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John Rosemond column


Knight of Ni

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I was reading John Rosemond's parenting column in the paper today. He was talking about how the mother of an 8th grade daughter who expressed desire to have sex with her boyfriend should react. Some of what he said made since. The part about a 14 year old not being ready for sex and the feeling and possible consequences of sex. He said that the mother should forbid the relationship and then explain her reasons to her daughter and talk to her about what the decision to have sex will involve. I personally thought that forbidding the relationship was taking it a little too far.

However, it was his last comment that I really didn't like. He said that the girl's father should sit down with the girl and explain to her how much it would mean to him to walk a virgin down the isle at her wedding and how much it would mean to her husband.

WTF!! It is not any man's business whether or not his adult daughter is a virgin and I don't really know of any men who would truly care if his future wife was a virgin. (The one's that are worth marrying anyway)

If find it frightening that a well known psychologist would be giving advice like that.

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I was reading John Rosemond's parenting column in the paper today. He was talking about how the mother of an 8th grade daughter who expressed desire to have sex with her boyfriend should react. Some of what he said made since. The part about a 14 year old not being ready for sex and the feeling and possible consequences of sex. He said that the mother should forbid the relationship and then explain her reasons to her daughter and talk to her about what the decision to have sex will involve. I personally thought that forbidding the relationship was taking it a little too far.

However, it was his last comment that I really didn't like. He said that the girl's father should sit down with the girl and explain to her how much it would mean to him to walk a virgin down the isle at her wedding and how much it would mean to her husband.

WTF!! It is not any man's business whether or not his adult daughter is a virgin and I don't really know of any men who would truly care if his future wife was a virgin. (The one's that are worth marrying anyway)

If find it frightening that a well known psychologist would be giving advice like that.

Is John Rosemond still around??? I thought people had figured out he was an idiot and abandoned him long ago.

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The local newspaper still publishes his weekly column. I read it just to see the craziness but this piece of advice is actually disturbing.

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At 14 I would probably forbid the relationship, especially if I thought the boy was pressuring her. Frankly, I think 14 is a little too young for serious dating. Forbidding anything too strongly does have it's risks for a parent, though.

In today's mainstream society, no one really expects to marry virgin. Sounds like the advice from Dad is meant to be just a load of bullshit to scare the girl into waiting until she's old enough to figure out it was just a load of bullshit.

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the worst thing you can do is ban it. that will make sure it happens big time. I agree it is young. bit it is hard to forbid it now and not cause it to happen.

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I feel like the horse is already out of the barn. A 14-year-old girl should have a lot of shit going on in her life to keep her busy, and I wonder if this girl *does* if she is so into a boy. In my house we don't even allow dating or dating behavior that young for either gender. I don't know if I would forbid the relationship, although I might have a secret talk with the boy's mother and maybe agree to keep the kids apart as much as possible. It sounds like some birth control might be in order, though.

Involving the dad, eeeww! This is something the mother and daughter can handle.

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The only girls my kids knew who were mom's before they were old enough to drive were the ones whose parent's swore up and down they didn't allow their kid to date and knew what their daughter was up to every minute of the day. So of course they didn't use birth control because they were too busy sneaking aroun

eta: Of course that doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea to keep young teens involved in activities and interested in the world around them etc... and most of them won't end up pregnant, or even sexually active before high school in any case -- but I would much prefer my 14 year old at least, at a minimum, knew how to get birth control quickly and safely.

And the virgin bride Dad conversation .... yuck.

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We're on our 5th teenager who was not allowed to date at 14 and no pregnancies so far. I do know where they for the great majority of the day, and I would not hesitate to offer birth control. I think 14 is way too early for this level of emotional attachment and that a 14 year old girl should be still discovering who they are, not how they fit into some boys' life.

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I agree that 14 is too young for a sexual relationship. I didn't used to think it was too young ( I was younger, most of the people I hung around with were in that age range and truthfully, I don't particularly regret it ) ... But I've seen that a too intense relationship can cause big problems emotionally for some teens .. both boys and girls, and of course sex adds a huge amount of intensity.

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The mother needs to get the girl some birth control NOW! I haven't read the letter but it sounds like the girl was honest. That is a good thing. I thought about sex at a early age so I don't think that the girl's desire is so unusual. Forbidding the relationship might not only increase the appeal but make the daughter less likely to talk to the mom in the future. I would make a rule that the two had to be chaperoned.

Why don't more people find it disturbing that fathers care what their adult daughters do with their vagina? Granted, this girl is only 14 but the writer is advicing the father to discuss what she will do in the future.

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I agree that 14 is a little young for sex, but prohibiting "dating behavior" at 14 sounds a little strict to me. I had my first kiss at 14 and I think that's pretty normal (unless that's not what you mean by "dating behavior").

John Rosemond is a DOUCHE! Oh my God, I hate that man. If you look at some of his books like "Parent Power," "The Six-Point Plan" and "A Family of Value" (most of which are available on Google books) it quickly becomes clear what an ass he is. He even looks like a douche.

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I agree that 14 is a little young for sex, but prohibiting "dating behavior" at 14 sounds a little strict to me. I had my first kiss at 14 and I think that's pretty normal (unless that's not what you mean by "dating behavior").

John Rosemond is a DOUCHE! Oh my God, I hate that man. If you look at some of his books like "Parent Power," "The Six-Point Plan" and "A Family of Value" (most of which are available on Google books) it quickly becomes clear what an ass he is. He even looks like a douche.

I agree that going down the "prohibiting/forbidding" road is rarely a productive one.

I realize this may not work for everybody, but I do believe it can if the groundwork is laid from toddlerhood. My response to these situations is communicate, communicate, and communicate some more. And thank the powers that be that you have a daughter (or son) who will come to you with that information. It means she is willing to talk, and shutting her down by saying, "Oh, absolutely not, and furthermore, I don't even want you seeing that boy again" is the opposite of what you want to accomplish. That seems like a surefire way to make sure they get it on.

Be willing to discuss it in the hypothetical. Find out what is driving her thoughts on this. Is she being pressured or are there social influences at work? Has she become aware of the strong sexual feelings she has and wants to act on them? What does giving up her virginity mean to her? What does she think it would mean to the boy? Why now and not two years (four years, whatever) from now? How would they plan to protect themselves? What if contraception would fail? Is this something she really wants, or is something else going on? What does she think the emotional implications would be for her? What if they break up next week or month - how will she feel then?

I know it all sounds cliche-ey, but this is just my experience. All I know is that none of our sons have engaged in having PIV or oral sex yet despite our being willing to entertain the notion or me putting a decorative jar full of condoms in their bathroom quite some time ago. Of course, that could change tomorrow, and that wouldn't be the end of the world, either ;)

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My husband and I raged about that column yesterday. The bit about the father was just super-squicky!

I have a younger sister who proves that if you are too heavy handed with kids, they will be sneaky and get into far worse trouble. Rosemond asserted that the girl wanted the mother to save her from the boy, but my guess is more along the lines that the girl is both demonstrating her independence and maybe seeking birth control.

I first had intercourse when I was 15 and engaged in oral sex when I was 14. The world didn't end. I'm almost 30 and have never been pregnant. Some kids can handle these things when they're younger. (I recognize that not everyone can, but I knew many sexually active teenagers who turned out just fine as adults.)

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I agree that you have to lay the framework. Also, I have just been lucky. :) My stepdaughter was really into sports and youth groups and school. I admit, I don't worry as much about the boys, just because they have all been so strong-willed that I don't really see them getting pressured into sex. Our policy is that we don't allow 'dating' as in going out as a pair without supervision until around 16, and no one has given me crap over it or seemed to fill stifled by it.

I don't think a dad needs to be involved in a girl's sex life AT ALL. And my husband agrees--he does not even want to know, he trusts me to handle periods and birth control and the whole shebang. We don't have any investment in keeping our daughters "pure"; I just want my girls to have a firm sense of who they are before they get in a serious relationship.

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There's no way my husband would sit down and tell our daughter how great it would be to "walk a virgin down the aisle" - um, ewww. My job as a parent isn't to keep them pure, but safe. 14 imo is too young for unsupervised dating, but I would still have a very honest talk with the girl with one possible outcome being a trip to the pharmacy for condoms and the doctor for the pill. I have a 14 y/o boy who so far shows no inclination to date/get laid (although I'm not sure he wouldn't pass up an opportunity) - we've had the "girls are people, not objects and don't catch a disease or a baby" talk well ahead of time in his case, I think. My 12 y/o boy might be another matter.

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My mom told me I wasn't allowed to have sex, but it was in a "tasteless humour" moment. When I got my period she told me "You're not allowed to have sex now" and I responded with "Now? You mean I could before?" and we both laughed. Suffice to say, I have no qualms talking sex with my parents. It was treated like every other possible topic.

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CanadianHippie-- I know you and your mom were joking around -- but I think there are a few girls who think it is okay to have sex BEFORE they get their period, because they think they can't get pregnant yet. So especially for a late bloomer who hasn't had her period by 13 or so... could be a bad situation all the way around.

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I don't think a dad needs to be involved in a girl's sex life AT ALL. And my husband agrees--he does not even want to know, he trusts me to handle periods and birth control and the whole shebang. We don't have any investment in keeping our daughters "pure"; I just want my girls to have a firm sense of who they are before they get in a serious relationship.

This :clap:

My DD and I talk about sex, her sex life, mine, the sex lives of others. There are times when I'm non sexual and shout TMI but its a momentary reaction. Although her father and I are divorced, the ground rules are we don't discuss LaSpawnetta's sex life with him. He knows the rule and has never broached the subject. I know that he is very uncomfortable meeting her lovers when she is in a relationship. Thats his problem though, and I usually know before they do when they are gonna get a chance at the jewel in the crown of the lotus.

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I agree that 14 is too young. Maybe a good time to talk about love, communication and not allowing anyone to pressure you into anything, at all?

On the dad issue, no, I don't think it's all right for a father to sit his daughter down to tell her about walking her down the aisle "intact". On the other hand, in my family, my dad was the one I went to for info. When I was a teen, my mum was a bit uptight, whereas my dad was a medical professional. He could explain biology to me calmly and rationally, without judgement. Having grown up with strict, Catholic parents, he wanted to protect us children, and decided it was best to arm us with knowledge. Part of that knowledge included knowing that we could ask him to buy us condoms, no questions asked.

I know this sounds weird to lots of people. For my dad, sex is a biological function, not a moral statement. To make it a little clearer: Whenever I talked to him about sex, it was in abstract, clinical terms, because I wanted and needed to know something. He always made it clear that he was concerned about my safety, first and foremost. As a teen, apart from getting theoretical knowledge, I thought it only made sense to ask him about guys and their emotions too, since he was one. Knowing that my dad respects my choices, has always been a good thing for me. He certainly didn't like every boyfriend I brought home, but I always knew that he trusted me to make choices that are good for me.

I appreciate the fact that my dad made me feel that it was all about me, the person, and not the state of my vagina. And I suppose that's where my beef lies. Telling your daughter how much it would mean to you, to walk her down the aisle a virgin, reduces her to the state of her hymen!

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Just to be clear, in my previous post, I wasn't saying that 14 year olds should be encouraged to have sex, or a parent should view it as no big deal. On the contrary. But in an in-depth discussion where the teen really opens up to the parent and they communicate on a level that demonstrates their respect for each other, the teen can hopefully be persuaded that later is better. And the more the teen owns it as her decision, the more likely she is to wait. Forbidding a relationship, in my experience, only makes the prospect of it all the more attractive to a teenager.

Dating much before the age of 16 is pretty impractical anyway, since most kids have to be at least 16 to drive (I realize that there exceptions with some states). In our experience, dating much before 16 was pretty much a non-issue, so we never had to make a "rule" about it.

I do think that when teens are busy with activities that are meaningful to them, there's a lot less time for these premature emotional attachments.

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To take a fourteen-year-old who feels close enough to her parents to tell them she wants to have sex and attempt to shut her up? How stupid is that? That kid should be able to talk to her parents about these things. The more factual information about sex I had the more it sounded like something I was totally not ready for as a teenager; I'm pretty sure being told "I am worried about the state of your genitals on the wedding day I assume will happen" would have grossed me out and convinced me I should never mention s-e-x to them again. My mom would have helped me get birth control if I'd needed it, which as it turned out I really didn't until I was legally an adult anyway, but she wouldn't have if I'd been too scared to go to her as I'd then be judged to be unclean!

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CanadianHippie-- I know you and your mom were joking around -- but I think there are a few girls who think it is okay to have sex BEFORE they get their period, because they think they can't get pregnant yet. So especially for a late bloomer who hasn't had her period by 13 or so... could be a bad situation all the way around.

That's why open and honest communication is important. We joked because we talk about sex and what can happen besides pregnancy.

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Canadian Hippie -- Oh I wasn't implying that it wasn't great that you and your mom could joke like that --that is great you had that good of communication.. it just reminded me of the rumors / half bits of info that kids often have and what they believe because of it.

One of my daughters is a very very open personality - and we joke about sex and she was open about her sex life from the beginning. Another daughter is a very private person and communication had to be more subtle .. when she was young we would often use teen tv shows as conversation starters.

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I think 14 is too young to have sexual relationships as well. At 14, dates are usually quite simple, i.e more friend like.

Also, I think one thing no one has said yet-14yos are minors and therefore cannot legally consent to sex. Why not tell the daughter that? Give her information and show her the pictures (those lovely std pics and pregnancy details don't look so hot and I bet would change her mind-at least for awhile ;) ) 14 yos are usually not even out of puberty and some have barely started. Not old enough to work or drive or anything. Too young. Yes, some people may be "mature" at 14, but that doesn't mean they should be sleeping with the first guy who comes along. I would have been mature enough to have moved out of my parent's home by the time I was 16 or so, but that doesn't mean I could or should have because I was not legally old enough to get a place of my own even though I could work so I waited until I was older (19) and had more firm work before leaving the nest. I feel the same with 14 yo's and sex. I knew a couple pregnant 14 yo's and no, none of them had parents who claimed to know who they were with or what they were doing. They had parent's who were uninvolved and/or troubled themselves.

As for dads being involved, it does not bother me per say, BUT and it's a big BUT, only when it's the facts and for information type of thing. Sometimes a daughter is more comfortable talking to their father because mom can't/won't. I remember a girl who's mom threw a book at her and told her not to get pregnant as "tha talk" regarding puberty and such. Her father took her out fishing and gave her a "real" talk-no virginity promise bs, but facts because mom wouldn't do it. My dad wanted nothing to do with it. My mom never was comfortable talking about anything. She just said don't have sex of any type-end of discussion. I never had a relationship so that didn't matter in high school. And I am glad I didn't now.

The whole daughter promising to stay a virgin to dad is so wierd to me. I cannot fathom my father asking that. :? Frankly, I don't think he gives a shiz about the state of hymen. He likely considers that none of his business because he does not want to know that sort of thing. Why would he? I don't butt into their [my parents] sex life and as an adult, they don't butt into mine. Unless I asked for their advice specifically. We like it that way. Though my mom does hint that she wants me to find someone to settle down with because she wants grandchildren someday-soon.

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