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Public schools are a lie.....


formergothardite

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....that the Marxist left want you to believe.

biblicalbeginnings.com/2010/03/happy-national-utopia-day-everybody.html

Another teenager who thinks he knows everything. He is also, not surprisingly, associated with God's Daughter, Miss Raquel. Some of his pearls of wisdom:

"Why are they marxist?" you ask? They are marxist because they were sent to public schools, run by the federal government. When someone owns a school, they have the inherent right to indoctrinate whoever goes there. The answer to this is don't go there! Public schools are a lie that the marxist left wants you to believe. "Everybody has a right to education, healthcare, jobs, and money!" I am here to tell you that that is not America's road.

America was a nation conceived in Liberty. It was founded by distinctly Christian men, with a Christian vision, to secure the rights of the people that they had fought for.

These people are just crazy. That is all.

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What is it with fundies and public schooling?

In Greece, we celebrate public schools because we have Patron Saints of Schools, one of our saints (from the ancient times) went to a Pagan school and learned everything from philosophy to religion to whatever else was taught at the time.

And why do they constantly use the words Marxist/Statist/Communist? Its depressingly boring and unimaginative, and very WWII/50s-ish

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Another one with the jumpy jumpy approach to blogging. From healthcare to the Ten Planks to Planned Parenthood to evil to public schools to...

It's sort of like his brain threw up on the page.

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what they sound like are the communists that were trained to say what they were told. They are so ignorant they don't realize they are the ones that have been indoctrinated with the party line. Plus I think they really want to go to public school and they can't so they have to attack.

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Another one with the jumpy jumpy approach to blogging. From healthcare to the Ten Planks to Planned Parenthood to evil to public schools to...

It's sort of like his brain threw up on the page.

After being forced to ingest certified bull shit, that is exactly what his brain did.

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America was a nation conceived in Liberty. It was founded by distinctly Christian men, with a Christian vision, to secure the rights of the people that they had fought for.

.

Yet another fool rewriting history to better suit their nutty agenda. Apparently, the Constitution is not taught in fundie school.

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This idiot is crazier than the usual. I mean, he links to the Bayly Brothers. And he thinks that America deserves to be destroyed.

I kind of laughed at his reaction to the OSU university bookstore. He went in there and thought that everything was too liberal. The only acceptable book, he thought, was Jane Austen! Who is actually rather feminist and antireligious, but doubtless he doesn't understand that...

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What is it with fundies and public schooling?

They're afraid everyone will find out they're crazy. It only takes one rebel in the family to sink the fundie boat.

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"Why are they marxist?" you ask? They are marxist because they were sent to public schools, run by the federal government.

Marxist? LOL. The United States has been so badly damaged by the nutter rampage that even some of your liberals - e.g., Obama - would be seen as right-of- center in other parts of the world.

When someone owns a school, they have the inherent right to indoctrinate whoever goes there.

The public pays the taxes. The public owns the schools.

And these schools don't have an "inherent right" to do shit. They have a mandate - a duty, and not merely a right - to teach facts. Some of those facts will be routed through the teachers' biases, which might be right or left or something else, but the biases represent a bug, not a feature.

The answer to this is don't go there! Public schools are a lie that the marxist left wants you to believe.

(Homeschool hasn't been this kid's friend. He's sloppy in how he presents his "arguments," and his knowledge of history leaves something to be desired.)

"Everybody has a right to education, healthcare, jobs, and money!" I am here to tell you that that is not America's road.

Nope, it sure isn't - not if people like you have your way: You and your asshole buddies are doing your level best to make sure America ends up worse than some third-world shit-hole, taking it down a barbarous path of inhumanity, destruction, and death that goes against everything your founders stood for. You don't realize that because you're an ignorant, brain-washed child.

Be sure to thank your nutty parents.

America was a nation conceived in Liberty. It was founded by distinctly Christian men, with a Christian vision, to secure the rights of the people that they had fought fo.

I guess "liberty" in your world means that kids are free to starve and soldiers are free to torture people and bankers are free to continue ass-raping the national and global economies with impunity.

You have the freedom to shut up. I wish to God you and your moron friends would use it before you start yet another war or cause the dreaded “double dip†for the global economy.

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Honestly, I went to public school and teachers mainly consisted of 68ers. I don't have any experience being homeschooled though, it's illegal in Germany, (or in private school, for that matter), so I have no comparison.

While I was always one to speak my mind, I found school pretty damn indoctrinating sometimes and one-sided.

BUT. May the public school teachers not always be the best, at least all children are provided with (somewhat) equal chances. Whereas homeschooling, I am positive there are people that do a great job, but I am just as positive there are enough people (read: fundies) who suck at it and prevent their kids from any chance of getting a further education.

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Don't recall much indoctrination except that in History they painted too rosy a picture of the Founding Fathers. It would have been more interesting if they'd thrown in a little dirt. I'd give my teachers mixed reviews. Some clearly loved what they did, some were obviously burned out, and some just weren't very good at it. The ones who liked their jobs were also better at getting us interested too.

Her Maj is in a Spanish Immersion program at our local elementary. Only one private school in Houston offers a similar program and it costs at least 15K a year. We're thrilled the opportunity is there for her.

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I didn't realize Oregon had crazy people too. We just need to stick all the crazies in one place and let them have at it and see how well the crap they spout works out in reality.

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Public school is a baseline. Clearly, educating our children has become less and less of a priority and the baseline has fallen. I don't think that many parents believe that the public schools give their children the best possible education. they do believe that the public schools provide the basic tools for children to become educated.

I personally believe that education should be a higher priority for our society. As taxpayers, we need to be more vocal and more demanding of this. The quailty of the next generation is paramount to the future of our society. That said, parents need to be involved in their children's education. Whether a family sends their child to public school, private school or home school (or any conbination thereof), parents are obligated to be involved.

There are many great home school parents. The best of them know when it is time to either get a better teacher for certain subjects or even send their children to the public sector for certain subjects. Private and public school parents need to be aware of what is being taught and what the conditions are in the schools so that they can augment/intervene/reinforce/ give dissenting arguments/make adjustments in their child's education.

Again, why does it all need to be so "all or none". Your children deserve the best that you can find for your children. Trust me, they grow up very fast. Take the time to pay attention and your child can thrive in any and all educational venues.

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"Why are they marxist?" you ask? They are marxist because they were sent to public schools, run by the federal government.

Wow, I'm a marxist, and I never knew. I mean, I MUST be, I went to public school for all 13 years! I'm not sure I even learned what Marxism was in my public school education, maybe there was a blurb about it in a high school history class.

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The above poster brings up an interesting point. I moved to a school distrcit where parents care deeply about their child's education, and we all pay a premium in taxes for it. We also volunteer consistently in the schools, and contribute time and talents to the community. There are going to be communities where most families have households where both parents must work, or there is only one parent. What do we do about those schools? Charter schools seem like a good start, but what else? I don't know, just asking.

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Public school is a baseline. Clearly, educating our children has become less and less of a priority and the baseline has fallen. I don't think that many parents believe that the public schools give their children the best possible education. they do believe that the public schools provide the basic tools for children to become educated.

I personally believe that education should be a higher priority for our society. As taxpayers, we need to be more vocal and more demanding of this. The quailty of the next generation is paramount to the future of our society. That said, parents need to be involved in their children's education. Whether a family sends their child to public school, private school or home school (or any conbination thereof), parents are obligated to be involved.

The truth is that the public school system was/is only meant to do so much. They are structured to handle the education of children, but yet they end up having to do all of the things that are clearly in the domain of the family, but many parents have no time or interest in doing. Parents are first and foremost responsible for their children's education, which many parents get, but many, many don't.

I would like to say to those parents: schools are not there to raise your kids for you and be the be-all, end-all for your child's complete education, and they are not there for you to fling the blame against when your child isn't learning all of life's lessons (many of which you are supposed to be teaching). Children spend about 14% of the time in school from birth to age 18 - so what is going on the other 86% of the time? Doesn't it make sense that that huge percentage of time has much more influence over a child's life than school ever can?

Fundies with their indoctrination bullshit crack me up. Yeah, it's public schools, with the incredible diversity in teachers and students, who are pushing an agenda onto kids, NOT the fundie homeschoolers who tell the kid they're going to hell if they don't follow their party line. Right. :roll:

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The above poster brings up an interesting point. I moved to a school distrcit where parents care deeply about their child's education, and we all pay a premium in taxes for it. We also volunteer consistently in the schools, and contribute time and talents to the community. There are going to be communities where most families have households where both parents must work, or there is only one parent. What do we do about those schools? Charter schools seem like a good start, but what else? I don't know, just asking.

I was a full time working mom throughout my children's formative years. I admit that I had more financial security than most people, but I have seen single mothers who worked full time at less lucrative jobs do the same things that I did. It is hard work. It is very hard work. Maneuvering into a good school district is a big help. There are often surprisingly affordable units in very good districts if you are willing to give up a little bit of space in return for the better programs in education. It is also effective to partner with other interested parents whose time/money/other resources are limited in other ways. I did a lot of picking up from after school activities and events because other parents did the transportation at the end of the school day when I was not available. I also kept groups of children at my home to play in return for the times that my child needed care from another parent. There are lots of ways to barter resources if you are creative and interested. It also makes raising your children (and the rest of the village children) much more rewarding and interesting.

I am totally in favor of putting public money and resources into improving out public school system. However, it will never be enough. Groups of parents also need to take it upon themselves to participate. Sometimes giving one afternoon or evening to the local children for any activity, whether it be just playing and having a meal or something more classically educational can open a world of opportunity to your own children. Too many people spend that 3 or 4 hours complaining about the system instead of participating in the greater good.

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I think one of the things we could do is create a national school system. Have a national curriculum (which would make the tests a better assessment), national uniform, etc. Just witnessing the confusion on the Chatter grading thread makes me think that things are too local. Americans cannot even tell a European what school a certain grade would be in. I think things usually go more smoothly where there is a system. I read a book about the Japanese school system, and they are totally organized, which is why they are getting a better product with less money. They also have (imo) a superior teacher training system, but the uniformity of schools definitely contributes to that.

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I too have long wondered why the US has no national curriculum. The interesting thing to me is, all the endless handwringing articles in the paper about how this country or that country is doing better than the US, what can we do, tend to gloss over the fact that in a lot of those countries, schools are all funded equally from the state (not this system of wildly varying property taxes that we have here in Illinois), there is a national curriculum, teacher education is standardized by examination, and teaching is regarded as a high status occupation.

I went to Japanese schools myself, long ago though, things have changed somewhat since I went (there's no longer school on Saturday, for one thing). Of course, there the fact that part of the reason for school is indoctrination is not viewed as a bad thing - schools are there to give all kids some common formative experiences and teach people how to get along and govern themselves in a group (often with less teacher intervention than in the US). Some of the changes are for the better now, they realize there is more diversity for one thing.

Weird thing is, despite all the "ZOMG Marxist indoctrination!!!" rants from people on the right in the US, in the next breath half of those people will start ranting about immigrants and how they need to assimilate and all the rest of it. Well guess where that happens? Schools. So they DO want some indoctrination happening, they just don't like what's on the menu. Lots of them fetishize old textbooks, which were plenty full of indoctrination, but didn't have pesky things like diversity - the old books just assume all the kids are from middle class white Christian homes with a stay at home mother.

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The above poster brings up an interesting point. I moved to a school distrcit where parents care deeply about their child's education, and we all pay a premium in taxes for it. We also volunteer consistently in the schools, and contribute time and talents to the community. There are going to be communities where most families have households where both parents must work, or there is only one parent. What do we do about those schools? Charter schools seem like a good start, but what else? I don't know, just asking.

Warning: rant ahead

Charter schools are a terrible "start". My husband taught for 35 years in the public schools system, then retired and took a teaching position with the largest charter school company(and yes, they are for-profit) in the nation, so my opinion is not based on just one school. Overall,they do a terrible job and many of them have the test scores to prove it. Some of them seem to be doing all right test score wise, but I can't even tell you the machinations and manipulations they go through to get those test scores up. "Teaching to the test" does not begin to cover it - and it has very little to do with actually educating children. Everything - and I do mean everything - is about the bottom line ($$$). My husband's school is 60% ESL (600 students total in the school) and they have one ESL teacher. One. She sucks, but she is certified in ESL. But actually, most of the time she is subbing for other teachers out sick or whatever because they have no sub pool. How often do you think those ESL kids get serviced?

They also have one Special Education teacher. One. It is the same situation with her. She is young, inexperienced, and pretty incompetent, and subs constantly instead of being available to provide services. Every time my husband tries to refer obviously learning disabled student to her, the administration pushes back on him and ask him to verify more, document more, "prove" it. We've figured out that the administration plays this pushback game pretty effectively all through the school year, and the teacher keeps trying to push them to provide services, and they just say "document more" and then the school year is over and the kid moves on and then next year's teacher starts all over and goes through the same dance. Meanwhile, this child never gets serviced.

They hire young, inexperienced teachers largely, because those are the only ones who are willing to take the starting salaries offered ($28K on average which is pretty difficult as most newly-graduated teachers have significant school debt) and it is very true that you get what you pay for. My husband is probably the only teacher in the building who is >30. Haivng almost all newbies is a terrible idea. Firstly, they are terrified of being fired, for good reason. They also have no union to back them up, so they cannot say anything when the company (administrators) refuse to service students in need or create environments where education is nearly impossible (35 kids packed in a classroom meant for 24).

Secondly, teaching is a craft that takes years to hone. In a normal school situation, there may be a few new teachers every year, but they are counseled and mentored and backed up by experienced, veteran teachers. There are dozens of reasons why a school full of inexperienced teachers is a bad idea.

Basically, how these charter school companies make their money is they buy old school buildings, supermarkets, etc. and then they lease them to the sponsoring charter. We're talking about buildings that have sat empty for years that the corporation buys for a song and then the corporation leases the buildings to themselves (for all intents and purposes) for $500K a year or more. It's largely a money-making game through the manipulation and leveraging of real estate.

The school also pays 10% of its operating budget to the corporation, which is another several hundred thousand dollars. This money must be paid, even if it means having 50 students in a class and no ESL or LD service. Doesn't matter to corporate. Send the $$$.

Google "St. Louis Post Dispatch charter schools" for a whole series of articles they have done exposing all of this and the corrupt people behind this.

In my husband's particular school, at the beginning of this school year, they laid off several teachers, combined classes to the point of having up to 35 students in a single classroom, and fired the librarian. They asked teachers to take paycuts to help "save" their fellow teachers' jobs. Fast forward to this week, in a schoolwide meeting, where they bragged about having an $80K overage that they will be "forced" to spend by the end of the year as required by the corporation (they can make a profit and pay a profit to the corporation, but the individual school cannot "show" a profit). Recently the administrative staff got new laptops and new iPhones (they had been using Blackberries, poor things), but wanted "advice" on how to make sure they spend this money. This money could be used, at the rates they pay salaries, to employ nearly three more teachers (another ESL and another Spec. Ed. teacher, for instance), but they are not interested in doing that.

Meanwhile, my husband and all of his colleagues copy everything they need from a single book because the school refuses to buy a classroom set and often, they end up paying for the copy paper, too!

The sad thing is that many parents of charter school kids are low-income, socioeconomically disadvantaged, non-English speaking. They think their children are attending "private school" because the children wear uniforms (well, a certain color polo shirt & khakis) and it's not their neighborhood school. They think their children are getting educated.

The irony of it is that my husband's school is actually located in his old public school district, which has been given an rating of "Excellent" from the Department of Education, yet these parents choose to send their kids to this money-making factory.

So, no, charter schools are not the answer.

/rant

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