Liberty University Will Allow Concealed Firearms On Campus

[dawn9476]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/1 ... um=twitter

::SMH::

[longskirts]

Doesn't bother me. Most states allow concealed carry now and haven't seen increases in their crime rates. The people who follow the laws and register to carry are not the ones you need to worry about, IMO.

[treemom]

Oh my not quite alma mater...you are so crazy.

[atheistjd]

I love this. You cannot watch an R-rated movie, but you can CARRY A DEADLY WEAPON. What is wrong with these people. :angry-banghead:

[helloemi]

My husbands alma mater/ex-employer / alma-mater and employer of brother in law... I have heard enough odd stories about this place to not be shocked by anything I hear...

*shudder* Jerry Jr. even looks like a pompous asshole and the whole Liberty legal council thing gives me the heeby jeebies... As long as the money is coming from the right people....

[jenny_islander]

What does fondling a John Wayne fantasy prop have to do with learning about God? Oh, right, tribalism again. This is the Campus of the Tribe of Rugged Individualists Who Think Guns Are Magic Wands of Scaring Bad Guys.

I wonder if they realize that shooting at somebody, even a Bad Guy, always brings the cops and the cops will not automatically recognize the Good Guys because their White Hats are not actually visible . . . ?

[Jessica]

Doesn't bother me. Most states allow concealed carry now and haven't seen increases in their crime rates. The people who follow the laws and register to carry are not the ones you need to worry about, IMO.

Yeah that.

[gustava]

Yeah that.

Tell that to Gabby Gifford.

[debrand]

Why is there such an air of forced masculinity and extreme individualism among some American Christians? It's like an entire generation of American Christians decided to play cowboy.

What worries me about the young people at Liberty University is that there are a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalist with a persecution complex. Instead of turning the cheek, like Jesus taught, they seem eager to prove their toughness. That type of mindset combined with guns isn't a good thing.

[Jessica]

Tell that to Gabby Gifford.

Wouldn't it have been great if some of the teachers at Columbine had been armed so they could gun down Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and prevent 13 innocent people from dying and 24 more from being injured?

[helloemi]

What worries me about the young people at Liberty University is that there are a lot of evangelicals and fundamentalist with a persecution complex. Instead of turning the cheek, like Jesus taught, they seem eager to prove their toughness. That type of mindset combined with guns isn't a good thing.

I agree 100%. I can't tell you how many time I have heard about how Christians are the most hated group and we have to engage in spiritual war fare. Yes there are sane people to come out of that school... My now very liberal Christian anti-Right wing husband... but having to explain to my brother in law why we do not have the right to march into Tibet and try to convert the peaceful happy Buddhists just makes my brain hurt.

I like that... persecution complex... :-) I may have to steal that for my next family gathering.

[gustava]

Wouldn't it have been great if some of the teachers at Columbine had been armed so they could gun down Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and prevent 13 innocent people from dying and 24 more from being injured?

You're evading my point, but I'll address yours. As a former teacher, I ask how you are so positive that my having a gun would have prevented the actions of Harris and Klebold.

[Extricated]

Tell that to Gabby Gifford.

Someone intent on killing isn't going to worry about the legalities of obtaining a permit. Arguments like that just don't hold up.

[CanadianHippie]

You're evading my point, but I'll address yours. As a former teacher, I ask how you are so positive that my having a gun would have prevented the actions of Harris and Klebold.

That side of things is fuzzy. Harris or Klebold getting a hold of a teachers gun, not so much. A teacher losing it and pulling said gun on a student, even less so. Guns in schools scare me, even when they are on police officers. That's just my opinion though, living in a country where teens aren't so feared.

Guns on University Campuses are less frightening, but only because feel less stressed about police having guns there.

[StarrieEyedKat]

This bothers me a lot less than my state's (Ohio) recent law that allows people to carry firearms into bars. :angry-banghead:

The biggest WTF about Liberty is the fact that students are treated as children in pretty much every other way.

[Jessica]

Maybe if someone had had a gun they would have been brave enough to fire back at Harris & Klebold so instead of running around throwing molatov cocktails and shooting random students that got in their path, they'd be dead or else injured enough to not hurt/kill anyone else.

As for Gabby Giffords, Arizona should have stricter gun laws and more thorough background checks. The freak purchased the gun legally after an instant background check, despite the fact that, according to Wikipedia, "From February to September 2010, while a student at Pima Community College, Loughner had five contacts with college police for classroom and library disruptions" and "During Loughner's time at Pima, a teacher and a classmate both said they thought he might commit a school shooting." Why didn't any of that show up on the background check?

[gustava]

Someone intent on killing isn't going to worry about the legalities of obtaining a permit. Arguments like that just don't hold up.

Confused as to which argument you are referring to. Please clarify. Thanks.

[luckylibrarian]

Like Kat, I'm more alarmed by Ohio's passage of a law allowing people to carry guns in bars. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

I work at a very small, rural college. We just went through "active shooter" training a few weeks ago. It was terrifying, mostly because the message was that if something happens, we're on our own until campus police can get there. In the time between an incident starts and campus police arrives, there could be a dozen people shot. If something ever happens in our library, we have nowhere to hide or escape. We're sitting ducks, and we're screwed. As much as I would like to say that it will never happen here, in the past few years there have been several incidents that almost escalated to a full-blown Virginia Tech-type situation. Last spring we had a member of a fraternity attempt to commit a multiple stabbing at a frat party. When he was kicked out, he promised to come back with a 9 mm. He would have done it - they found guns in his dorm room.

I definitely can understand the arguments against allowing concealed carry on campus. At the same time, I am not opposed to a limited number of faculty and administration being issued CCW permits after going through rigorous mental health screening and training. I would not support students carrying guns, nor would I support certain employees carrying. For example, if an assistant professor is going through the tenure process and under an intense amount of stress, that is the last person I want to have a gun, especially if tenure is denied. If someone has been with the university for a number of years and has job security and a strong connection to the campus community, I would trust them.

[Extricated]

Confused as to which argument you are referring to. Please clarify. Thanks.

Yours, that somehow not allowing registered carrying would stop tragedies like Gabby Gifford's shooting.

I live where concealed carry permits are nearly to impossible to get. The crime rate is very high and the guns used are usually not legal because the intensive criminal and medical (mental health) background checks and yearly qualifications required would exclude most of the criminals.

If you aren't comfortable with guns obviously you don't have to ever touch one but I don't see a problem with responsible law abiding citizens carrying them.

[CanadianHippie]

Yours, that somehow not allowing registered carrying would stop tragedies like Gabby Gifford's shooting.

I live where concealed carry permits are nearly to impossible to get. The crime rate is very high and the guns used are usually not legal because the intensive criminal and medical (mental health) background checks and yearly qualifications required would exclude most of the criminals.

If you aren't comfortable with guns obviously you don't have to ever touch one but I don't see a problem with responsible law abiding citizens carrying them.

Well I live in a place where you can't just wander around with a gun in your pocket. The rate of violent crime involving guns (including homicide) is about 2%. The only way you can get a permit to carry a gun is if you are in danger for your life, and even then it's hard to get.

[Extricated]

Our violent crime rate hovers around 10% The concealed carry permits sound similar to yours. To apply for the permit someone must have violated a restraining order to try to kill the applicant and provide written or recorded proof that the person(s) will attempt it again in a public space where police and private protection are not present. With all of that a hearing is granted and the applicant may or may not be given a permit.

The criminal and mental health background checks, yearly qualification, firearm safety, and legal knowledge tests are required to own a firearm. I have no problem with any of those requirements. IIRC the mental health check keeps legal ownership away from anyone who has been seen or treated for thoughts of harm to themselves even if their treatment is successful. The criminal check disallows any assault, domestic disturbance, or felony convicts from legal ownership. Any gun owner that refuses to qualify each year can be brought up on illegal possession charges.

ETA a bit.

[gustava]

I taught on a college campus with 15,000 students and at least 20 buildings spread over many acres. I don't CCW, nor do my students. Student in my class goes nuts with rifle. What happens? Should I be required to CCW??

"Florida’s CCW system had, just in the first half of 2006, licensed more than 1,400 individuals who had pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 individuals with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions against them, and six registered sex offenders."

[Austin]

This bothers me a lot less than my state's (Ohio) recent law that allows people to carry firearms into bars. :angry-banghead:

I know, right? WTF is wrong with our state? Oh, I know - Ka-suck, to begin with.

[NurseNell]

I've gone from being very anti firearms to realizing when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. So many crimes are committed by those who do not have a license to own or carry a weapon. However, I do agree allowing concealed firearms in bars is an accident waiting to happen, over and over again. Not sure why a college campus would want people carrying concealed weapons either.

[Kitten]

Wouldn't it have been great if some of the teachers at Columbine had been armed so they could gun down Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and prevent 13 innocent people from dying and 24 more from being injured?

Better yet, wouldn't it have been great if the children who harrassed and bullied these boys for years had treated them with kindness instead? Wouldn't it be great if we had universal health coverage so that people with mental issues could get proper treatment, regardless of their financial circumstances? Wouldn't it be great if we all learned to resolve and accept our differences through discussion and exchange of ideas instead of thinking that you can simply get an arsenal and "blow away" the people you don't like? Saying more guns are the solution to a situation like this scares the shit out of me, because then it becomes too easy to escalate every confrontation into a death battle.

I won't excuse anyone who uses violence to solve whatever issues or crises they face in their lives, but I think making weaponry readily accessible to everyone (and let's face it, Harris and Klebold were not using Daddy's deer hunting rifle), combined with the sense of persecution they felt and their warped perception that they had the "right" to kill people in return were all contributing factors to a disaster that could probably have not been averted.

We also don't know what COULD have happened if other people had been armed. Maybe MORE people would have died if Harris and Klebold had been shot at. Unlike TV, in reality, it's hard to hit a moving target, and if someone had shot at them without killing them or disabling them, it might have resulted in even more shootings in retaliation. Not only that, but most normal people will hesitate before shooting another person, no matter how well-trained they are in the use of their firearm, while a deranged shooter has no such compunction. Of course, if they knew that concealed weapons were on campus, they might have used bombs instead. Easy enough to get that information online, too.

Guns against guns - that's a fallacious argument, because you have no idea what WOULD have happened in different circumstances.