Christianity Today Reviews Hillary's "Quivering Daughters"

[Brainsample]

christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/juneweb-only/quiveringwithfear.html?start=1

It is beautiful, too.

It even makes note of Stacy McD's dedicated blog which trashes the book, merely proving Hillary's thesis about patriarchy and how QDs are treated.

Wow!

Some days you get the bear uh..

Some days you get the chicken, and some days, he gets you. (?? Salmonella. ?? Why is there no bear emoticon?)

:animals-chickencatch:

[acutexenophobia]

This seems like a very interesting read. I may have to look for it the next time I'm at a bookstore. Thanks for sharing!

[Brainsample]

This seems like a very interesting read. I may have to look for it the next time I'm at a bookstore. Thanks for sharing!

You will have to special order it through them if you do.

Better to order via Amazon or Barnes and Noble. And please be forgiving. I wrote the afterword, but there are weird typos in it and I don't know where they came from. There's one sentence at the end of a paragraph of all places that's a mess and looks just stupid. I have no idea what I did or what happened???

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[Wolfie]

I found this on the webpage too, looks like they may have changed a bit over time... www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/november12/3.48.html

[sableduck]

I found this on the webpage too, looks like they may have changed a bit over time... http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... /3.48.html

Plus, the authors--Sam and Bethany Torode--have since recanted the entire quiverfull lifestyle after 4 kids in 5 years, and divorced.

[Brainsample]

Someone just wrote to me this morning to note that Internet Monk started discussing the review in CT, too:

internetmonk.com/archive/follow-up-post-quivering-daughters

Haven't read it yet -- busy day ahead.

[Burris]

Someone just wrote to me this morning to note that Internet Monk started discussing the review in CT, too:

internetmonk.com/archive/follow-up-post-quivering-daughters

Haven't read it yet -- busy day ahead.

I went over there and posted the following comment:

Patriocentric parachurch organizations, such as the National Center for Family-Integrated churches, which sees age-segregated church programs as a pernicious evil; Vision Forum, which sells its legalistic and idolatrous version of man-worship through slick catalogues and marketing campaigns; and Above Rubies, which is an anti-feminist organization run by Nancy Campbell all have similar ideas about how to “reform†Christianity. (In other words, Bill Gothard’s ATI organization isn’t even close to the only one.)

Most of these parachurch organizations are also either interconnected or at least on friendly terms, such that they trade media and sell each other’s products.

The first two organizations I’ve mentioned are also Christian Reconstructionist, and so they’re not shy about grooming boys for the purpose of infiltrating secular government and using stealth tactics to erode the wall of separation between church and state (with the ultimate goal of developing what they call a “theonomyâ€). And if they can’t achieve their theonomy here, yet, then they’re perfectly happy to influence laws in more tractable nations such as Uganda.

It all sounds so far-fetched, and yet it’s not: Katheryne Joyce, the freelance journalist who wrote “Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement,†has seen developed several well-researched articles – e.g., at Slate and AlterNet – on the phenomenon as well.

These organizations encourage an insular, anti-intellectual, fear-based worldview that causes some families to eschew not only higher education but modern medicine as well, which has led to the frightening (and very real) phenomenon of what Fox 59 dubbed “Unassisted Bathtub Birth.†(I’m not just talking about home birth, here, but about unassisted home birth where some adherents won’t even work with midwives.)

Yes, that’s dangerous, but women’s lives just aren’t that important in the grant scheme of things: For example, Doug Phillips, the president of Vision Forum, has spoken out against ending *ectopic* pregnancies and refer s to the life-saving procedure as ‘elective abortion.’ (Saving the lives of women isn’t nearly as important as hoping for a statistically impossible miracle birth.)

The entire movement (often embraced by the supposedly Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches) is one big, interconnected, incestuous, nepotic, money-hungry mess that talks about ‘family autonomy’ as a reason for homeschooling even while encouraging the use of membership oaths in some affiliated churches that require heads-of-house to recognize the higher authority of pastors and elders. (And yet when it comes to reporting abuse and militating against it, these elders don’t often use that authority to punish men. This was the case when 15-year old Tina Anderson was impregnated by an older, married man named Ernest Willis. Anderson was made to apologize for getting pregnant and was then exiled, while Willis stayed on at church. Charges of statutory rape weren’t even considered by the pastor or governing body at her IFB church.)

These cults have a body count, as well, in large part because some of the leading parachurch organizations (and their IFB followers) promote books – e.g., “To Train Up a Child,†by Michael and Debi Pearl – that suggest hitting even infants with a rod. (That’s how eight-year-old Lydia Schatz died: Her adoptive parents used the recommended PVC pipe on her with such vigor that her organs failed. They nearly killed her 11-year-old sister, Zoriah, in the same fashion.)

What I wrote above is merely a really abridged, capsule view of this sub-culture. I’m glad to see more people finally taking it seriously. It’s a real evil, and needs to be brought into the light.

[Lewis]

LOVED your comment, Burris.

[raineymott]

I was just going to post on this article! Did you see our very own darling Stacy McGothel commented? Lol

[Wolfie]

Plus, the authors--Sam and Bethany Torode--have since recanted the entire quiverfull lifestyle after 4 kids in 5 years, and divorced.

Yes. It would be nice if there was some way for them to post something about the divorce as an addendum.

[Brainsample]

I found out from someone that James McDonald, husband of Stacy McDonald, is somewhere on Facebook putting up posts that claim that his wife was misquoted or something.

Typical damage control. But if Stacy and Generation Cedar chick had not done damage control regarding Hillary's book in the first place, Jim wouldn't have to do it now. Maybe they'll threaten to sue Christianity Today like they threatened me and several others and sent cease and desist letters to homeschooling moms to shut them up about their history and to claim that we had no right to an opinion about their doctrine.

[Brainsample]

Burris,

I love you!

[Austin]

I found out from someone that James McDonald, husband of Stacy McDonald, is somewhere on Facebook putting up posts that claim that his wife was misquoted or something.

Typical damage control. But if Stacy and Generation Cedar chick had not done damage control regarding Hillary's book in the first place, Jim wouldn't have to do it now. Maybe they'll threaten to sue Christianity Today like they threatened me and several others and sent cease and desist letters to homeschooling moms to shut them up about their history and to claim that we had no right to an opinion about their doctrine.

OMG, the McDonalds are always looking to sue somebody! I can't conceive of the mental gymnastics they must engage in to get around the biblical exhortation not to sue other Christians.

Ack. I can't stand Stacy McDonald. At all.

[Guest Anonymous]

OMG, the McDonalds are always looking to sue somebody! I can't conceive of the mental gymnastics they must engage in to get around the biblical exhortation not to sue other Christians.

Ack. I can't stand Stacy McDonald. At all.

This! Oh, and welcome back Austin, you've been missed.

[Austin]

This! Oh, and welcome back Austin, you've been missed.

Thanks, Sj - it's nice to be missed, and it's always nice to get home again even after a great vacation :) .

[Deleted05]

Get 'em, Burris.

[Brainsample]

Thanks, Sj - it's nice to be missed, and it's always nice to get home again even after a great vacation :) .

Yay, Austin!

[Brainsample]

Stacy's now over on the Christianity Today site posting damage control comments. They are ridiculous.

[Austin]

Stacy's now over on the Christianity Today site posting damage control comments. They are ridiculous.

She is so ridiculous not to mention full of crap. Lewis has called her out with some specifics, but she appears to be deliberately not addressing him. I'm sure she and the vaunted James are trying to figure out a way to sue him and all of her other detractors (just a joke - I hope not, Lewis!)

[raineymott]

Plus she is manipulating the ratings by rating EVERY time she leaves a comment.

[kb2]

Wow, being called to task by an entire group of people that are obviously religiously devout--that must really sting.

[ladypuglover]

The reviews are gone :shock:

But I found this tidbit in the article

We have never heard a Christian parent say, "You know, I really regret having that fifth child" or "I wish I hadn't had any children at all." We have only heard regrets from those who chose not to have more children, and sorrow from those who are physically unable to have any. We have read many stories from Christian couples who gave up artificial contraception—none regret it.

Well my one Christian sister who loves her children very, very much says if she had to do it all over again she would never marry or have children. She says it with such honesty that I have no choice but to believe her. I know many other Christians who say the same type of things. Again, parenthood isn't something for everyone or is it a good idea for everyone one to have large families. Some are much better parents to one or two children than they could be to 5-15 children. Some rare women can be wonderful mothers to 15 kids but I doubt most could handle it a positive way.

[MamaJunebug]

Burris,

I love you!

I love you both and really think that Burris' essay, above, should be on the home page of a blog somewhere. It outlines the situation excellently.

Good to see Austin here, too!

ETA this quote from "Christianity Today." I love the quote because it sums up why I'm here on FJ and speaking out IRL when I can:

For patriocentricity isn't just another quaint evangelical fad. Whenever legalism and idolatry are taught in Christ's name—and Quivering Daughters makes a strong case that this is what's happening—Christians need to call it what it is: bad theology leading to harmful beliefs and practices. If our calling, as Christ told us, is to serve "the least of these my brethren," then we must speak for those who have been rendered voiceless, not only by members of other religions, but by members of our own as well.

I added the emphasis.

[bea]

Anybody see Stacey McDonald's response to this? http://yoursacredcallingdotcom/blog/201 ... ght-focus/

"I believe this book tears down and divides the Body of Christ. Not only that, but, it places an additional burden on true victims of abuse and encourages them to focus on the past, and agonize over the sins of those who have offended them. Either concern should be troubling to Christians."

But she won't name the book, of course. I can't stand that woman.

[Austin]

Anybody see Stacey McDonald's response to this? http://yoursacredcallingdotcom/blog/201 ... ght-focus/

"I believe this book tears down and divides the Body of Christ. Not only that, but, it places an additional burden on true victims of abuse and encourages them to focus on the past, and agonize over the sins of those who have offended them. Either concern should be troubling to Christians."

But she won't name the book, of course. I can't stand that woman.

Wow, now she won't even mention "the book". Wouldn't want to even give "the book" even bad press. She says,

The following paragraphs came from part of a response I received from a woman who took issue with my critique of a particular book, a book I’d prefer not to publicize by mentioning its name (as you know, bad press is better than no press). I believe this book tears down and divides the Body of Christ. Not only that, but, it places an additional burden on true victims of abuse and encourages them to focus on the past, and agonize over the sins of those who have offended them.

So it is a burden for "true abuse victims" to focus on what happened to them? Well, of course. Much better to just pretend anything unpleasant or unseemly never occurred. Denial is apparently a virtue to the mean-to-the-bone Stacy McDonald.

She is nothing more than a mean girl who uses threats of legal action to get her way on every single thing.