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Tennessee Secession Sesquicentennial (there's a mouthful)


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I don't think I could sit still for their version of history and their god's choices and wrath in the midst of wars between men. I'm kind of dumbfounded by the number of fundies who claim to be historians. Is there a connection I am missing?

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I haven't found any pictures with any other Botkins. It seems like something they would be into.

I wonder what Jasmine thinks of stuff like this. (Though she is FAR more of a confederate apologist than one would expect a smart young AA woman to be.)

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I never understood why so many of the fundies we follow around FJ seem to be slavery apologists....I guess to acknowledge that slavery is an evil taint in our history would go against their very idea that we are on a downward moral slide. Plus, it means admitting our Founding Fathers weren't all paragons of virtue.

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I never understood why so many of the fundies we follow around FJ seem to be slavery apologists....I guess to acknowledge that slavery is an evil taint in our history would go against their very idea that we are on a downward moral slide. Plus, it means admitting our Founding Fathers weren't all paragons of virtue.

Well slavery is in the Bible. If you're obeying the Old Testament and filling your quiver then you should probably be keeping slaves too*.

*In addition to the slaves gained every time a girl arrow is added to said quiver.

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In my previous fundie life, we were told that slavery was ok. Race-based slavery was *not* ok, but ridding oneself of debt by becoming a slave was totally ok, supported by the Bible, and in no way immoral, according that belief system. Basically, it wouldn't be ok to kidnap a black person off the street and make him your slave, but it would be ok say he was in debt to you and thus owed you his labor (I know, big distinction there :roll: ).

There was also the belief that the plantation-system of slavery (such as in Gone with the Wind) was really a figment of the imagination/creation of abolitionists, and that most slave owners were good dudes who were kind to their slaves ("kind" being defined as "didn't beat" which is not quite the same thing).

I was about 14ish when I read Cry,the Beloved Country and it dawned on me that owning another human being was immoral at its core. Blew my mind - in a good way.

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There was also the belief that the plantation-system of slavery (such as in Gone with the Wind) was really a figment of the imagination/creation of abolitionists, and that most slave owners were good dudes who were kind to their slaves ("kind" being defined as "didn't beat" which is not quite the same thing).

My head just asploded.

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Topaz, you beat me to it - difference in Biblical slavery was that the slaves, IIRC, were conquered peoples who could blend in with the dominant culture and were not necessarily destined for slavery in perpetuity. I could be totally off but I don't think so.

Certainly any VF-admiring SAHD family would deny that their daughters are taught to serve for only the benefits of shelter, food and clothing, but the blindfold and grooming exercises at VF's dad/daughter camp sure looks like training in a submissiveness that will lead to other slave-y things like having no vote, no property ownership and no self-determination.

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These bios are fantastic. They got a bunch of people that are "really into" the Civil War.

Bill Potter, as a consummate historian and avid bibliophile, brings a wealth of experience and knowledge to each of his lectures. Although best known for his teaching in military history, 's Guide to the Historical Adventures of G.A. Henty. Bill Potter is also the lecturer of the best-selling Providential Battles: Twenty Battles that Changed the World CD album. He is the Historian and Curator of The Circa History Guild in Roswell, Georgia and the staff historian of The Vision Forum. With a personal library in excess of 4,000 antiquated hardbacks and a background as a top Ph.D. candidate in history at the College of William and Mary, Bill has earned a well-deserved reputation as a man gifted in communicating the story of God's providential hand in American history. As a homeschooling father of eight children, he appreciates the necessity of passing on to the succeeding generations the richness of both our regional and national history. He and his wife Leslie live in Alpharetta, Georgia.

Really? A candidate for a PHD? Is that something people usually crow about when proving their bona fides?

As a second-generation Egyptian American, David has an usual level of gratitude for the God-given freedoms that Americans still enjoy. The War Between the States has fascinated him since childhood. At age 10, he used to roam around the house recounting to his sisters the daring exploits of General So-and-So or Captain Such-and-Such.

Sounds like an unimpeachable expert to me.

David Botkin has been fascinated by military history all his life. Passionate about Biblical Law, the defense of the weak, and the upholding of justice, he has spoken at several historical events, and is currently teaching a course on the Biblical philosophy of war and conflict...and co-manages the video production company First Pacific Media.

Again...WTF?

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In their description:

"Held in conjunction with the city's annual Burning of the Courthouse Reenactment, the Tennessee Secession Sesquicentennial will return to original sources and first hand accounts to take a closer look into the important issues, events and figures that played a key role in the War Between the States and seek to understand and learn from our past history through a Biblical worldview.?"

Note, that ? is in there, I did not add it. Apparently, they are also thinking "WTF?"

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Also, on the Circa website Bill Potter lists himself as having a "PhD (abd)". According to my husband (who has a PhD), this means "all but done" but is usually used AS A JOKE. In other words, no one would list that as their real credentials. You either have it, or you don't.

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I read those bios and my first thought was those kids aren't old enough to have formed coherent opinions on anything current much less historical. Another VF fraud coming down the pipes.

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Also, on the Circa website Bill Potter lists himself as having a "PhD (abd)". According to my husband (who has a PhD), this means "all but done" but is usually used AS A JOKE. In other words, no one would list that as their real credentials. You either have it, or you don't.

Well, I'm ABD (also known as all but dissertation; i.e., you've got one major hurdle left), and I would make a note of it if I were applying for any sort of work where that mattered. But I sure as heck wouldn't put a PhD after my name! Ever!

(Hi, new here, and thrilled to have found this board. My fascination with these cults is my major distraction from my dissertation! :mrgreen:)

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Yeah, he was putting it on the web as his credential on a speaking engagement! Applying for a job in your field is one thing (esp. when you have a graduation date), but this is another thing entirely. Wonder if he will finish or not?

BTW, checked out Linden, TN. It doesn't appear to have any relevance in the war. The town was founded in 1850, so it was new, and nothing much happened there. It's a primarily white, poor town of around 1,000 people.

And daharyn, good luck with your dissertation!

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Are they going to be resurrecting the dead? Because I'm pretty sure all of the witnesses to the Civil War are dead. I know they mean historical documents of first hand accounts, but it reads like their going to be actually speaking with Confederate soldiers.

I'm also surprised they didn't refer to it as the war of northern aggression. War of the states sounds to me like each state fighting individually. Why can't they call it the Civil War? I don't understand what is wrong with that title? Can someone explain to this Yankee girl why that gets these southern men's panties in a bunch?

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Does anyone else think it's kind of funny that they always go on and on about how academic credentials don't mean much, but then they go and make a big deal about this guy being "a top PhD candidate"? I mean, I can appreciate the hard work that goes into working towards a PhD, but the dude didn't get one. And wasn't there talk on the old board about him, about how PhD candidates aren't formally ranked?

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Does anyone else think it's kind of funny that they always go on and on about how academic credentials don't mean much, but then they go and make a big deal about this guy being "a top PhD candidate"? I mean, I can appreciate the hard work that goes into working towards a PhD, but the dude didn't get one. And wasn't there talk on the old board about him, about how PhD candidates aren't formally ranked?

Exactly. College is a waste of your time, pointless, and doesn't really prove anything. But if one of them has a degree (especially an advanced degree) we'll be sure to hear about it, no matter what college it came from.

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Exactly. College is a waste of your time, pointless, and doesn't really prove anything. But if one of them has a degree (especially an advanced degree) we'll be sure to hear about it, no matter what college it came from.

You know, if Doug Phillips or Geoffrey Botkin were ever offered an honorary doctorate, I can't help but think that they'd be all over that. They both seem like they'd have no qualms about putting Dr. in front of their names. I could be wrong, but that's the impression that I get.

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You know, if Doug Phillips or Geoffrey Botkin were ever offered an honorary doctorate, I can't help but think that they'd be all over that. They both seem like they'd have no qualms about putting Dr. in front of their names. I could be wrong, but that's the impression that I get.

Oh, I have no doubt about it. It baffles me sometimes that their followers don't point out the hypocrisy. If college is teh ebul, why not renounce your titles (I'm looking at you Dr. Baucham) and set an example to us all?

I also wonder how they will milk on this in the future, if there will be a College Minus type Ph.D. program sometime. We've already seen them relenting a little on the "college is pointless" idea. And let's face it, people like to follow leaders with credentials (no matter how dubious.) It wouldn't surprise me if Botkin or Phillips came up with some "Ph.D" to confer upon one of their sons. Because if the lowly wimmenz can get Ph.Ds in homemaking by sweeping and cooking and embroidering a few hand towels, surely the manlymen can get a Ph.D in something like... anaconda hunting.

ETA: riffle

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Also, on the Circa website Bill Potter lists himself as having a "PhD (abd)". According to my husband (who has a PhD), this means "all but done" but is usually used AS A JOKE. In other words, no one would list that as their real credentials. You either have it, or you don't.

Part of me really wants to email this to William and Mary to see what they think of this guy crowing about his unfinished doctorate as a credential.

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Part of me really wants to email this to William and Mary to see what they think of this guy crowing about his unfinished doctorate as a credential.

DO EET! DO EET! Send it to the history department for sure.

Ob Subject: this is a rant.

I can't understand why these people are glorifying the sesquicentennial of Tennessee's secession from the Union. This was part of a f*cking war, where 600,000 people died as a result. My ancestors (mixed-race freed African-American/Native American supporters of the Union) were burned out of their home in Arkansas and had to walk 150 miles to Fort Smith in the winter of 1863 for protection.

These asshats think slavery is Just Fine and they think war is Glorious. I'm here to tell you, no, they're not Just Fine and Glorious, they're Wrong and Evil. And they can kiss my fat, white, female, never-married, well-educated, cat lady ass.

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In my previous fundie life, we were told that slavery was ok. Race-based slavery was *not* ok, but ridding oneself of debt by becoming a slave was totally ok, supported by the Bible, and in no way immoral, according that belief system. Basically, it wouldn't be ok to kidnap a black person off the street and make him your slave, but it would be ok say he was in debt to you and thus owed you his labor (I know, big distinction there :roll: ).

There was also the belief that the plantation-system of slavery (such as in Gone with the Wind) was really a figment of the imagination/creation of abolitionists, and that most slave owners were good dudes who were kind to their slaves ("kind" being defined as "didn't beat" which is not quite the same thing).

I was about 14ish when I read Cry,the Beloved Country and it dawned on me that owning another human being was immoral at its core. Blew my mind - in a good way.

Help me understand something...

These Calvinists believe in following Old Testament law. Up till the point that they ascribe to the idea of a bondsman or -woman selling themselves into slavery to repair a debt.

Do these people also believe in leaving the corners of their fields to the poor? To attaching tassles to the corners of their four-cornered garments? To not lighting fire or carrying on the Sabbath? To avoiding taboo foods such as pork, rabbit and sea-food? To abstaining from leaven during the week of Passover? To celebrating the Day of Atonement?

And the list could go on.

I thought that Christ came to abrogate or replace the law. Help me understand how they see 'Biblical law'. And that probably includes stoning homosexuals and adulterers and God knows what? :shifty:

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