Confrontation on the National Mall

[Dandruff]

A teen from a Catholic high school and a Native American elder came face-to-face on the National Mall amidst demonstrations that were being held there.  Initial video showed the Elder using his drum while the teen stood directly in front of him, smiling, with his eyes locked on the Elder.  The teen was surrounded by dozens of classmates, at least several of whom could be seen laughing.  The Elder claimed that he was trying to defuse a situation between the teens and another group, had his path blocked, and had been disrespected by the teens.  The teen who was standing in front of him claimed that he had every right to remain where he was, had shown no disrespect, and that the Elder was the one who approached him.  The video went viral, with early feedback weighing largely against the teens.  Subsequent footage showing the Elder approaching the teen, and a statement by the teen (whose family hired a PR firm over the incident), led to greater support for him and his classmates.

Some of the Catholic high school group were wearing MAGA caps.  President Trump has defended the teens.  The matter is continuing to receive considerable coverage by the media, with some strong opinions being expressed on both sides.

I'd like to know what the chaperones were doing while all this was going on.

The teen who was standing in front of the Elder will be on the Today show later this morning.

Thoughts, FJ?

[AmazonGrace]

An all-male, damn near all-white,  school group of privileged kids goes to a churchified misogyny rally wearing maga hats and causing trouble and gets rewarded for it.

I expect them to become future Supreme Court justices.

[Ali]

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I'd like to know what the chaperones were doing while all this was going on.

I would like to know this too. 

Why did adults think it was appropriate to bring a group of minors to a rally in D.C. in this political climate?

Why did the adults not tell them to leave the red hats at home or on the bus?

Why did none of the adults anticipate potential conflicts with all of the groups protesting there that weekend and have a discussion with the students about how they should behave?

Why did none of the adults intervene when things got heated?

Why did none of the adults realize that the group should move to an alternate location to meet the bus?

 

[fraurosena]

And why is the MSM interviewing that Covington brat and not the Elder? That really bothers me. Those racist idiots should not be validated by getting any airtime whatsoever.

[AmazonGrace]

I expect it's because the kids' parents have employed a Republican crisis management PR firm.

[fraurosena]

What.the.fuck.?!

 

[fraurosena]

They are such sweet and innocent boys, with such good upbringing, and it shows.

 

[mamallama]

@fraurosena, Mr. Phillips has been interviewed on CBS.  I don't know about NBC.

[fraurosena]

I wonder why they were invited to the WH. Any ideas? Oh, wait...

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Since the Covington brats were in DC to protest abortion, I agree with this:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[precious blessing]

It's not surprising to me that some dumbasses thought it was a great idea to bring some stupid kids to a prolife rally (March of Life?) as I attended Catholic high school several years ago and we always had groups of students attending. Gross.

In an interview the Covington kid gave, he said something like "It's not my opinion that I was being offensive." I wish he had someone in his life to explain to him that he doesn't get to decide whether he was offending someone or not.

Nice of the Black Hebrew Israelites to make such a good impression on this already... questionable kid. "We were insulted by the African-American protesters" blah blah blah. I get it, they're disgusting, but they're just African Americans protesters to you? They're a hate-group... I know he's a kid, but I think he should be able to distinguish a hate-group from protesters. They might as well been Black Lives Matter activists for all he cares.

If anyone's curious about the Black Hebrew Israelites, there's a show on Vice called "Hate Thy Neighbor" which covers different hate groups. It's pretty interesting IMO.

[GreyhoundFan]

[fraurosena]

14 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

 

It's scary how alike those two are. Not in looks, but in aspect. The same self-serving, self-satisfied superior smirk, that seems to be the trademark of these religious supremacist brainwashing institutions. They are dredges of society. Rich, entitled stuck-up shit-for-nothing dredges. Shit-stains that contribute nothing but hate and ugliness.

Gah! They make me want to puke.

[AmazonGrace]

It's just economic anxiety 

Racism as a bonding ritual, nice

[candygirl200413]

Have you guys seen the hashtag I think it is about what students who went to surrounding schools (boys and girls included) on how much shit they had to deal with from these Convington boys? The school is an entire racist, sexist, homophobic hateful place.

[Drala]

My ex-husband was an alumnus of Covington Catholic.  I know that local culture quite well.  Lots of unexamined patriarchal assumptions--the people are clannish and insular--lots of "good" Catholic Christian people who don't know what they don't know but think they know.  I can totally see how the kids would interpret wearing blackface as showing school spirit.  They aren't malicious, they're ignorant and stubborn.  The Covington Catholic community is made up largely of families descended from German and Irish immigrants who moved into the area in the early 20th century.  There's more German than Irish in the community, which implies a conservative, almost reactionary, character to their Catholicism.  (This would explain their homophobia, among other things.)  Covington Catholic used to draw more working class kids into its orbit, but it's always had a prep school vibe.  There's a huge focus on athletics in that community.

Back in the day (long before the turn of the 21st century), Catholic school kids would never have been allowed to wear MAGA hats or show off partisan affiliation at a school-sponsored Right-to-Life march.  They are supposed to represent the church, which is officially nonpartisan.  It's amazing to me how little awareness and reflection the adults representing Covington Catholic have given the provocative nature of allowing the kids to wear MAGA hats.  They are basically ignorant and stubborn people, but not consciously, overtly racist, because after all, the Church teaches racism is a sin, and they're good people who abide by the rules.  So why not allow kids in MAGA hats respond to Black Israelite provocation with "positive" school spirit chants?  What could go wrong with that?  

I've been fascinated by the confrontation on the national mall because it seems like such a major cross-cultural clusterfuck--there are so many angles to the story.  To a certain degree, I see kids from a culture with which I am extremely familiar being rambunctious and obnoxious teenage boys.  Problem is, if they were  black teenage boys being similarly rambunctious and obnoxious, they might have gotten shot or arrested.  God only knows what happens to native american teens when they get frisky.  White privilege is a social reality about which the Covington Catholic boys don't know that they don't know,  They may be white, but they're also the descendants of papist immigrants who had to deal with a specific set of acculturation issues associated with professing to catholicism in a predominantly protestant country.  They may be privileged, but they aren't coming out of the dominant ango-saxon and scots-irish protestant culture of white privilege.   No one has taught them how to interact cross-culturally, because why would they need to know about that, living as they do in the insular cocoon of their particular immigrant culture?  There are no native american tribes/reservations in the region, so there's no immediate social pressure to teach these kids about native american culture and issues.

Please don't interpret my comments about these kids as intended to excuse their behavior.  Like I said, they're basically ignorant and stubborn.  They are not, however, racist in the way my scots-irish protestant relatives who descended from Alabama slave owners and native american land-stealing farmers are racist.  To some extent, Covington's Catholics don't see themselves as having anything to do with the nation's history of slavery and native american disenfranchisment.  They got off the boat after all that had gone down.  I seriously doubt they're taught the history of Jim Crow at Covington Catholic, although the Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati area certainly has a history of Red Lining that could be taught & reflected on in their (Catholic) social justice lesson plans.  The Diocese of Covington is nothing if not reactionary, so I doubt that's going to happen.  I hope this event leads to some consciousness raising in that community, but I'm not holding my breath.  

[mamallama]

I keep reimagining this encounter with a bunch of Newark teens on a school trip, a handfull of neo-nazi's and a mainline Protestant minister and few church ladies singing hymns.  It would be amazing to see how that was perceived.

 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Drala said:

They are not, however, racist in the way my scots-irish protestant relatives who descended from Alabama slave owners and native american land-stealing farmers are racist.  To some extent, Covington's Catholics don't see themselves as having anything to do with the nation's history of slavery and native american disenfranchisment.  They got off the boat after all that had gone down. 

None of the racist ever think they are like the "real" racists. All of them have reasons that they don't see themselves as having to do with the racism of the past. These guys are really no different than the racists whose ancestors were slave owners. They aren't special in their racism, just average young, white, privileged, smug racists who of course don't think they are racist. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

I wondered when this would show up on FJ...

It sounds like the chaperones for the teenagers let them loose with no supervision and no advice to avoid interacting with counter-protesters, based on all the reports of their behavior before and during the incident. Of course, there's also the possibility that they didn't intervene as a method of tacit approval, which I don't think I can entirely rule out, unfortunately.

Either way, the whole thing is disgusting. The teens were so secure in their own self-righteousness they decided to take on an apparent hate group, got in over their heads, and when another party decided to intervene to distract and calm both groups they mocked him instead of thanking him for getting them from potentially getting their butts handed to them on a platter or involved with police for creating a disturbance. And when that's the kindest interpretation, kids, you done screwed up majorly.

And I can't give them the kindest interpretation, with the school's apparent history of bigotry and their own behavior that day. If they're getting criticism and they and the school feel judged, they deserve it.

[Drala]

21 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

None of the racist ever think they are like the "real" racists. All of them have reasons that they don't see themselves as having to do with the racism of the past. These guys are really no different than the racists whose ancestors were slave owners. They aren't special in their racism, just average young, white, privileged, smug racists who of course don't think they are racist. 

Many of my family members are quite consciously, overtly racist.  They proudly show evidence of slave ownership by various ancestors and have no problem referencing "nigras" as inferior.  They'll do this privately among family and friends.  Publicly, they put on a face of racial tolerance.  I think this is different than the mostly unconscious racism of people descended from folks who came to this country after the Civil & Indian wars and who have lived in predominantly white, Eurocentric immigrant communities ever since.   As a point of reference re: racism, they have no history of promoting Jim Crow laws or pushing native american onto reservations.  For this reason, they have trouble seeing how their unexamined attitudes and historical ignorance contribute to their engagement in culturally and racially insensitive behavior.  

[formergothardite]

11 minutes ago, Drala said:

As a point of reference re: racism, they have no history of promoting Jim Crow laws or pushing native american onto reservations.  For this reason, they have trouble seeing how their unexamined attitudes and historical ignorance contribute to their engagement in culturally and racially insensitive behavior.  

I see your point here, but living in the South all my life I'm surrounded by people who are racist in this exact same way. They aren't the open racist, they are the ones whose history lessons imply that the Civil War was about state rights and who will tell you their families never owned slaves. Their families never pushed Native Americans off their lands. Hey, many of them didn't even come here till after the Civil War!  They don't see how slavery and systematic racism applies to their lives because to them that is something they never participated in. But they are racist just the same. Just like those guys.

Those guys don't have some special racism where they do racist stuff on accident. They are average white rich racist who do average white racist acts and almost certainly have intention of learning anything about their white privilege. 

Some people want the school to expel them, but the school helped create this situation and it would be a lot better for them to just admit the school fucked up in teaching about compassion, racism and common decency and then make all of the students spend the rest of their time there learning about their white privilege. 

There is another video of another student screaming about how it isn't really rape if she likes it, which shows that these are the nothing more than future guys who will think women owe them sex and minorities are nothing but someone to be mocked and looked down on. This sounds like a super shitty school. 

 

[Drala]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

This sounds like a super shitty school. 

Despite my attempt to be even-handed in my assessment of the local culture, I am no fan of the Diocese of Covington or the school.  My impression of the Catholic men and boys in the community is that they are, for the most part, misogynistic pricks.  Like I said, my ex husband is a Covington Catholic alumnus.  After 22 years with him, I decided to come out as a radical lesbian feminist.  I've chilled out somewhat in the intervening 20-odd years since the divorce--I'm not so quick to brandish the long knives of a verbal castration when I run into evidence of patriarchal oppression.   In comparison to racism, I have a much bigger beef with US Catholic culture on the issue of sexism and homophobia.  The internalized homophobia of the clergy is absolutely crazy-making.  

[formergothardite]

It sounds like the entire local culture is just racist, if this is the norm for beliefs. 

We have two videos of the kids being racists and one video of them downplaying rape, can you imagine the racism and sexism they don't put on video?!