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Pro-Life but Pro-Death penalty


Curious

Question

How do the folks that are rabidly pro-embryo/fetus reconcile being pro death penalty and not caring about children after they are born.  We often see families that have eleventy kids, but refuse any kind of govt help even though they could obviously use it badly.  They often go on about how bad single mothers are, but they don't want to help those women keep their babies with resources.

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This is somewhat complicated. Believers of this sort, whether Calvinist or not, are heavily influenced by a kind of Calvinist cum capitalist vision that's associated with certain ideas of America as well. "Self-reliance" is valued (well, and relying on God). If the families go through hardships, that can be sent from God to test them, can build character, etc. Relying on the state for aid risks making the state into an "idol," which is also a justification they use for rejecting welfare. I have a Storify story on that:

https://storify.com/C_Stroop/why-conservative-christians-reject-universal-healt

As for the death penalty, the fundamentalist ethos is pretty punitive. If the death penalty is imposed in their view "justly," that's quite a different thing from abortion. An unborn child is as innocent as anyone can be in this dark view (there's still original sin, of course). But someone receiving the death penalty has, in this view, brought that punishment on themselves. They don't see themselves as usurping God's role in that regard. 

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I'm going to ask here since you touched on it above.  What's the deal with making things "idols."  We follow a family where the Patriarch no longer lets his wife have Pepsi because she was making an idol of it.   He made one of his kids switch instruments because he was making an idol of that.  This is a very "anti-fun" family.   We see it in other families to a somewhat lesser extent, but it's a big deal for this guy.  He also won't let his 32? (someone correct me if I'm wrong) go places without a sibling chaperone.   He hasn't married off any of his girls yet, but has married several boys.  They all live within a mile of each other.  It's a very insular family.

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That's a more extreme version of fundamentalist ideology than anything I grew up with, but we had the fear of "idolatry" too. Basically, it refers to anything that you may put before God, that may therefore interfere with your relationship with God. This way of thinking is very abusive. If you enjoy something too much, then maybe it will end up being "God's will" for you to give it up just to prove a point. This god, after all, is a jealous god. You owe him total devotion, and your self should be totally dissolved in him. The level of self-erasure is truly frightening, even though it starts from a potentially good impulse toward limiting selfishness and helping others. It just gets twisted beyond all recognition in this version of "dying to the self."

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We call the patriarch "Stevehova" because he's definitely making up his own rules and can't be wrong about anything.  They are probably one of the most depressing families we follow because their idea of fun is going to preach at a nursing home (captive audience, after all).   We follow a few people that seem to want to write their own rules/bibles.

The horror and walking on eggshells all the time has to be horrible for the children, of which there are many.  A lot of people we follow are quiverfull.

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4 minutes ago, Curious said:

We call the patriarch "Stevehova" because he's definitely making up his own rules and can't be wrong about anything.  They are probably one of the most depressing families we follow because their idea of fun is going to preach at a nursing home (captive audience, after all).   We follow a few people that seem to want to write their own rules/bibles.

The horror and walking on eggshells all the time has to be horrible for the children, of which there are many.  A lot of people we follow are quiverfull.

I think I'm going to need to get more up to speed on everything you're doing here and be around at least now and again. I may not have the energy to be very active in terms of posting, but I'm glad to be connected. Your efforts to monitor fundamentalist activity are very important. Thanks for doing it. 

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Just a warning Dr. Stroop, we can be quite snarky and foulmouthed around here. I just don't want you to be surprised by us. :pb_lol:

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27 minutes ago, Curious said:

I'm going to ask here since you touched on it above.  What's the deal with making things "idols."  We follow a family where the Patriarch no longer lets his wife have Pepsi because she was making an idol of it.   He made one of his kids switch instruments because he was making an idol of that.  This is a very "anti-fun" family.   We see it in other families to a somewhat lesser extent, but it's a big deal for this guy.  He also won't let his 32? (someone correct me if I'm wrong) go places without a sibling chaperone.   He hasn't married off any of his girls yet, but has married several boys.  They all live within a mile of each other.  It's a very insular family.

She turned 35 last week.

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2 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

Just a warning Dr. Stroop, we can be quite snarky and foulmouthed around here. I just don't want you to be surprised by us. :pb_lol:

Yes, we have many "uppity" womenfolk here.  We get the odd patriarch come in and try to tell us (manspailn) how we are doing it wrong.  They tend to leave in a huff when we expect them to answer with more than "the bible."

This is the family I was referencing http://www.freejinger.org/forum/260-maxhell/

 

1 minute ago, Bethella said:

She turned 35 last week.

aww Poor Sarah.  I am behind on so many families due to spending much of the last 2 years in hospitals and SNF.  At least she has her puppy (now dog) for her spinsterhood :(

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