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upkacrane

Can we please talk about Michael Bunker for a minute?

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Tired
upkacrane

This is an appeal to the FJ intelligentsia. I've looked for threads on Michael Bunker (agrarian Biblical patriarch and Sci-Fi author extraordinaire-NOT) and couldn't find anything on him except for six o so references to him on other threads. But I'm dying to discuss this bloke and I'd love your perspective on the following conundrum. To put it the American way:

What is the effing deal with this guy?????????

Too general of a question? Don't worry: I've got plenty more.

Have you read any of his Amish Sci-Fi novels? Have you noticed that the more Amish he and his slaves acolytes community look, the less religious his discourse sounds? Have you heard that his eldest daughter Tracy (blogging at The Yellow Rose of Texas- http://processdriven.blogspot.com.es/)  is betrothed to an Amish (?) young man and is going to live a la Naugler in Arkansas as soon as she gets married? Do you know anything about the reasons why her first betrothal was broken? Have you ever read his wife's blog? Or any of his followers's? One of my gateway fundies was Kris Ante, who used to blog at Country Kitchen (or something like that) before she and her family fled the Bunker compound. Does somebody know what happened? Have you read the anti-Bunker blog Exposing the Michael Bunker Cult (https://michaelbunkercult.wordpress.com/)? What do you make of it? Were the Ranchfests just an excuse to have people build stuff for him for free? Have you watched any of Bunker's Q&A videos on You Tube? Any of his radio shows? Is he a 'legit' fundie or a psycho? Or both, like Michael Pearl? And why on earth would Bunker delete years and years worth of blogging when he moved from his original wordpress blog to his new, outrageously 'worldy' website (http://www.michaelbunker.com/)? To remove any traces of his religious radicalism? Does anybody have any pics/screenshots from his original blog? Did you use to read it? I'm kicking myself for not saving anything on the wayback machine.

Pleasepleasepleaseplease can we talk about him? I'd be buying you drinks in exchange, if I could...this'll have to do:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::my_biggrin:

 

 

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NachosFlandersStyle

Funny, I recently ran across this guy and had been wondering what FJ thinks. I went to the daughter's Facebook page and she is already married-- no public details but she's not wearing anything amish-related in the photos. I can't really get a read on Michael's religious teachings, but he definitely comes off as grandiose and narcissistic online.

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Ruviana

I signed up for FJ to comment on the Nauglers but I've been following some of Michael Bunker, or rather some of his followers too.  I'm hardly intelligentsia, I'm brand new, but I've been following Nourishing Days, a couple who moved to to Michael Bunker's "community" in 2011 and began homesteading.  Us Naugler-ites find them a great example of actually how to be agrarian homesteaders, no matter how you feel about their beliefs.  The community seems to have adopted "plain" dress, it's a requirement for the community, and Bunker's ideas about Christianity include very basic subsistence-level farming as commanded by god.  The Nourishing Days people don't talk too much about their faith, but they do appear to follow his beliefs.  Stewart (the dad) recently did a post on how he has decided to repudiate heliocentrism because it goes against the Bible.   They're friends with some other participants who blog at Sifford Sojournal.  They seem similar but waaaay more religious, of the "the Lord graciously granted us all the cement we went to get at the big box store."  Uhhh, okay.  I don't follow them particularly, they are incredibly hardcore, but also work very hard.  People in this community seem to be the anti-Nauglers. 

Edited by Ruviana
Riffles and typos

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Tired
upkacrane
33 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Funny, I recently ran across this guy and had been wondering what FJ thinks. I went to the daughter's Facebook page and she is already married-- no public details but she's not wearing anything amish-related in the photos. I can't really get a read on Michael's religious teachings, but he definitely comes off as grandiose and narcissistic online.

WHAT?!? Seriously? What's her FB profile name? I figured she must have got married by now but...no amish/plain clothes?  Colour me shocked! Maybe she has managed to escape the fundie madness. It's just that she mentioned she was marrying her best friend's brother and she had often spoken of very close Amish friends that she would often visit somewhere out of state. So, I deduced her best friend was Amish and so must have been her brother...

32 minutes ago, Ruviana said:

I signed up for FJ to comment on the Nauglers but I've been following some of Michael Bunker, or rather some of his followers too.  I'm hardly intelligentsia, I'm brand new, but I've been following Nourishing Days, a couple who moved to to Michael Bunker's "community" in 2011 and began homesteading.  Us Naugler-ites find them a great example of actually how to be agrarian homesteaders, no matter how you feel about their beliefs.  The community seems to have adopted "plain" dress, it's a requirement for the community, and Bunker's ideas about Christianity include very basic subsistence-level farming as commanded by god.  The Nourishing Days people don't talk too much about their faith, but they do appear to follow his beliefs.  Stewart (the dad) recently did a post on how he has decided to repudiate heliocentrism because it goes against the Bible.   They're friends with some other participants who blog at Sifford Sojournal.  They seem similar but waaaay more religious, of the "the Lord graciously granted us all the cement we went to get at the big box store."  Uhhh, okay.  I don't follow them particularly, they are incredibly hardcore, but also work very hard.  People in this community seem to be the anti-Nauglers. 

Nourishing Days, huh? Off to check their blog. Thank you so much for the tip ;) I'm familiar with the Siffords..gosh, they're reaaaally up on the fundie spectrum!

Wait...did you just say that the Nourishing Days people now believe the Earth is at the centre of the universe??????????? :56247953c05d2_32(6)::56247958035f1_32(18)::56247958035f1_32(18)::56247958035f1_32(18):

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NachosFlandersStyle

Her last name is O'Neil now.

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Gossamer1
5 hours ago, upkacrane said:

Have you read any of his Amish Sci-Fi novels?

OMG! I must know more! I can't even begin to imagine what an Amish Sci Fi story would encompass. 

Edited by Gossamer1
Edited to add that I just downloaded Pennsylvania1 onto my Kindle. I'm terrible at book reviews but I'll post something when I'm done.

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snickerz

The Antes were one of my gateway fundies as well, they used to blog as anteagrarians, I liked them and could NOT figure out what the hell they were doing with that psycho Michael Bunker.  I'm not sure exactly what happened, but they left suddenly, went back to Iowa? and went fundy-lite! Their boys go to school and do sports, they had 3 more kids, and Kris wears cute clothes & hair & makeup (good riddance to the headcoverings and long skirts!)  Kris used to have a decorating blog (ourthriftynestofsix.blogspot.com/) but now she's into a MLM (Visi) and that's ALLLLLL she posts on facebook.

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Nervous
CyborgKin

I too am interested to learn what 'Amish sci-fi' entails.

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Tired
upkacrane
13 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Her last name is O'Neil now.

Found her. A million thanks! I'm very pleasantly surprised. In the weeks before her wedding she was still dressing faux-Amish, I think. Of course, back then she was still under the headship of her pater familias. Do you think Daddy Bunker is happy that she is going fundie-lite? What infuriates me is how excellent Bunker is at milking the Amish brand and making people believe they are not making things up as they go. 7 years ago they were certainly agrarian, but there was no trace of anything remotely looking Amish. Long flowy, patterned skirts and bandana-style headcoverings for the women, and the men used to wear jeans and t-shirts. Now I see even his daughter Jennifer has a cover photo on her FB profile in which she is wearing modern-looking, albeit modest, clothes. But Bunker's FB profile has never been more consistently "Amish". Is the community becoming less ultr-fundie? In this video of his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdrV8LkU-dE

he openly admits (minute 1:15) he is "breaking the rules" because the community ordnung specifies no t-shirts. But of course, the patriarch can do as he likes, right? Aaaaarghh! He is so full of it!  The whole dressing-plain philosophy is about not drawing attention to one's looks and material wealth, it's all about fighting against vanity, right? Have you seen all the selfies he has posted on FB??? He has photoshopped pics of of his bearded majesty on gigantic screens and larger-than-life posters, for crying out loud!

13 hours ago, Gossamer1 said:

OMG! I must know more! I can't even begin to imagine what an Amish Sci Fi story would encompass. 

Please do! I've read three quarters of the Pennsylvania Omnibus and I'd love to hear what you think of it.

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Tired
upkacrane
7 hours ago, snickerz said:

The Antes were one of my gateway fundies as well, they used to blog as anteagrarians, I liked them and could NOT figure out what the hell they were doing with that psycho Michael Bunker.  I'm not sure exactly what happened, but they left suddenly, went back to Iowa? and went fundy-lite! Their boys go to school and do sports, they had 3 more kids, and Kris wears cute clothes & hair & makeup (good riddance to the headcoverings and long skirts!)  Kris used to have a decorating blog (ourthriftynestofsix.blogspot.com/) but now she's into a MLM (Visi) and that's ALLLLLL she posts on facebook.

Wow, I just went and checked her FB. Go, Kris! I was actually a bit sad when she took down her blog. But oh boy am I glad they chose to leg it from the compound. The Exposing Michael Bunker's Cult decribes some very disturbing things going on there. Someone somewhere here on FJ said everything came to a head because Logan had displeased Bunker the Supreme Leader, who then retaliated by not letting Logan have access to a well or something like that, but don't quote me on that. I must go see if I can find the poster who wrote about it.

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Ruviana
On 8/9/2016 at 7:06 PM, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Found the blog post Ruviana mentioned and holy moly, this one is a trip. Warning: very long, and about 37 kinds of crazy.

nourishingdays.com/the-creation-preconceived-ideas-and-the-oldest-lie/

 

Yep, that's the one.  Stewart is generally more the "theological" of the two while Shannon posts on all kinds of homemaking stuff.  The weird thing is they both are college eduated.  She has a bachelor's degree in CHEMISTRY!!!!!  (His is in Business Administration.)  Makes me completely crazy.

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Black Aliss
17 minutes ago, BobTheWalrus said:

AMISH SCI FI

:pb_lol::pb_lol::pb_lol::pb_lol::pb_lol:

:huh:

People talking on telephones and driving around in cars?

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Howl
On 8/9/2016 at 6:06 PM, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Found the blog post Ruviana mentioned and holy moly, this one is a trip. Warning: very long, and about 37 kinds of crazy.

nourishingdays.com/the-creation-preconceived-ideas-and-the-oldest-lie/

Yeah, when he started questioning the heliocentric view of the earth, I knew exactly what was coming.  He must be right!  He has spent 10 MONTHS thinking about this.   Of course, 10 months of fundy research time and reflection is > a lifetime of scientific research or even entire bodies of scientific research, because Genesis and of course, him.   

Oh, and this? 

Quote

I’ve found that often what is called “science” isn’t.  And “science” as we commonly refer to it has changed over time so that it is not a reliable measuring stick.

Science changes as hypotheses are tested and proven or disproven, and then you get closer to understanding the world.  Too bad he didn't include some Alfred North Whitehead in his deliberations. 

Otherwise, garden variety fundy back-to-the landers who make their own sauerkraut. 

Edited by Howl

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kunoichi66

Thank you for giving me a new burrow to get lost down!  Ready the rescue ferrets!

 

I might have to read this - amish sci-fi?!  wha?

 

:dramallama-nanner::dramallama-nanner::dramallama-nanner:  thanks for letting me know about it!

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BobTheWalrus

@NachosFlandersStyle you weren't wrong about the 37 different kinds of crazy!  The whole thing just seems like a paranoid conspiracy rant about how NASA and the Catholics are suppressing the truth about God.

I'm a Christian; I believe God made the world, but I also believe that science tells us *how* He did it.  I think so many of the supposed clashes come from people seeing things in a too polarised way.  I don't think that a Psalm - which is a song praising God - should be taken as a scientific research paper. The psalm he references talks about the sun rising at one end of the heavens and going to the other.  It's praising God based on what the writer sees, and my view is that I can praise God even more when science explains "and this is how that effect is made possible". It doesn't detract from my worship of God, and equally my faith doesn't prevent me marvelling at the wonders science explains to me.

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Luther

Everything written about Michael Bunker on the Exposing Michael Bunker blog is true. I can't speak to what he has been up to the past year or so other than writing bad fiction and living in his "community." If anyone has any particular questions I would be more than happy to answer them. The point of the blog was to warn those who may want to be involved in his "community" and former "ministry." My advice is that if you like bad fiction read his sci-fi stuff. However, any religious writings, books, sermons, ideas etc... I would stay away from. 

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PopRox

@BobTheWalrus YES!! I am with you 100%. It boggles my mind that people can't seem to get their heads around the idea that you can believe in God AND respect what science has taught us at the same time.

High five! 

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Luther

I agree, I tell others all the time that the bible is not a science book. Its also not a book that tells you exactly how to live and what to do in every life situation. Using the bible for these purposes opens one up to all manner of craziness. Michael Bunkers beliefs and teachings are riddled with these kinds of mistakes such as his belief that the bible commands Christians to be plain and agrarian. The bible has never taught this, nor the church or the church fathers. This is just the tip of the iceberg on my thoughts of Michael Bunker. His theology is inept at best and his character is even more questionable. As one can imagine his scientific views were just as wanting. 

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raised in rebellion

I've only read the post on preconceived idea...seems to me, he's the one making it more complicated than necessary.  Wow.

Am I reading correctly, that he's a possible flat-earther, who believes we are at the center of the universe? If so, his end quote about creation of the worldS seems a strange choice.

I must learn more.

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Luther

Yes it seems he is a flat earther and believes the sun revolves around the earth if I read it correctly. He loses me completely when he starts using the Psalms as a science text. I can tell by reading his writing that he is or has been under the Bunker spell. Typical nonsense, I cannot begin to go through everything wrong with what he wrote it would take days. I wonder if he knows that many Christians believe in evolution like C.S Lewis and Charles Spurgeon? The personality of this article oozes the stench of someone who has read some books they have never read before for a few months and now they know everything. He may need to consider learning how to read the bible and quit worrying about flat earth theory which ultimately does not matter. 

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inkypinkyponky

Oh I am so glad someone started this topic...the Ante family were my gateway fundies too.  Certainly following a different path than the one they were on when they were following Michael Bunker!  Thanks for the tip off to the Nourishing Days blog, gots me some readin to do tonight...

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Enraged
ADoyle90815
5 hours ago, PopRox said:

@BobTheWalrus YES!! I am with you 100%. It boggles my mind that people can't seem to get their heads around the idea that you can believe in God AND respect what science has taught us at the same time.

High five! 

I agree as I think that science could be part of God's plan all along. I guess for fundies, the thought of science is too hard as it requires them to actually use their brains.

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BobTheWalrus
8 hours ago, PopRox said:

@BobTheWalrus YES!! I am with you 100%. It boggles my mind that people can't seem to get their heads around the idea that you can believe in God AND respect what science has taught us at the same time.

High five! 

Woo! High five!

8 hours ago, Luther said:

I agree, I tell others all the time that the bible is not a science book. Its also not a book that tells you exactly how to live and what to do in every life situation. Using the bible for these purposes opens one up to all manner of craziness. Michael Bunkers beliefs and teachings are riddled with these kinds of mistakes such as his belief that the bible commands Christians to be plain and agrarian. The bible has never taught this, nor the church or the church fathers. This is just the tip of the iceberg on my thoughts of Michael Bunker. His theology is inept at best and his character is even more questionable. As one can imagine his scientific views were just as wanting. 

I really like how Nicky Gumbel puts it in the Alpha course - the Bible is God's general will for all people in all places at all times. As you say, it doesn't go into detail about every situation we come across. Computers, for example - not mentioned in scripture at all. But there are principles which apply - use it wisely, don't use it to harm others, don't be jealous of someone who has the iPad mini 4 you really reeeaaallllly want..... hehe..... so if someone wants to live a plain, agrarian lifestyle, great. I'm even happy for them to tell me what's good about it and how God lead them there. But what is NOT right is when they start us this is the *only* Christian lifestyle, and looking down on those who are doing something different.

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