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"The Josiah Effect: How Moderate Religion Fuels Fundamentalism"


Rachel333

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I found that article fascinating and deeply moving - thank you for sharing.

I was taught as a child that the Bible was absolutely, literally true, and I followed as my family veered off from lapsed religion/agnosticism to moderate Christianity, and beyond. By the time I was a teenager, I was proud to call myself a fundamentalist; I could see nothing negative in believing that the Bible was inerrant, and it formed the basis for my worldview and actions. 

Like the author of that article, I can see how easily whole groups of people become 'other' in the eyes of the religious - not righteous or saved; o, jeopardising their own eternal salvation, and the fate of so many others.

It seems to be unspoken, yet still understood, that certain parts of the holy scriptures are outdated and no longer acceptable. The trouble with not saying this explicitly is, of course, that some people don't realise it, and get sucked into all sorts of legalism, judgement, fear, and even hatred of the 'other'. How harmful that otherwise kind and compassionate people can be led to believe that it's ok to treat their fellow human beings with anything other than love and respect. 

My own Christian faith fell by the wayside a number of years ago, but I still feel ashamed and saddened that I thought such horrible things about other human beings. I try to make up for it, to some extent, by using my knowledge to speak out against the hateful bits of the scriptures and beliefs, and encouraging people to remember that those 'others' are real people, with real hopes and fears, loves and dreams.

sorry for my long-windedness, but thank you for sharing that article/opinion, and giving me a safe space to express my thoughts about it

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Thank you for posting this, Rachel333. And for your reply too, @Jellybean.  It is really frightening to think how fine a line there really is between moderates and fundamentalists in religion, politics, social constructs.  

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@Rachel333. Very interesting article, to say the least. The author brought up points I never considered. My personal relationships are primarily with moderate to liberal Christians. Fortunately, they have made it very clear to their young ones what the Bible is, and what it isn’t. The author is absolutely right, one must never assume what message the youth of Christianity and other faiths are receiving.  If one does choose to follow a faith, they should ensure the young and impressionable understand the context the teachings.  

As an Atheist, I have concerns with religion, so to speak. However; I do have very close friends and acquaintances that follow a religious faith. They tend to be associated with what’s considered the more liberal denominations. We’ve simply agreed, to disagree on the existence of a higher being. Thank goodness they’re pro-choice, equal-rights, Darwinist, and politically moderate/liberal to progressive leaning individuals, or we might have some rather lively confrontational conversations lol. Don’t get me wrong, I love healthy debate amongst friends, but at least we’re debating the best way to implement change. 

Thank you for the article, the quote below from the article you shared is very powerful. 

To be sure, there are issues of politics and international relations that must also be addressed. But in the meantime, as long as the scriptures continue to be reproduced and revered in their present bundled forms, the Josiah Effect guarantees that every generation will produce its own crop of extremists. Until the mainstream religions break up these bundles and explicitly disown the abhorrent verses, each new generation will have to rediscover on its own just how dangerous they can be — and that discovery will always come at a high price.

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18 hours ago, Jellybean said:

It seems to be unspoken, yet still understood, that certain parts of the holy scriptures are outdated and no longer acceptable. The trouble with not saying this explicitly is

It does, but at the same time in a lot of churches, even moderate ones, it is still teach that Bible is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, meaning that nothing can be outdated. There is a mixed message there, you are supposed to take everything literally and believe that the Bible never changes, but at the same time figure out on your own which passages society no longer views as acceptable. But no one will actually come out and say that what is interpreted as literal in the Bible changes as society changes. 

Quote

The Bible describes these as righteous deeds. But it’s clear that Josiah slaughtered large numbers of people and that these were not acts of goodness at all. Josiah was a religious fundamentalist, an extremist, and a terrorist — little different from those of today.

This is so interesting because I grew up hearing sermons and children's lessons about Josiah and no one ever said he did anything bad. He was viewed as a righteous man of God. It wasn't till I read this that it dawned on me that I was being taught from the time I was young that killing lots of people for God was a good thing. Josiah was taught to children as being one of the greatest kings. 

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I absolutely agree - many contemporary Christians seem to believe that the Old Testament was pretty much replaced by the New, but [paraphrasing] Jesus said that he came to fulfil the law, not to abolish it, and that not one letter of the scriptures (i.e. OT) would pass away until his second coming.

I knew nothing about god except what was in the bible - that was my only reference point. If parts of the bible are outdated, contradictory, inaccurately translated, or interpreted to have a variety of meanings/implications, where does that stop? If the bible is wrong about some things (or my understanding of it is wrong) then how do I know that any of it is right? That sort of thinking felt incredibly subversive and even dangerous to me as a 20-something. I couldn't cope with the argument that ended with no god - I didn't believe that I could face life's difficulties, let alone answer for myself in the afterlife, without god. For me, the logical alternative was that I had to believe that all of it was true, all of it was relevant, and that any contradictions or dissonance were problems with my own human reasoning.

And voila, there's your fundamentalist, complete with all the necessary tactics to shut down any logic that might suggest alternatives. I applied my own blinkers and wore them with pride.

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I found a blog about this article. 

https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com

Btw, is Henry Rambow writing under a different name? Couldn't find anything about this author. 

I disagree with Rambow's conclusions (because of other reasons than the blog mentions). But no time to delve into theology, work is waiting!

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2 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

I found a blog about this article. 

https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com

Btw, is Henry Rambow writing under a different name? Couldn't find anything about this author. 

I disagree with Rambow's conclusions (because of other reasons than the blog mentions). But no time to delve into theology, work is waiting!

Problem with that argument, most animal activists are not raising up children with stories of PETA violence and telling them it is a good thing and that hurting people who disagree with you or have different beliefs is a righteous and godly behavior. 

ETA: I think I've told this story before, but my oldest daughter was totally confused by the Veggie Tales Josh and the Big Wall video. She said, the Israelites came and took something that wasn't theirs, so why were they the good guys in the video? I tried to explain that some people thought it was okay because God told them to take the land. But as she kept saying "It isn't right to go take stuff that isn't yours." It was the first time I'd really thought of the story that way. This is a story presented to children as being wonderful and yet, it is really a story of genocide and stealing land in the name of God. 

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I don't see the parallel between Christianity and animal rights, so I don't feel that's a sensible argument (in the blog response).

The problem described in Christianity is that the religion is based on writings that, among other things, contain some violent and intolerant teachings. These may be ignored by some moderate Christians, but they are still there (thank you @formergotharditefor the story!), and presenting the entire collection of writings as a single holy text leaves an opening for people to include ugly bits in their own interpretations of Christianity.

As far as I know, there is no equivalent single book for either animal rights or environmentalism, so each person or group of people bases their beliefs on different things. Yes, some people justify 'terrorism' as that blog author describes it, but I don't see the same direct link between moderates and extremists as I do with Christianity. 

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