Why are fundies so tone deaf?

[anjulibai]

The thread about the awful Holocaust romance novel reminded me of something that struck me back in June after the gay marriage decision came out. I have a distant cousin on Facebook who is fundie/fundie-lite who posted an article title something like "What would Jesus say to homosexuals".

The gist of the article was that God loves you no matter what, but that we are all sinners, and with God's help, homosexuals can get over their lust, just like Jesus in the desert.

And all I could thinks was, really, lust? You think this is about lust? Marriage equality is not about lust, it's about love and equal rights. Homosexual relationships are not all about lust.

Both the novel and article are so freaking tone deaf, it's like they are so stuck on their narrative they can't see anything else.

And I'm just left wondering why? Why are they so tone deaf?

Any thoughts?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

The thread about the awful Holocaust romance novel reminded me of something that struck me back in June after the gay marriage decision came out. I have a distant cousin on Facebook who is fundie/fundie-lite who posted an article title something like "What would Jesus say to homosexuals".

The gist of the article was that God loves you no matter what, but that we are all sinners, and with God's help, homosexuals can get over their lust, just like Jesus in the desert.

And all I could thinks was, really, lust? You think this is about lust? Marriage equality is not about lust, it's about love and equal rights. Homosexual relationships are not all about lust.

Both the novel and article are so freaking tone deaf, it's like they are so stuck on their narrative they can't see anything else.

And I'm just left wondering why? Why are they so tone deaf?

Any thoughts?

I think it's because they prohibit exposure to mainstream culture and run like rabbits from exposure to other points of view. This creates their little insular echo chamber where they forget that they are not the norm.

When you can't tolerate dissenting views the easiest way to avoid them is to convince yourself it's your duty to protect you and your loved ones from even considering a different take on things.

I am close to one fundy-lite irl who loves me enough that we've agreed to disagree a long time ago, but the more hard-core that I know tangentially through that world are as baffled by my very mainstream life as I am by theirs. And I guarantee you they feel as sorry for me as I do for them.

[gustava]

You've got it all wrong. They're not tone deaf; we are evil heathens.

[artdecades]

They think everyone thinks like they do. They are so insulated that they cannot fathom worlds outside of their own. What we think is tone deaf is what they think is common sense.

[J'Lurker]

I thought this was going to be about actual tone deafness. So many fundie families feel the Lord lay it on their hearts to start obnoxious singing ministries when the majority of the members are seriously tone deaf...

I recently learned that tone deafness is a dominant gene; I feel like this fact is applicable to this thread, even though the definition of tone deaf is derivative.

[RosyDaisy]

Deep down, I think they also fear they are wrong.

[IrishCarrie]

I also thought this post was about literal/musical tone deafness! I logged on to say that I assume they feel any voices raised in the praise of jeebus are automatically beautiful.

Personally I feel that since their jeebus gave me an ear for music, he presumably doesn't want me cringing in horror at the mangled screeching from the Duggars and Rodriguii.

:hand:

[uber frau]

I think it takes a certain amount of tone deafness to be a fundie in the first place.

[Swamptribe]

Don't forget the 'if you question or disagree with my beliefs, you are questioning god' mentality. They can easily dismiss, or dehumanize anyone who does not agree with them as being 'against god'.

Yeah, many many fundies (and sometimes religious folk in general) are extremely tone deaf. They do not understand subtleties of differences. Their thinking is very black and white, very much concrete. They really seem to have trouble thinking in the abstract. I find this more of a symptom of what attracted them to their religious beliefs than a result of those beliefs. in the more extreme religions, everything is laid out for you. You are told what is right and what is wrong. What is 'pleasing unto the lord'. You really don't have to think about it. This leads to thinking in the world with the same pattern over and over again, a rather stilted view of the world.

At work, we have a regular customer who comes in for pretty much the sole purpose of stalking people to preach at them. He has even interrupted my conversations with customers, so he can eventually work up to the 'have you been saved'. The clerks and I have warned, and even rescued customers from him. He had total blinders on concerning how obnoxious he is being.

[nelliebelle1197]

I thought the title of this thread was a reference to Joseph and Anna Maxwell's singing. :roll:

[Gimme a Free RV]

I thought the title of this thread was a reference to Joseph and Anna Maxwell's singing. :roll:

Or the Duggars on their stringed instruments.

[Jana814]

They think everyone thinks like they do. They are so insulated that they cannot fathom worlds outside of their own. What we think is tone deaf is what they think is common sense.

Agree!!

[anjulibai]

*snort* Yes, they are tone deaf in multiple ways.

[ShepherdontheRock]

So I think a lot of fundamentalist beliefs are out of fear of someone/something different, people who have their own issues that they can't get over, and deal with it by being really self-involved. Actually, I think a lot of very religious people deal with it the same way.

I mean, take someone who's not exposed to intellectual stimulation/the world, has had issues with being bullied/mental illness/whatever. Maybe you even have things you're guilty over. Many fundie things you have to do make redemption sound so easy "just give your heart to Jesus, and he'll save you" and then they give you guidelines about how to be perfect and clean and then get to live in eternal happiness after you die. It's effectively a get-out-of-jail-free and get-out-of-guilty-conscience-free card.

I mean, why do you think ministries focus so much on prisons? There are more likely to be the kind of people who would be so afraid of a bad past/going to hell at San Quentin than Stanford.

Hence, why someone so afraid would insulate themselves from the sin they see all around them. I mean, if the Are You a Good Person? thing was actually legit? I'd be fucking scared of the rest of the world, too. And I'd actually think Pascal's Wager was a legit argument!

The irony that is lost on these fundies is that the conservative/orthodox/fundie Muslims and Jews they think are going to hell is that their doctrine says the vice versa. So, how are they to even know that the Muslims are wrong, beyond "because we said so?"

[Guest]

The thread about the awful Holocaust romance novel reminded me of something that struck me back in June after the gay marriage decision came out. I have a distant cousin on Facebook who is fundie/fundie-lite who posted an article title something like "What would Jesus say to homosexuals".

The gist of the article was that God loves you no matter what, but that we are all sinners, and with God's help, homosexuals can get over their lust, just like Jesus in the desert.

And all I could thinks was, really, lust? You think this is about lust? Marriage equality is not about lust, it's about love and equal rights. Homosexual relationships are not all about lust.

Both the novel and article are so freaking tone deaf, it's like they are so stuck on their narrative they can't see anything else.

And I'm just left wondering why? Why are they so tone deaf?

Any thoughts?

I'd say for most fundies, marriage IS about lust, in a way. They barely know each other when they get married, so all they have to go on is how they feel about the person, physically. So based on their peanut-sized world view, they think that's how most people feel when they marry someone too, and it makes sense that they think homosexual people base everything on "attraction" rather than "love." They think other people are just as stunted emotionally as they are.

[Jana814]

Fundie's think their way of life is the only way. Anyone else dosen't matter to them unless they agree w/ them.

[Dandruff]

I mean, why do you think ministries focus so much on prisons? There are more likely to be the kind of people who would be so afraid of a bad past/going to hell at San Quentin than Stanford.

I think they focus on prisons because it gives them literally captive audiences. The inmates may not have to attend, but it's a chance to break up the monotony.

As far as the tone-deafness, I agree it's part of black and white thinking. If they believe homosexuality is sinful then why would they care if there's real love, commitment, etc? The root is sin, it's therefore evil, and people need to be continually warned against the manifestations (e.g., lust) of the evil. Likewise, if a fundie is getting in your face trying to save your soul and you won't take no for an answer, it's your sin vs. their tone-deafness that's seen as the issue.

I consider hard-core, proselytizing fundies to be the spiritual equivalent of rapists. They've just chosen to convince themselves that they're doing you a favor.

[nastyhobbitses]

I think fundies need to heed this little (rather vulgar) piece of advice about "sinners" and such: if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes (or pants).

[DGayle]

Or the Duggars on their stringed instruments.

Or Jill & the Rod-Trapped Family Singers.

[nomoxian]

They not only think that looking at anyone with sexual intent is lust - They think that their (heterosexual!) gazing at the cute cashier at Aldi is the same thing as bending them over and going at it in the produce aisle... and if they think those things, then it must be true for everyone else because God Said So.

I thought this thread was going to be about them being tone deaf in the music department. Not many choices to be creative when the choices available to you are choosing baby names (even then, you're limited by the bible), cooking (whatever is on sale or in bulk form), sewing (but always keep it Modest First!), memorizing the bible, playing an instrument or "singing"

[ADoyle90815]

I think fundies need to heed this little (rather vulgar) piece of advice about "sinners" and such: if you smell shit everywhere you go, check your shoes (or pants).

For the rest of us, as Jon Stewart said about bullshit, "If you smell something, say something."

[salsa]

I think it takes a certain amount of tone deafness to be a fundie in the first place.

Amen! It seems to be genetic or something... like some folks can't imagine that an understanding of life could be any different from what they see/hear/read/interpret... I've known only 2 truly tone deaf people in my life - really and truly could only respond to the beat of music and sang in a low monotone - but the analogy seems to work. Similar to color blindness - my chemistry teacher got irritated at a boy in my class when he couldn't respond to a question where the answer was written on the green board with blue chalk and my classmate must have seen him pointing to a blank space and said, "I'm blue-green colorblind." The chem teacher used different colors of chalk to chart out the formulas, but in this case it wasn't helpful....

In any case, fundie-hood like a tone deafness or blind spot. And, sadly, when one is bright enough to see or hear in a broader spectrum, they raise questions and then get beaten into submission.

(and I also thought this was about bad fundy violin and harp-playing)

[salsa]

They not only think that looking at anyone with sexual intent is lust - They think that their (heterosexual!) gazing at the cute cashier at Aldi is the same thing as bending them over and going at it in the produce aisle... and if they think those things, then it must be true for everyone else because God Said So.

I thought this thread was going to be about them being tone deaf in the music department. Not many choices to be creative when the choices available to you are choosing baby names (even then, you're limited by the bible), cooking (whatever is on sale or in bulk form), sewing (but always keep it Modest First!), memorizing the bible, playing an instrument or "singing"

wait! there's produce at Aldi's? I thought it was all off-brand canned stuff and frozen crap

[Sunshine1491]

I thought this was going to be about actual tone deafness. So many fundie families feel the Lord lay it on their hearts to start obnoxious singing ministries when the majority of the members are seriously tone deaf...

I recently learned that tone deafness is a dominant gene; I feel like this fact is applicable to this thread, even though the definition of tone deaf is derivative.

OH GOD THIS. One time I was waiting in line for a roller coaster at Six Flags (on home school day) and this fundie family of pod people busts out, "WE LOVE JESUS YES WE DO. WE LOVE JESUS HOW BOUT YOU?" and the mom harassed some of the crowd into joining in. That was at a point in my life when I did consider myself a conservative Christian (more of a polyatheist now), and it still made me really uncomfortable to listen to gleeful Jesus-chanting at an amusement park.

There's a time and a place, y'know?

[Hane]

I just read something about how conservatives have higher levels of fear about life in general than moderates and liberals do. (Can't remember where, dammit.) perhaps fearfulness leads people to follow belief systems that deal in moral absolutes: "Follow all our rules, and you'll have nothing to worry about!"