Most Offensive Romance Novel Ever MERGED

[GeoBQn]

For Such a Time by Kate Breslin is a Christian romance novel about a Jewish woman who falls in love with a Nazi concentration camp director and manages to redeem him through the power of the Christian Bible.

Everyone seems to agree that every single part of this book is WRONG (starting with the use of the word "Jewess" to describe the heroine. What the actual fuck?)

Everyone, that is, except for the Romance Writers of America, who have nominated the book for two RITA awards (the romance equivalent of a Hugo Award).

http://jezebel.com/holy-shit-who-though ... 1722465991

[formergothardite]

So is the woman a Jew who converts to Christianity while in a concentration camp or is she already a Christian? The whole thing sounds awful but I know some Christians who this would appeal to.

[GeoBQn]

She's half-Jewish and passing for German.

[DomWackTroll]

But deep down he's super sweet, y'all!

The heroine is a Jewish girl with blonde hair and blue eyes. Of course.

[Firiel]

Is it just me, or-- on top of being horribly and insanely offensive-- isn't this also just a rip-off of the book of Esther?

EDIT: That's where the title comes from. It's not even an accidental rip-off...

[GeoBQn]

It is explicitly based on the Book of Esther. The main character's name is Hadassah, which was Esther's Hebrew name. The Nazi boyfriend is Aric (Ahashverosh) and her uncle is Morty (Mordechai.)

[Anny Nym]

A couple of years ago, I looked after a Erasmus student through a newbie-mentoring program at Uni, who introduced me to the eversoodd world of fanfiction groups on livejournal.

She was writing a term paper on it, mainly taking examples from the genre of "Inglorious Basterds" fanfictions.

And apparently Col Hans Landa was a hit with fanfiction writers...

So I got to read a couple of pretty sappy written "stories" with almost exactly this theme.

A excessive described female character with a ridiculous name (like a german female character named a english name with kryative spelling...) "saving" Landa (not in the religious way though). With side mentions of Mengele, Göth, ...I think in one story the "heroine" converted the Führer too. The full program. :cray-cray:

[Terrie]

:wtf: :pull-hair:

[VelociRapture]

A couple of years ago, I looked after a Erasmus student through a newbie-mentoring program at Uni, who introduced me to the eversoodd world of fanfiction groups on livejournal.

She was writing a term paper on it, mainly taking examples from the genre of "Inglorious Basterds" fanfictions.

And apparently Col Hans Landa was a hit with fanfiction writers...

So I got to read a couple of pretty sappy written "stories" with almost exactly this theme.

A excessive described female character with a ridiculous name (like a german female character named a english name with kryative spelling...) "saving" Landa (not in the religious way though). With side mentions of Mengele, Göth, ...I think in one story the "heroine" converted the Führer too. The full program. :cray-cray:

Same with Harry Potter fanfiction. Dear God, the amount of stories I've seen that have a female character redeeming Draco Malfoy. . . :roll:

Yeah, fanfics or romance novels relating to the Holocaust or any genocide are very problematic. I think this type of story can be done - but only if you approach the subject correctly and respectfully. You have to show the good and the bad, while not lowering yourself to stereotypes or completely bending historical facts to make it work. This book. . . does not do that apparently.

Honestly, I think I'd rather read Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey over this shit.

[Firiel]

Same with Harry Potter fanfiction. Dear God, the amount of stories I've seen that have a female character redeeming Draco Malfoy. . . :roll:

Yeah, fanfics or romance novels relating to the Holocaust or any genocide are very problematic. I think this type of story can be done - but only if you approach the subject correctly and respectfully. You have to show the good and the bad, while not lowering yourself to stereotypes or completely bending historical facts to make it work. This book. . . does not do that apparently.

Honestly, I think I'd rather read Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey over this shit.

Seriously. At least you can get some lulz from those.

[Johanna25]

You definitely don't take tale about a Jewish heroine and rewrite it as a Christian conversion romance centered in the biggest tragedy of Jewish (or indeed human) history. A redemption story for the comandant of a concentration camp? Given their relative positions, it qualifies as rape, not romance.

[Four is Enough]

You definitely don't take tale about a Jewish heroine and rewrite it as a Christian conversion romance centered in the biggest tragedy of Jewish (or indeed human) history..

This. How fucking stupid.

[2xx1xy1JD]

No. Just no.

Someone close to us survived that particular concentration camp as a child, while the rest of his family was murdered. Reading about the commandant of that camp getting hot and heavy with a Jewish girl would not make me horny - it would cause me nightmares. Adding Christian redemption to that would just make me scream and puke.

I do have some documentary evidence of Nazis guards who had "relationships" with Jewish prisoners. It was a means of staying alive, period.

[Coco]

You definitely don't take tale about a Jewish heroine and rewrite it as a Christian conversion romance centered in the biggest tragedy of Jewish (or indeed human) history. A redemption story for the comandant of a concentration camp? Given their relative positions, it qualifies as rape, not romance.

and how fake would it have to be to ignore the desperation.

[Cleopatra7]

Well, this confirms my belief that the romance genre as a whole is built on making women and girls accept abusive situations and relationships as not just palatable, but "sexy." For more evidence of this, see what kind of questionable messages romance comics from the 50s, 60s, and 70s were giving girls:

http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupi ... cs339.html

http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupi ... cs340.html

http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupi ... cs396.html

http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupi ... cs271.html

(links not broken, because it's to another snark site and I know the gang at Mister Kitty would appreciate the traffic)

However, I approach romance comics from 40+ years ago with an extremely lowered set of expectations. You'd think that we would have made some progress since then, but the popularity of 50 Shades and now this "award-winning" Nazi-Christian redemption garbage makes me wonder. :mouse-shock: :pull-hair: :wtf:

[guitar_villain]

For Such a Time by Kate Breslin is a Christian romance novel about a Jewish woman who falls in love with a Nazi concentration camp director and manages to redeem him through the power of the Christian Bible.

Everyone seems to agree that every single part of this book is WRONG (starting with the use of the word "Jewess" to describe the heroine. What the actual fuck?)

Everyone, that is, except for the Romance Writers of America, who have nominated the book for two RITA awards (the romance equivalent of a Hugo Award).

http://jezebel.com/holy-shit-who-though ... 1722465991

Is it the equivalent of the Hugo or the Nebula?

It sounds like this is closer to the Nebula, which is voted on by the writers, rather than the Hugo which is voted on by fans. If so, that's pretty bad. The Hugo nominees were gamed this year by a small group of right wing folks who felt that too many touchy feely female oriented stories were winning over good old fashioned shoot-em-up space operas. They could do this since the total number of fans who vote are in the low thousands, and it's caused quite a bit of dissent in the Sf community. Look up Sad Puppies, Rabid Puppies and Vox Day if you want a taste of the ideology/idiocy.

The Nebula awards didn't have the same problem since they restrict voting to published authors, and there just aren't enough folks who can actually publish. Vox Day is trying to create effectively a vanity label to publish more dreck but it's probably not going to be enough anytime soon.

[Geechee Girl]

/snip

Everyone seems to agree that every single part of this book is WRONG (starting with the use of the word "Jewess" to describe the heroine. What the actual fuck?

This is the first I'm learning of this. Has the usage always been offensive, or has it fallen out of current use?

[ShepherdontheRock]

Does this remind anyone else of any of those stories about a white man in antibellum South falling in love with a slave and whatnot and what forth. Or the rich white girl in antibellum South falling in love with one of Daddy's slaves? 'Cuz it does me.

Why are people continuing to glamorize internalized misogyny/racism? Why are people continuing to apologize/humanize people who took an active role in a genocide? Why are we glamorizing this "other?"

[GeoBQn]

This is the first I'm learning of this. Has the usage always been offensive, or has it fallen out of current use?

It is out of current use. There are some segments of Jewish women who are trying to reclaim it. Basically, if a Jewish female friend refers to me as a "Jewess," I am not offended because we both acknowledge that it is an archaic term and understand the joke. A non-Jew using it as if it was actually still a common descriptor, like the book cover, is offensive.

[thoughtful]

I've always had issues with the "our heroine wins over a rake or darkly brooding troubled man" trope of romance novels, even the classics. Mr. Rochester and Heathcliff, in real life, would be men to avoid.

Somehow, I'm not surprised it came to this. Once caught up in the format, I guess it is tempting for a writer to go for the most depressing setting and the most horrible thing a man could be doing for a living.

Is there a novel about winning over a brooding (but handsome!) serial killer yet? :roll:

ETA -- For Such a Time sounds like a book that CountryBoy (the fundie who came here and said Anne Frank might have survived if she'd had something to hold onto, like, for example, faith in Jesus) would love!

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15945

Anne Frank stuff starts here:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15945&start=100#p579299

[thoughtful]

It is out of current use.

Agreed. And I'd define "current" as going pretty far back.

When Saturday Night Live used it in a parody ad in 1980, I saw it as an example of their trying to be daring by embracing a word that would be considered rude, and the stereotype to go with it.

https://screen.yahoo.com/jewess-jeans-000000448.html

[Terrie]

I've always had issues with the "our heroine wins over a rake or darkly brooding troubled man" trope of romance novels, even the classics. Mr. Rochester and Heathcliff, in real life, would be men to avoid.

Somehow, I'm not surprised it came to this. Once caught up in the format, I guess it is tempting for a writer to go for the most depressing setting and the most horrible thing a man could be doing for a living.

Is there a novel about winning over a brooding (but handsome!) serial killer yet? :roll:

Hannibal? Though, it was marketed as a thriller, not a romance.

[Hane]

Well, this confirms my belief that the romance genre as a whole is built on making women and girls accept abusive situations and relationships as not just palatable, but "sexy."

I always across-the-board thought so, until I met a local author named Kristan Higgins at an authors' luncheon. She said she wrote "funny romance novels for smart people." I've read all of her books, and she's right!

[anjulibai]

Hannibal? Though, it was marketed as a thriller, not a romance.

I don't think Hannibal was really won over. He was always the seducer, and nothing could change him. There's definitely something sensual and charming about him, be that's very common in psychopaths.

This story reminds of when in 7th grade, after reading the play of the Diary of Anne Frank, out teacher has us write short stories about what if we lived at the time. They were.....bad ..... I think I was the only one who said I would just have died as anonymous as the other victims, while everyone else either escaped or were martyred gentiles who bravely defied Hitler. Back then, I thought my classmates were dumbasses, but now I see how just horribly inappropriate the whole assignment was and blame the teacher.

[Geechee Girl]

Thank you for the explanation, thoughtful & GeoBQn. I appreciate the education I receive here at FJ.