Garland County Judge Leaves 2 Year Old In Car

[FJismyheadship]

http://www.thv11.com/story/news/local/h ... /30679909/

Judge Naramore is the one who presided over the Stanley case. There are nasty people saying its payback for his treatment of the Stanley family, others who are saying he is gettng break because he is a judge.

The boy was in the car for four hours before his dad remembered he was in the car. By then it was too late.

[DGayle]

Calling a child's death "payback" is cruel, especially when it's a death like that.

Seriously, how can people be so stupid that they forget their CHILDREN? No matter how busy you are, if you can forget your children, you suck. I'm not even going to give a free pass because someone's preoccupied. There's NO FUCKING EXCUSE for leaving a CHILD in the car. There's the tip of putting your cell phone in the carseat so you'll remember your kid. That's terrible that people are expected to remember their cell phones, but if you forget you child, it's just an accident.

[catparty]

Calling a child's death "payback" is cruel, especially when it's a death like that.

Seriously, how can people be so stupid that they forget their CHILDREN? No matter how busy you are, if you can forget your children, you suck. I'm not even going to give a free pass because someone's preoccupied. There's NO FUCKING EXCUSE for leaving a CHILD in the car. There's the tip of putting your cell phone in the carseat so you'll remember your kid. That's terrible that people are expected to remember their cell phones, but if you forget you child, it's just an accident.

It's more complicated than that.

Sometimes things are so routine that you're able to "autopilot" through them; like when you go to work or school, taking the same route you take every morning, and realize that you don't remember a single thing about that particular drive. You weren't asleep or drunk, you weren't distracted, you just don't remember. This is because the brain actually becomes less active (less vascular activity) when undertaking a familiar task.

In these cases, extreme fatigue combines with cognitive autopilot and a false memory of taking the child to preschool/sitter/whatever is formed because nothing of note happened to kickstart the parent's fluid rather than crystallized memory.

Taking your kid to school is very common; it's easy to autopilot through that. Putting your phone in the backseat of the car isn't; therefore, you're aware of a difference which keeps your brain active enough to remember. It isn't that the phone is more important than the kid, it's the idea of the phone being back there an abstract.

[RandomTrivia]

It's more complicated than that.

Sometimes things are so routine that you're able to "autopilot" through them; like when you go to work or school, taking the same route you take every morning, and realize that you don't remember a single thing about that particular drive. You weren't asleep or drunk, you weren't distracted, you just don't remember. This is because the brain actually becomes less active (less vascular activity) when undertaking a familiar task.

In these cases, extreme fatigue combines with cognitive autopilot and a false memory of taking the child to preschool/sitter/whatever is formed because nothing of note happened to kickstart the parent's fluid rather than crystallized memory.

Somewhere online, there is a very very good (but heartbreaking) article about this. Google isn't finding it for me right now, but it was linked last time FJ discussed an incident like this. This Washington Post article is close, but I don't think it's the one I'm remembering.

Brain autopilot is a weird, sometimes scary thing - when you're driving somewhere and get there, but don't really remember anything about the drive, it's unsettling. On weekends, when we go out, DH will automatically take the route to work if he's not paying attention. Autopilot is also why I've circled the block on many occasions, because I can't remember actually closing the garage door. It's always closed when I come back to check, but hitting the remote button is so automatic that it just doesn't register in my brain.

[DaffyDill]

Somewhere online, there is a very very good (but heartbreaking) article about this. Google isn't finding it for me right now, but it was linked last time FJ discussed an incident like this. This Washington Post article is close, but I don't think it's the one I'm remembering.

Brain autopilot is a weird, sometimes scary thing - when you're driving somewhere and get there, but don't really remember anything about the drive, it's unsettling. On weekends, when we go out, DH will automatically take the route to work if he's not paying attention. Autopilot is also why I've circled the block on many occasions, because I can't remember actually closing the garage door. It's always closed when I come back to check, but hitting the remote button is so automatic that it just doesn't register in my brain.

Wow....thanks for the link to the Washington Post article RandomTrivia, it really is food for thought. After I read it, I just felt incredibly sad for these parents, who clearly loved their children just as those of us that are parents love our own. The article has certainly made me stop and think.

The human brain is a fascinating thing, and we still know so little about how it really works.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Calling a child's death "payback" is cruel, especially when it's a death like that.

Seriously, how can people be so stupid that they forget their CHILDREN? No matter how busy you are, if you can forget your children, you suck. I'm not even going to give a free pass because someone's preoccupied. There's NO FUCKING EXCUSE for leaving a CHILD in the car. There's the tip of putting your cell phone in the carseat so you'll remember your kid. That's terrible that people are expected to remember their cell phones, but if you forget you child, it's just an accident.

Ironically, attitudes like yours actually cause this tragedy to keep happening.

Read the Washington Post story.

The only way to prevent these deaths is for everyone to seriously acknowledge that yes, THEY could very well see themselves doing exactly the same thing when the brain goes into auto-pilot, and taking active steps to make sure that it doesn't happen. If you tell yourself that you aren't an idiot like THOSE parents, that you are so super-duper loving that you couldn't possibly forget your child, you won't take those steps and your child is at risk because nobody consciously thinks about their brain going on auto-pilot.

Things that, unlike name-calling, would actually save lives:

1. Putting wallet or purse next to the car seat.

2. Making an iron-clad habit of ALWAYS checking the back seat when leaving the car, whether or not the kids are with you.

3. Making sure that you always bring in the baby FIRST, then other children in order of age, and only then any parcels.

4. Have a phone system, where the daycare calls if the child is not dropped off at the usual time.

5. Remind anyone taking the child for the day of the rules.

6. Phone in to check if there is a change in routine with child drop-off.

7. Never leave the car without a young child, for any reason.

8. Consider making car seat alarms, which would go off if the child is still in the seat 1 min after the car is turned off.

[RandomTrivia]

Found another article, fromParents magazine. It also goes into the brain functions part of the issue. One of the things I noticed is that most of these parents were at or on the way to work when it happened, not at home. I guess when you're at home, you're expecting the kids to be present, whereas at work, you've made arrangements for child care. I'm not wording that well, I know - but I do remember days when my son was visiting Grandma or something, and I'd have split seconds of "wait, where is he!?!" because I could turn around and not almost trip over him, for example.

Weird stuff happens when your routines kick in, or when a routine changes, and it can happen to anyone. It's just that a lot of the time, nothing tragically-newsworthy happens, so no one hears about it. When I almost take the turn-off to a job I had 10 years ago, it doesn't make the news.

[VelociRapture]

Ironically, attitudes like yours actually cause this tragedy to keep happening.

Read the Washington Post story.

The only way to prevent these deaths is for everyone to seriously acknowledge that yes, THEY could very well see themselves doing exactly the same thing when the brain goes into auto-pilot, and taking active steps to make sure that it doesn't happen. If you tell yourself that you aren't an idiot like THOSE parents, that you are so super-duper loving that you couldn't possibly forget your child, you won't take those steps and your child is at risk because nobody consciously thinks about their brain going on auto-pilot.

Things that, unlike name-calling, would actually save lives:

1. Putting wallet or purse next to the car seat.

2. Making an iron-clad habit of ALWAYS checking the back seat when leaving the car, whether or not the kids are with you.

3. Making sure that you always bring in the baby FIRST, then other children in order of age, and only then any parcels.

4. Have a phone system, where the daycare calls if the child is not dropped off at the usual time.

5. Remind anyone taking the child for the day of the rules.

6. Phone in to check if there is a change in routine with child drop-off.

7. Never leave the car without a young child, for any reason.

8. Consider making car seat alarms, which would go off if the child is still in the seat 1 min after the car is turned off.

I totally agree with what you said. I remember reading this article a while ago. The most important part of that article to me is the following:

The human brain, he says, is a magnificent but jury-rigged device in which newer and more sophisticated structures sit atop a junk heap of prototype brains still used by lower species. At the top of the device are the smartest and most nimble parts: the prefrontal cortex, which thinks and analyzes, and the hippocampus, which makes and holds on to our immediate memories. At the bottom is the basal ganglia, nearly identical to the brains of lizards, controlling voluntary but barely conscious actions.

Diamond says that in situations involving familiar, routine motor skills, the human animal presses the basal ganglia into service as a sort of auxiliary autopilot. When our prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are planning our day on the way to work, the ignorant but efficient basal ganglia is operating the car; that’s why you’ll sometimes find yourself having driven from point A to point B without a clear recollection of the route you took, the turns you made or the scenery you saw.

Ordinarily, says Diamond, this delegation of duty “works beautifully, like a symphony. But sometimes, it turns into the ‘1812 Overture.’ The cannons take over and overwhelm.â€

By experimentally exposing rats to the presence of cats, and then recording electrochemical changes in the rodents’ brains, Diamond has found that stress -- either sudden or chronic -- can weaken the brain’s higher-functioning centers, making them more susceptible to bullying from the basal ganglia. He’s seen the same sort of thing play out in cases he’s followed involving infant deaths in cars.

“The quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,†he said. “The important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what it’s supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.â€

What it boils down to is this: it doesn't matter how much you love your child. Everyone is at risk of having this happen to them. Blaming the adult in the situation or claiming they must not love their child enough is bullshit, pure and simple.

I think a lot of people like to claim these parents are horrible people because they're scared. They know, on some level, that this could happen to any parent because parents are humans like everyone else and are subject to the same brain functions as most other people. And because the thought of it happening to them scares them so much they shut down and refuse to acknowledge it as a possibility - and they turn to the belief that the other parent must not have loved their kid enough or been a good enough parent to have that happen.

Thats not to say that there aren't some parents who are neglectful or abusive or who purposely do this to their child. There are. . . but the vast majority of parents who wind up in this type of horrific situation are loving parents doing the best they can.

[FundieFarmer]

I hate to say I think I would do this...but I know I could. I've gotten in the car and driven toward my old job, or gotten off the interstate and headed for my parents' instead of my own house, more than once. It's like I wake up and wonder what's going on. Thankfully most of the roads here are interconnected so it's just out of the way a few minutes, but it's frightening. The systems are necessary.

[formergothardite]

I just saw that Walmart is selling a car seat that has an alarm that goes off if the car is cut off and there is a child still in the car seat. They tested to make sure it wasn't similar to any sounds a car or cell phone would typically make so that it would attract more attention.

This is such a tragic situation and I understand how it could so easily happen.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Found another article, fromParents magazine. It also goes into the brain functions part of the issue. One of the things I noticed is that most of these parents were at or on the way to work when it happened, not at home. I guess when you're at home, you're expecting the kids to be present, whereas at work, you've made arrangements for child care. I'm not wording that well, I know - but I do remember days when my son was visiting Grandma or something, and I'd have split seconds of "wait, where is he!?!" because I could turn around and not almost trip over him, for example.

Weird stuff happens when your routines kick in, or when a routine changes, and it can happen to anyone. It's just that a lot of the time, nothing tragically-newsworthy happens, so no one hears about it. When I almost take the turn-off to a job I had 10 years ago, it doesn't make the news.

A change in routine is a huge risk factor.

We need to get the word out. It's not enough to say "never leave your child in a hot car", because these parents don't consciously realize that they are doing it. We need to get specific and say, "if you change your routine in any way, or have your child being driven by someone else, your child is at a higher risk of being left in a hot car. Take extra precautions, including calling in to the driver."

[2xx1xy1JD]

I just saw that Walmart is selling a car seat that has an alarm that goes off if the car is cut off and there is a child still in the car seat. They tested to make sure it wasn't similar to any sounds a car or cell phone would typically make so that it would attract more attention.

This is such a tragic situation and I understand how it could so easily happen.

That would be helpful, but in order for it to be a success, there need to be parents who realize that they could forget their child. If they feel that it is something only "bad" parents do, they won't buy it or take other precautions.

[DaffyDill]

That would be helpful, but in order for it to be a success, there need to be parents who realize that they could forget their child. If they feel that it is something only "bad" parents do, they won't buy it or take other precautions.

A better scenario would for all new car seats to have those warning devices fitted during the manufacture process. Otherwise, only people who are wise enough to realise how easily this can happen to anyone, will purchase the alarmed ones. People with DGayles attitude never will, because in their minds it only happens to lousy parents, or parents who wanted to "get rid" of their child for some reason.

The issue of indemnity if the alarm fails is a big one though. What happens if a parent buys the alarmed seat, it fails, and the child is left in the car? Very few companies are going to want to open themselves up to that kind of liability/lawsuit. Not that I think that is reason to not install alarms in all carseats, just wondering where a company would be left in a litigious society.

[FundieFarmer]

That's a great point, and it circles us back to a conversation we had in another thread about a user's responsibility. We discussed it on the tampon lawsuit thread, but it could apply here too. Where's the line drawn?

[VelociRapture]

That's a great point, and it circles us back to a conversation we had in another thread about a user's responsibility. We discussed it on the tampon lawsuit thread, but it could apply here too. Where's the line drawn?

I keep trying to come up with an answer to this, but I just can't.

To me, if there are clear warnings on a product that someone disregards and it causes harm or death to them or someone else - that's on the consumer completely. The company attempted to warn the consumer and they ignored it. End of story.

If there aren't explicit warnings though, that could open the company up to potential lawsuits. Or if the company knew that their product was faulty and decides its cheaper to just settle a lawsuit than to fix the problem.

Still, there is a certain level of personal responsibility when it comes to any product - but especially when it comes to a proposed product like a car seat alarm. Its a very hazy line and any company looking to invest in this sort of product should make damn sure they have ironclad warnings and a solid product to sell.

[FundieFarmer]

I agree, VR...it's definitely a hazy line. I haven't seen any car seat labels that explicitly say "don't forget your child" or anything along those lines, though as I googled some just now I saw one (one!) that said the parent should always stay with their child during use and several that said death could occur if used incorrectly (though that was almost universally about how to position it). How would they even word that on the label? You'd think you wouldn't have to remind someone not to forget their child and yet it happens.

And to take this one step more...how could this be blamed on a car seat company? What about adults forgetting children over the age of using a car seat? Does it become a car manufacturer problem?

All of these are legitimate questions, btw...I've just been mulling this over since the tampon thread and still haven't quite come up with an answer either.

[VelociRapture]

I agree, VR...it's definitely a hazy line. I haven't seen any car seat labels that explicitly say "don't forget your child" or anything along those lines, though as I googled some just now I saw one (one!) that said the parent should always stay with their child during use and several that said death could occur if used incorrectly (though that was almost universally about how to position it). How would they even word that on the label? You'd think you wouldn't have to remind someone not to forget their child and yet it happens.

And to take this one step more...how could this be blamed on a car seat company? What about adults forgetting children over the age of using a car seat? Does it become a car manufacturer problem?

All of these are legitimate questions, btw...I've just been mulling this over since the tampon thread and still haven't quite come up with an answer either.

I know. Its frustrating because this is such a serious matter and there doesn't seem to be a clear or good answer. I wish they would just make it a law that all car seats have to include a safety feature like this, but that really doesn't seem practical to me. I could see the companies putting up a fight because of potential lawsuits - and I can't say I'd blame them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I know. Its frustrating because this is such a serious matter and there doesn't seem to be a clear or good answer. I wish they would just make it a law that all car seats have to include a safety feature like this, but that really doesn't seem practical to me. I could see the companies putting up a fight because of potential lawsuits - and I can't say I'd blame them.

If there were alarms that worked reliably and were relatively inexpensive, I don't see why the law couldn't require them.

If it would make the final product an extra $500, that would cause too many families difficulties and could lead to less car seat use overall, so that wouldn't be good. If it would only increase the price by $20, though, due to high volumes, then it might be worth it.

Car seats don't make it okay to get into a car crash with a kid. Air bags don't mean that front-end collisions are no big deal. Sprinkler systems in building don't mean that it's ok to be stupid with fire. You can have a backup safety mechanism which doesn't mean that normal precautions aren't needed.

[happy atheist]

How would a carseat alarm work? Would it have to be wired into the car to know when it was shut off? What if you shut the car off to wait for someone you were picking up? Does the alarm go off then? What about cars that automatically shut off the engine at red lights?

[church_of_dog]

How would a carseat alarm work? Would it have to be wired into the car to know when it was shut off? What if you shut the car off to wait for someone you were picking up? Does the alarm go off then? What about cars that automatically shut off the engine at red lights?

Maybe it could be designed to be triggered when the driver's door opens instead of when the engine stops?

[happy atheist]

Maybe it could be designed to be triggered when the driver's door opens instead of when the engine stops?

Can you imagine how irate parents would be when the alarm goes off and wakes up the sleeping baby?

[church_of_dog]

Can you imagine how irate parents would be when the alarm goes off and wakes up the sleeping baby?

Oh true -- they would find a way to disable it because they're sure THEY would never forget their baby and it's more important to let the baby sleep...

It's a true dilemma -- because if the "noise" is quiet then it might not get the driver's attention, and if it's not quiet it might wake sleeping babies.

Maybe a non-audio alarm -- either something visual that pops up that the driver would see, or something mechanical like not being able to lock the car if the car seat is occupied.

But the general principles still apply -- it would need to be inherent to all cars with car seats, because if it's optional then people will assume they don't need them.

[FJismyheadship]

What about a key chain remote for the carseat? Before you open te door, you hit the button on the remote to deactivate the car seat? Our phones have the ability to stop calls and texts when drving, what about a messagr when the car turns off reminding people to get te child out t?

[church_of_dog]

What about a key chain remote for the carseat? Before you open te door, you hit the button on the remote to deactivate the car seat? Our phones have the ability to stop calls and texts when drving, what about a messagr when the car turns off reminding people to get te child out t?

I think we're on the right path with these ideas. Not sure if actually preventing the car door from being opened until the car seat is released is exactly right, because in an accident/emergency you don't want anything to delay the opening of the door. But yes, something in that general range -- what if it was a sound, not too loud, that was something associated with baby, like the "go to sleep" lullaby tune (sorry, I'm not a parent, don't know what it's called, lol) -- that's not something a parent would likely use as a ringtone that might cause them to have a different association, and it would immediately give the mental message "baby" -- plus it wouldn't necessarily wake the baby since it's a soothing sound...

So the sound could play as the driver's door opens -- not when the engine goes off, because as we've said, sometimes you're just turning off the engine while you wait but not getting out (or the hybrids that "turn off" while waiting at lights). Also I think newer cars have the radio keep playing even when the engine goes off, and that doesn't silence until the door opens (at least on my 2014 Chevy Spark that's how it works).

Hmm... maybe we're on the right track...

[FundieFarmer]

You know how the passenger seat in some cars will let you know if the air bag is on based on the weight it measures of the object in the seat? Well, what if something similar could be done with the car seat and a bluetooth connection to a keychain/phone so that if the keychain/phone moves x number of feet away from the carseat while a certain weight or more remains in the seat, an alarm goes off on the keychain?

(To any companies who want to steal this, you heard it here first! Message to discuss royalties :lol: )