I honestly believe Britain is fucked.

[moodygirl86]

David Cameron's Tories won the UK General Election on Thursday and what's more, they've done it without having to form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, or any other party for that matter. While Nick Clegg was his Deputy, Cameron was unable to push through various "reforms" he was planning but now he can slash more benefits that help the unemployed and disabled. Not only that but he'll be able to sell off more NHS departments to private companies (read more here) https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ca ... s-with-nhs and scrap the Human Rights Act ( http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 35374.html ).

Any other Brits on here completely gutted about this?

[sparkles]

Not a Brit but my daughter and I are both anglophiles and we do follow UK politics (often through Have I Got New for You, which, like the Daily Show probably gives a much more accurate picture of how things are than the mainstream media does). Both of us were shocked and upset by the election results and fear that it doesn't bode well for the upcoming US elections either.

[moodygirl86]

It's been a shock! I'm angry that people were gullible enough to swallow the Tories' bullshit and propaganda, particularly about the unemployed. I came off the dole two weeks ago to start work and hopefully will be there until August, but I fear for those who are stuck on benefits. There are 3000,000 UK citizens unemployed and only 400,000 job vacancies, it's not difficult if they do the maths. Yet so many people have only got to watch an episode of Benefits Street (how inflammatory is that!) or listen to a manipulative speech by George Osborne about "setting off for work on a dark winter morning while your unemployed neighbour's curtains are still closed", and suddenly it's an epidemic of laziness that's the reason for high unemployment, not the fact that there are AT LEAST seven people applying for each vacancy. This sort of divide-and-rule shit stirring is exactly the kind of thing Hitler would have done.

[Palimpsest]

Expat here. Gutted doesn't even begin to describe my feelings. My sympathies to those who are about to lose their benefits. It is dreadful.

[Anny Nym]

It's been a shock! I'm angry that people were gullible enough to swallow the Tories' bullshit and propaganda, particularly about the unemployed. I came off the dole two weeks ago to start work and hopefully will be there until August, but I fear for those who are stuck on benefits. There are 3000,000 UK citizens unemployed and only 400,000 job vacancies, it's not difficult if they do the maths. Yet so many people have only got to watch an episode of Benefits Street (how inflammatory is that!) or listen to a manipulative speech by George Osborne about "setting off for work on a dark winter morning while your unemployed neighbour's curtains are still closed", and suddenly it's an epidemic of laziness that's the reason for high unemployment, not the fact that there are AT LEAST seven people applying for each vacancy. This sort of divide-and-rule shit stirring is exactly the kind of thing Hitler would have done.

@moodygirl86

As a Brit, how you think the social map of benefits system and national healthcare will most likely change in the upcoming Tories government period?

What will be cut, how is the social system going to take it?

e.g. this article: http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32545985

What is considered working-age benefits, how is child benefit calculated in UK?

[moodygirl86]

Hi Anny,

Working age in the UK is currently 16 - 64, though the retirement age has recently gone up. Out of work benefits for people of this bracket are Jobseekers' Allowance (self-explanatory), Employment Support Allowance (for those with a temporary medical condition who hope to get back into work) or Personal Independence Payments (for those classed as disabled, though isn't means tested like the others. Used to be known as Disability Living Allowance). Housing Benefit helps with rent and is for anyone on a low income, working or not. You can also get Council Tax Support along with this.

A recent change to JSA, ESA and HB is that they are being replaced by Universal Credit so you get paid once a month in one payment as opposed to separate payments from DWP and the council. Income Support, Child Tax Credit and Working Tax credit are covered too so it's meant to be more convenient - though Council Tax support is not covered, so it's not really universal! (ha). Certain parts of the UK have already had UC rolled out and others haven't.

Child benefit is calculated per child - 20.70 per week for the eldest, and 13.70 per week for each child thereafter. Anyone responsible for a child can get this, though it's only payable to one parent.

No actual cuts have been made as of yet, though many Jobcentres have unofficially introduced sanction targets. I say unofficially because they're not supposed to have targets for things like that, but DWP whistleblowers have confirmed that staff do have pressure from bosses to refer x amount of people per week for sanction and even get disciplined if they don't meet the benchmark. This is the most recent example:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... jobcentres

I don't think this is something that should be targeted. Yes, you do get a minority who abuse the system but not only is it a minority, they also need to be dealt with individually on a case by case basis. It's not right to deliberately give wrong information so someone misses an appointment and has their money stopped. It's called entrapment, and it's just downright immoral. One of them (who was a bit of a prick) tried that crap on me when I signed on last time - told me my signing time with my regular advisor had been changed. I didn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him, so just to be on the safe side, I went at the earlier time that he'd changed it from and queried the later one. Advisor 2 confirmed I had done the right thing by double checking and apologised for the confusion, but I'm glad I trusted my gut and not Advisor 1. I feel sorry for anyone who's lied to and gets in trouble for believing it when they had no reason not to.

[moodygirl86]

I also think that many voters probably had a stick-with-the-devil-you-know attitude as Ed Miliband the Labour leader wouldn't have been much better than Cameron (they'd promised to be tougher on welfare than the Tories), and that's also why there's been a surge in UKIP votes too - though Miliband and Clegg have now resigned from their respective parties, as has UKIP's Nigel Farage.

I suppose with Conservatives, you do expect them to be pro-capitalism, which by definition causes inequality and unfairness. And I understand there is a deficit in the budget and sacrifices do have to be made. In Scameron's words, we are "all in it together". So why aren't the rich being called upon to forfeit their tax breaks for example? Why aren't the likes of Cameron himself, Osborne and IDS willing to step up and "sacrifice" their second homes or generous expense accounts they don't need? Why do us lower-income folk and already-cash-strapped orgs like the NHS have to make all the sacrifices while the ones at the top don't seem to lift a finger to do their bit? That's what I'd like to know.

[Coco]

Not a Brit but my daughter and I are both anglophiles and we do follow UK politics (often through Have I Got New for You, which, like the Daily Show probably gives a much more accurate picture of how things are than the mainstream media does). Both of us were shocked and upset by the election results and fear that it doesn't bode well for the upcoming US elections either.

Wow that is scary thinking that it could happen here. Especially considering that things in the US aren't dire, just mismanaged in favor of the top. I'm really hoping that the oil boom will be enough of a boost to the economy to keep people from believing the safety net lies. It sucks environmentally but i guess energy independence is a decent tradeoff for now. :doh:

If they get in and start screwing with voting requirements they could basically silence a whole segment of the population. So much for crying out for the voiceless, right? What kind of silent solidarity do they care about.

[Peas n carrots]

I wonder if Scotland is having voting down independence remorse? SNP cleaned house, and it's doubtful Cameron is going to do anything to help the rebellious Scots.

To be fair Labour is lost in the woods right now...Milliband was a poor leader, and just don't seem to really have anything going for them other than being the "not Tory and not shitty Lib Dem" party.

One of my expat friends had a baby last week with his wife, and posted the hospital charges before insurance. This was a vaginal, no NICU birth with zero issues and no overnight stay...and it was $17K. He said "to my fellow Brits, you better start getting used to this."

[sparkles]

Wow that is scary thinking that it could happen here. Especially considering that things in the US aren't dire, just mismanaged in favor of the top. I'm really hoping that the oil boom will be enough of a boost to the economy to keep people from believing the safety net lies. It sucks environmentally but i guess energy independence is a decent tradeoff for now. :doh:

If they get in and start screwing with voting requirements they could basically silence a whole segment of the population. So much for crying out for the voiceless, right? What kind of silent solidarity do they care about.

Well, we now have a Republican controlled Congress. If we get a Republican in the White House, coupled with the very high likelihood of having to appoint at least one Supreme Court Justice (RBG isn't in the greatest health)—conservative of course, what's to stop them from dismantling not only Roe v. Wade but many social programs as well? So it could very well happen here.

[Coco]

Well, we now have a Republican controlled Congress. If we get a Republican in the White House, coupled with the very high likelihood of having to appoint at least one Supreme Court Justice (RBG isn't in the greatest health)—conservative of course, what's to stop them from dismantling not only Roe v. Wade but many social programs as well? So it could very well happen here.

Yikes. But then considering how they got spanked last time, in worse economical circumstances, here's hoping. I think people who experienced the horrible voter treatment last time around are going to see it coming and fight it. That was pretty much a landslide, the arrogance take down was fun to witness. :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't believe we are any more fucked than we have been in the last twenty years. After any general election there is always a we are fucked period. I think we are permanently fucked.

Labour cocked up the last time they were in sadly. The coalition was ineffectual. Now it's the Tories turn.......to cock up. The cycle of politics continues.

In regards to benefits it's complicated although Labour did propose fiercer cuts, so there is that. The Tories cut child benefit for higher earners, which I believe was just.As moodygirl said there is a slew of Benefit scammer TV shows which make the issue look like an epidemic which it's not. The minority who scam the system cause more problems than just the financial gain, they are used as the poster guide to all benefits recipients which is damaging. Welfare reform is badly needed just not specifically where they are targeting. When it is more financially viable to claim benefits than work a typical 37.5 hr week, the system is wrong.

@Peas n carrots. No, short answer. Nicola Sturgeon stated she would not pursue another referendum prior to the election. That opened the door for voters to vote without it being a devolution issue. Of course die hard nationals want another referendum.

56 SNP members in Westminster. It's going to get interesting! Check out the new Southern General in Glasgow. NHS Scotland is a different animal than our southern neighbours. For the moment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-g ... t-30987950

[moodygirl86]

When it is more financially viable to claim benefits than work a typical 37.5 hr week, the system is wrong.

That's very true. The anger should be targeted at the employers who aren't paying a living wage. Before I got my current job, I went to quite a few interviews where they were really blatant about illegally paying under the minimum - I reported these companies to NMW Compliance (also to the Jobcentre when I'd found the role through them)! But many don't report it because they are desperate for work, despite the propaganda. Such employers are taking advantage of that desperation and it's wrong. I don't blame anyone for not accepting a job under these conditions.

BTW, I'm on 7.28 per hour at the moment and being emergency taxed (still waiting for them to update my code) but it's still better than benefits! On JSA I could just about have 20 quid a week left over after food and bills if I was really frugal, now my disposable income is 60 quid pw which goes straight into my ISA for a rainy day. Once I'm taken off basic rate, I could probably save 100 pw. But then I'm lucky that I'm single and only have myself to support. It's probably different if you've got kids. I sympathise with anyone who'd love to work but would be worse off for doing so. That really defeats the point of getting a job.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I am British, and yeah, we are fucked.

My news feed is full of people who are not happy that Cameron won again. How could anyone even think scrapping the Human Rights Act is a good idea, and I am glad we have the NHS because I genuinely don't know how people manage to afford to get sick in America.

In other UK politics news, the Muslim guy from the UK's 16 Kids and Counting ran for a local election. He didn't win, Labour did. Not surprising, think its been the same for a few years.

[moodygirl86]

How could anyone even think scrapping the Human Rights Act is a good idea?

Because the repercussions will never affect Camoron personally, that's why! Just as he will never need to sign on himself or be treated on the NHS. At best he's so self-centred and blinded by his own privilege to forget that this isn't the case for everyone; or he just doesn't care. And if the latter, that's just plain evil.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think politicians should have to live like regular people, its all rich people who have never been poor, collected benefits, or worked on minimum wage. I think before they should get in, all politicians from a rich background should have to spend time living in a normal sized house (smallest acceptable for their family size according to the bedroom tax, preferably in a dodgy area), and try out what it is like to live as an unemployed person and receive all benefits and stuff that their family would be entitled to if they were unemployed, and also spend some time living on minimum wage and working long hours doing what people consider the worst low paid jobs.

How can someone who has lived in a mansion their whole life, went to a posh school and never had not enough to eat, know what it is like for all the other people in the country. How do they know what it is like to be poor, and how much people should be expected to live on. How do the know the reality of having to work out which bills can afford to be paid this week and which ones they can let get cut off? Or having to work out how to afford enough food for the family? Or what it is like to use a food bank? Its like living in a different world.

[moodygirl86]

I think politicians should have to live like regular people, its all rich people who have never been poor, collected benefits, or worked on minimum wage. I think before they should get in, all politicians from a rich background should have to spend time living in a normal sized house (smallest acceptable for their family size according to the bedroom tax, preferably in a dodgy area), and try out what it is like to live as an unemployed person and receive all benefits and stuff that their family would be entitled to if they were unemployed, and also spend some time living on minimum wage and working long hours doing what people consider the worst low paid jobs.

Iain Duncan Smith was challenged to do that a couple of years ago. Somebody set up a petition for him to live on 53 pounds a week, the JSA rate for a single person under 25 as of April 2013. Not surprisingly, he never accepted that challenge...wonder why.

[moodygirl86]

This petition to keep the Human Rights act can be signed here:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... ket=blast2

This is especially important after Cameron's latest verbal diarrhoea, basically admitting that he doesn't even think law abiding citizens should have a right to privacy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 46517.html

[ADoyle90815]

I think politicians should have to live like regular people, its all rich people who have never been poor, collected benefits, or worked on minimum wage. I think before they should get in, all politicians from a rich background should have to spend time living in a normal sized house (smallest acceptable for their family size according to the bedroom tax, preferably in a dodgy area), and try out what it is like to live as an unemployed person and receive all benefits and stuff that their family would be entitled to if they were unemployed, and also spend some time living on minimum wage and working long hours doing what people consider the worst low paid jobs.

How can someone who has lived in a mansion their whole life, went to a posh school and never had not enough to eat, know what it is like for all the other people in the country. How do they know what it is like to be poor, and how much people should be expected to live on. How do the know the reality of having to work out which bills can afford to be paid this week and which ones they can let get cut off? Or having to work out how to afford enough food for the family? Or what it is like to use a food bank? Its like living in a different world.

I agree with this since it's a huge problem in both countries, but you won't find someone willing to take on that challenge. Instead, the upper 1% will continue to screw over the poor and middle class. Not only is Britain fucked right now, but the US is really going to be fucked if a Republican manages to get the White House in the next election.

[apandaaries]

I agree with this since it's a huge problem in both countries, but you won't find someone willing to take on that challenge. Instead, the upper 1% will continue to screw over the poor and middle class. Not only is Britain fucked right now, but the US is really going to be fucked if a Republican manages to get the White House in the next election.

It's my dream that we one day have a Congress (and President, and PM) which got paid the minimum wage and standard benefits. I have a feeling what constitutes a "living wage" would swiftly be reconfigured.

Until that day, both governments will probably keep sucking up to corporations at the expense of the working poor, whose numbers will swell until revolution. Maybe. Guess we'll see how it all goes.