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roddma

Why People Become Quiverfull/Fundie

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roddma

What do you think makes become Quiverfull/Fundie or follow any legalstic belief? I have noticed common traits between many of the followers/ex followers:

1) They feel guilt about their past and do not want their kids to repeat it . Vyckie Garrison mentioned her and Warren growing up with drugs and so forth. Many of the QF had a child before meeting their QF husbands-Wendy Jueb.

2) They like a bunch of rules. Some people just feel comfortable with a bunch of rules. It helps them control their lives better with having to think much.

 

3)They want to belong and identify with a group.

This article explains more. I dont know if all people who belong to cults are gullible. Smart people can get sucked into sucked into cults especially if they are at a crossroads in their life. I see no reason to break link.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/265-who ... ts-and-why

Edited by OnceUponATime
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Coco

Family and friends who are already in the group. This is why i think the Duggar kids would have a difficult time walking away, especially with their parents' going to the Big Sandy conferences every year and sending the kids to Journey to the Heart and Alert.

For our old church, it was a very slow gradual process in the youth group. The entire group became less and less strict together. Now most of the people in the younger generation have left behind a lot of the old rules, especially about music, fundie clothes, and movies. People leaving this way is a major fear among the leaders of the groups i've been a part of. They would spend a lot of time preaching about wayward hearts and the how dangerous it was to even let up a tiny bit on the strict rules. There was no allowance for grace, the preachers intentionally left out a person's ability to stay godly without following all the rules to the letter. :roll:

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Jana814

I think some people become Quiverfull/Fundie cause they r looking for a place to belong. They might be feel disenchanted or not accepted in the "real world" & they want to belong somewhere.

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church_of_dog

It seems there is something about our psyche that is attracted to extremism.

"If X is good, I'm going to be the X-est physically possible!"

And also, if someone is looking outside themselves for the right religious path, I think there is a natural affinity for rules because they can define the boundaries of "the right path" -- as was said above. For some people the rules seem to be the entirety of their belief system -- even when some rules contradict other rules...

I have never been religious, but I have been involved in psychologically-focused groups that provide the same sense of community and "this is how we do it here" rules and guidelines and rituals. I think it played the same role in my life that religion does for others. I don't even think of it as a negative. I'm not involved now due to geographic reasons, but I can't say that I wouldn't continue to be, if I lived closer. Maybe, maybe not.

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DaffyDill

I think people become fundies, or indulge in other similar extreme forms of behaviour as there are so many often dreadful things happening in our world the individual has no real control over. We're told what to to do and how to live by everyone from law enforcement, to Governments, to family and friends to even the media dictating appearances and/or lifestyles.

Yet, innocents still starve, good people die, devastating storms and droughts lash the earth, planes go missing, wars break out. As an individual, there's not a lot anyone can do - it's all out of their control. So, some people seek to gain control, if not over the big things, at least their own lives. They give themselves strict rules to follow, a regime to live by and feel as if they regain some control. They get a feeling of belonging with others in the group and even a feeling of superiority over those who don't participate. They feel they matter, they're proactive in their little world, instead of reactive in a larger world.

So umm yeah, tl;dr version: they do it to feel some measure of control in a world they cannot control :D

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acheronbeach

The fundies I know have come from awful homes - lots of crime and mental illness - and these rules are a safety net, or maybe a form of self-medication. The preacher gives them strict rules for having a perfect, Godly family, and they think by following those rules, they can avoid repeating sad family history.

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salex

In the 90s, Christian talk radio started featuring a lot of people pimping their books about, promoting the quiverful lifestyle. The standard radio show about it was "We started out like everyone, using birth control and living a standard upper middle class life and then God touched my (usually the woman) heart. I was killing my babies/not trusting God/ running out of things to do around the house so I prayed about it.

There were multiple arguments for it I heard over the years. Here are some I remember, in no particular order:

You can't really be anti abortion/pro life if you use contraceptives.

You can't call your self a true Christian if you don't trust God, and using contraceptives proves you don't trust God.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, and that is the fault of Christians who use contraceptives.

God will expand your income to meet your financial needs if you trust him and not use contraceptives.

Children are a blessing from God. Limiting the number of children you have tells God you don't want his blessings.

Contraceptives were introduced by the Evil People (feminists) who brought you Planned Parenthood, abortion and divorce.

It is easier to breed new "True Believer" Christians than to convert them.

The underlying messages that seemed to me always on the edges, and sometimes actually stated were:

White people need to start having more kids, since they are on the way to being out-bred by non-whites.

We have allowed women too much freedom in the modern world and they often work for a few years before having kids and once their 2-4 kids go to school. We must hobble women and chain them to the home and few things do that better than constant pregnancy and care of infants. (especially if you toss in homeschooling) So, less control of her life and less ability to leave for the woman.

Men are less likely to be able to leave if they face child support for many many children. And they are less likely to be able to "wait til the kids are grown" to leave if their marriage is encouraged to pump out kids as long as possible.

Even for the people who didn't embrace full on Quiverful, it likely encouraged people to have another kid or two-- as an internal proof that they had real faith.

Dominion, baby, Dominion!

We have to be more legalistic within Christianity than the Taliban is within Islam.

Based on the stated demographics of their listener base, Bott Radio (which is the network I listen(ed) to) tells potential advertisers their listeners are more likely than the community average to have 3 or more cars, be what they call "business professionals", college graduates, have a home valued between 400K and 499K and have a family that included a homemaker with kids. bottradionetwork.com/sponsors/become-a-sponsor/

I will say that listening to Bott Radio Network,and hearing their dominion/anti-woman and heavily politicized versions of Christianity has, as much as anything, moved me further from the practice of Christianity. I am not driving as much as I did,and since I only listened in the car, I don't hear them as much, but I view them and many of the ministries who broadcast on their airwaves as dangerous.

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Eternalbluepearl

Wow! Ok this might seem

Really obvious but I never thought about the homeschool movement being a way to keep women at home! Also the whole men having so many kids they will be afraid to ever leave. Wow! To the fundies I say: People hand over their power in lots if ways, everyday. Wake up people!

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Sundaymorning

One thing many women turned fundie seem to have in common is that they grew up in "broken" families and were generally not to happy with their life. Some had children out of wedlock at a very young age, therefore little education, bad jobs and so on. Of course, with these factors in place, their life was pretty hard.

And their very clever conclusion was that the reason their life didn't work out so well was because of evil feminism and women liberation. And that the solution was to become a submissive helpmeet to a Christian fundie.

If you look at certain blogs like ZsuZsus for example, she will write once in a while how glad and proud she is that her daughters have a father who is present. One thing she didn't have, since her mother got divorced and moved far away from her father.

Others get guilt-tripped. Best example: Michelle and JimBob Duggar. They used birth control, and didn't want more than 2-3 children. That was until some doctor told them that the pill caused an abortion. So basically, that is was their fault that their "child" died. And well, after they got convinced, that they killed their child with evil birth control, they decided to become quiverfull. Not because they liked children so much, but because they felt they had to. And it shows to this day, since J'Chelle is never very interested in her children, but rather shoves them off to her older daughters, who have to raise them.

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longtimelurker6

I think it's a desire for easy answers to questions that don't really have easy answers.

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roddma

The thing is most of them still lived normal lives like the Bateses and Duggars. None of them grew up Fundie. They seem to be the only ones in their immediate family who follow those beliefs. While it's easy to pinpoint where the DUggars came from,.it's really hard to say what sucked the Bates in.

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louisa05
I think it's a desire for easy answers to questions that don't really have easy answers.

This is what I was going to say. All of the people I know who are fundamentalist to some degree just want easy answers and guarantees. One high school classmate who is an uber-conservative Catholic told me when I converted that it is "so great to be Catholic because you never have to figure anything out, you can just do what the Church says". Most Catholics, outside of her diocese (the Most Conservative Diocese in America--tm), would not agree with that in the least bit, but that is how she sees it. And I have long thought were she not raised Catholic and had not remained in a bubble where I was literally the only person close to her who was not Catholic until my conversion, she would have been caught by fundagelicals eventually.

A lot of the evangelicals I know are very frightened of the changing world, too. A theology that gives rules and answers is much more comforting. Those raised in that world have been taught to be afraid of the non-fundagelical world, too. Everything and everyone is out to get them. Everyone makes fun of Creed, but the line in "Arms Wide Open" where Stapp sings about his then unborn child "I hope he's not like me, I hope he understands that he can take this life and hold it by the hand;and he can greet the world with arms wide open" always resonated with me. It is an apt metaphor--fundagelicals are closed in and fearful of everyone not like them, you have to hide from the threatening world. Absolutely anything can threaten your faith--especially anything you enjoy too much that isn't church (the Maxwells are the obvious example of this). At the Christian school every fall, there was handwringing about college football in this football obsessed state. They wanted to enjoy it because it was fun, but they were kind of afraid to, words spoken every single season without fail: "but you can't get a stadium full of people to cheer for Jesus". With that came debates about if wearing red on game day was worshiping false idols and other such nonsense. My college roommate, who was raised fundagelical, gave up traveling because she looked forward to it and loved seeing new places too much and she had to save that enthusiasm for Jesus. Talk about closing your arms to the world.

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RosyDaisy

Two words....power and control. This also the case among quiverful fundies who are living in poverty

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Toothfairy

I would like to know why too. Why would you trade a life of freedom, going to school, getting an education to being controlled, living in poverty and popping out babies? And ruining your innocent kids lives. I think most fundies come from bad homes and want a sense of control over something or someone or they want guidance. Most need some form of therapy. But I still don't get why fundies turn fundie.

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louisa05
I would like to know why too. Why would you trade a life of freedom, going to school, getting an education to being controlled, living in poverty and popping out babies? And ruining your innocent kids lives. I think most fundies come from bad homes and want a sense of control over something or someone or they want guidance. Most need some form of therapy. But I still don't get why fundies turn fundie.

My college roommate lives in the country, has seven children and homeschools and isolates them. She was raised evangelical (not fundie--wore pants, watched television, mom worked outside of home, etc...) and her husband was raised United Methodist (which is a pretty liberal denomination). They go to a United Methodist Church. Neither of them had a bad childhood in any sense whatsoever and they both went to public schools and secular colleges. But they are buying into a lot of the rhetoric of fundie homeschooling. And when I talk to them, it is because of fear. They are afraid of people dragging their children astray. When they see a story about shootings in the inner city of the largest city in our state, they imagine that happening everywhere in the city and talk to us about how amazed they are that we will go there to shop, eat out, etc...because it is "dangerous" and "full of gangs" (we live 14 miles from the outer edge of the city). They think gay people recruit and that's how sexuality actually works. They think every neighborhood in every town in existence is full of pedophiles so they live in a too small farmhouse inherited from his parents that is 55 miles from the husband's work. They think that everyone else has a vested interest in their children not being practicing Christians so they have to be careful to be "the only influence" in their children's lives.

In short, they believe that their own happy childhoods where they were not converted by atheists, abused by pedophiles, recruited by gangs or gay people (or maybe both, a gay gang? j/k), or simply convinced by nefarious outsiders to hate their parents was the exception and not at all normal or possible now.

Like I said in a previous post: fear is a huge factor. Another friend of mine who was raised a fundie homeschooler walked away from it all gradually in the last 15 years or so. She often says that she still struggles with the impulse to be scared of everything, especially when it comes to her kids.

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longtimelurker6
I would like to know why too. Why would you trade a life of freedom, going to school, getting an education to being controlled, living in poverty and popping out babies?

Fear.

Of the outside world, and of responsibility

All of those things require making choices, and making choices requires taking responsibility.

When they adopt a way of life in which they officially have no choice, they don't have to take responsibility. Things may still go wrong, but it won't be their fault.

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BullyJBG

No one helps them keep it in balance; they hear an "extreme" sermon on one level, and get deeper and deeper.

Interesting, how people think that gays "recruit". And others seem to think that homosexuality is contagious. So, to turn it around, what makes people become gay? Biological evidence that it's genetic keeps on coming up but being disproved. I don't think anyone really WANTS to be. It may be the "thorn in the flesh" talked about in 2 Corinthians 12. Or, maybe it's another vulnerability pull, which is the same thing that draws people towards extreme fundie-ism. Keep talking. It's probably therapeutic in one way or another.

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CynicMom

I think thisarticle from Love, Joy, Feminism shows that some people can be attracted to the lifestyle because they want to be a stay-at-home to a lot of kids so they drift to the ideology that elevates that.

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Dandruff

I think an inferiority complex may be a factor, at least among the men. It must be very tempting for some to choose a religion/cult that empowers them with instant qualifications, authority, and supporters.

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delightfullyduggar

I like the person that said we like to take everything to an extreme.

I also like the fear answers and guilt answers.

I think every case is different but one of the 3 things above plays a big role.

Christianity, biblically speaking isn't rule bound. The whole point of Jesus coming was to free us from the law and to follow Him. (This is a believers view). But fundamentalism makes rules to provide comfort.

Leaders are able to pull in people because of the guilt people have from their past lives. That's what you see from Michelle Duggar. We don't know much about Kelly Bates but we do know she went to callege & her and Gil lived a normal life before. The leaders of those cults feed on guilt.

Those leaders are sick people usually desiring supreme control. They're smart and manipulative.

And once you're sucked in it's not easy to get out. They're so enmeshed that they can't see any differently.

I don't want to compare Gothard to Hitler but I will say the same mind control Hitler was able to have is the same thing cult leaders have. We've seen people flock to all kinds of extremist groups in the past.

It's really sad but it's a big part of how the world works. It's why we need to study history in order to watch for the red flags and prevent things from happening in the future.

It's also why we should always evaluate what we believe. And research and study to make sure we're not listening to a person with harmful motives.

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Jana814
The thing is most of them still lived normal lives like the Bateses and Duggars. None of them grew up Fundie. They seem to be the only ones in their immediate family who follow those beliefs. While it's easy to pinpoint where the DUggars came from,.it's really hard to say what sucked the Bates in.

Have to agree with you. I always wondered what their families felt about this. Maybe some didn't say anything cause they didn't want to be completely cut off from them.

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It'sFunToRun

For me (1) doesn't apply at all; I actually regret that I didn't make more trouble/do more wacky hijinks when I was younger. (2) and (3) do apply though.

The thing about liking rules sounds really weird, and when I was a teenager I would have sworn that I didn't like rules because I would have just thought of the stupid rules that bothered me, like not being able to go to certain friends' houses (as an adult I still think I had too many restrictions as a kid). I'm a little more mature now though, and when I think about it, the happiest times in my life were when I was in a strict framework like a summer camp and had to wake up at a certain time, eat at a certain time, and all of my activities were planned. So realizing that those were a bunch of rules too, I think that I am a person who likes rules.

I think that number 3 is true for a lot of religions, for example FLDS living on the compound, or orthodox Jews living in Jerusalem would have a very strong sense of community and belonging. I don't think that would apply to Duggar types though because they tend to isolate themselves except for a few conferences a year, so I think even regular Christians who go to church twice a week and are involved in church functions would have a lot better sense of belonging.

I think that Derrick Dillard became interested in the Duggars because he genuinely and independently decided that he wanted to have a huge family, and that appealed to him more than other aspects were objectionable to him. If someone is already conservative christian, and they want to have a bunch of kids, it might make sense to become quiverful even if it's for lifestyle and not ideological reasons. After enough time you can mostly convince yourself that you believe, as long as you're having a good time.

Finally, I think a big reason people become fundy is because all of their friends are doing it, or one really awesome person is. There are a lot of really super awesome people in the world, and they are in all sorts of different groups; Christianity, Judaism, hospital nurses, military, dance, ... just to name a few. Does anyone else still think of someone they haven't seen in over a year but who impacted their life in such a big good way even if you only knew them for a short time? It's hard I guess to make yourself realize that XXX is amazing because XXX is an amazing person, and not because XXX belongs to whatever group he or she belongs to.

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TrueRebel1

The first generation of homeschoolers/fundies/quiverfull/Gothardites seemed drawn to that lifestyle because of the state of families in the late 70's. They were young adults and starting families then, just coming out of the hippie movement. They didn't want their children to do what them and their peers had done as teens. They were over the rebellion. They saw the damage it did to their lives, and wanted better for their kids. So when someone (Gothard, etc.) presented a formula they could use to guarantee their children would be upstanding, non-rebellious children, they ate it up.

By the early 90's, these fundie families were well-established. They had several children, and had homeschooled for quite a few years. As their children became teens and young adults, there was a re-birth of the fundie movement (IMO). This second generation began teaching the fundie ways themselves, and as they began courting and marrying, they multiplied the fundie movement.

And then along the way, thru the 80's, 90's and beyond, there are always the already established (normal) families who join fundiedom because it looks so attractive to them. These cute, stair-step families with sweet wives and manly husbands -- what could be better? Often these families join for a while, realize it's not all they thought it was, and leave.

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Talitha Cumi
No one helps them keep it in balance; they hear an "extreme" sermon on one level, and get deeper and deeper.

Interesting, how people think that gays "recruit". And others seem to think that homosexuality is contagious. So, to turn it around, what makes people become gay? Biological evidence that it's genetic keeps on coming up but being disproved. I don't think anyone really WANTS to be. It may be the "thorn in the flesh" talked about in 2 Corinthians 12. Or, maybe it's another vulnerability pull, which is the same thing that draws people towards extreme fundie-ism. Keep talking. It's probably therapeutic in one way or another.

Um, given that homosexuality occurs in animals of many species (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals), it's pretty hard to argue that it's not genetic. Unless you think sheep are making a conscious choice.

As far as wanting to be or not, are you talking about making a choice at birth, or regretting what you were born as? Because the whole point of gay pride is because gays are not ashamed and don't regret being gay. It's not a thorn in the flesh. It's not a vulnerability. It's a part of them, to be celebrated like any other. I'm pretty much a 50/50 bi person, and God knows, I'm as happy about the gay side as the straight side. I love being me!

:gay-rainbow: :gay-rainbowflag::gay-umbrella::gay-rainbowflag: :gay-rainbow:

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