ANother Gem from Pat Robertson

[roddma]

Now he tells an 80 yr old woman in financial trouble to get a job and sell on Ebay. Not breaking link since it is raw story.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/04/p ... f-on-ebay/

[Four is Enough]

But don't stop tithing. Never stop tithing.

[jerkit]

"Claim your blessing"

Oooooh that's all I have to do?!

[doggie]

lets not be a good christian and help her out lets just keep taking money and helping yourself just as jesus said to do :roll: really shows how little mega preachers care about their flock.

[Miranda]

Well, so much for the idea of the church taking care of the elderly and the widows. You're on your own!

[doggie]

Well, so much for the idea of the church taking care of the elderly and the widows. You're on your own!

he is not a church televeangelists could care less about the people as long as the money l=keeps flowing in.

[Jana814]

What an ass!! Who says that to a 80 year old!

[Anny Nym]

I have no idea who this whackjob is, yet I am 100% sure he is one of those who are against "ebil communist" universal healthcare.

[FloraKitty35]

I have no idea who this whackjob is, yet I am 100% sure he is one of those who are against "ebil communist" universal healthcare.

Although his Dad had evil socialist healthcare of the finest sort since he was Congressman (1933-1946) and later (1946-1966) US Senator Absalom Robertson of Virginia.

[Anny Nym]

Although his Dad had evil socialist healthcare of the finest sort since he was Congressman (1933-1946) and later (1946-1966) US Senator Absalom Robertson of Virginia.

Wait what?

I admit it, will never fathom the US-american health care system! :lol:

Also, the 80yr old lady in question states "our tithe is over 10 percent" <- why so much? 10 percent of what? Aren´t they both retired?

Could someone shed some light hwo this works in the USA? WHich, I think, is way different from how it works in austria.

For example, as members of the Catholic Church, in Austria we pay (rather rigid) Kirchensteuer/ "church rate".

Last year, minus tax detuctibe + minus deduct. amount for the kids and deduct for maternity leave brought it down to ca. 450 I had to pay for the entire year in the end.

SO, WHY FOR ALL WHAT IS GOOD AN HOLY does a senior citizen, who is likely retired and has medical trouble pay over 10 % tithe?!

Shouldn´t they not pay way less than the 10% ?

What´s the law for this?

[Loveday]

There is no law, as such, on paying tithes. Individual, independent churches can make tithing requirements for membership, but most mainstream denominations don't enforce those requirements, and many of them don't even HAVE requirements. I believe--though I could be mistaken--that the Mormon church requires 10%, and keeps track to make sure its members follow the rule. Generally speaking, any money you give to your church is totally voluntary and there's no minimum amount.

As for senior citizens (or the 'elderly' as the Maxwells call them :? ), I can't imagine any mainstream church or even some less than mainstream ones, guilting them into giving a tithe. Certainly not in my fairly conservative Catholic parish. In fact, they don't even suggest tithing; we're given numbered envelopes to use if we want them to keep track of our giving for tax purposes (the church office will send us a spreadsheet if we ask for one at the end of the year), but there's no minimum we have to put into those envelopes, and no one cares if we miss using them for a few weeks (or almost a year in my case :embarrassed: ).

Tithing isn't always about money, either. It can be a gift of your time, or donations to the church food pantry, working at the women's club annual book sale, or opening your home to a Bible study during Lent. These are things that senior citizens can do, if they still feel called to tithe, without burdening themselves with financial difficulty.

Pat Robertson and his 'claim your blessing'/sell your tchotchkes on eBay nonsense is way out of line. As usual. :roll:

[louisa05]

There is no law, as such, on paying tithes. Individual, independent churches can make tithing requirements for membership, but most mainstream denominations don't enforce those requirements, and many of them don't even HAVE requirements. I believe--though I could be mistaken--that the Mormon church requires 10%, and keeps track to make sure its members follow the rule. Generally speaking, any money you give to your church is totally voluntary and there's no minimum amount.

As for senior citizens (or the 'elderly' as the Maxwells call them :? ), I can't imagine any mainstream church or even some less than mainstream ones, guilting them into giving a tithe. Certainly not in my fairly conservative Catholic parish. In fact, they don't even suggest tithing; we're given numbered envelopes to use if we want them to keep track of our giving for tax purposes (the church office will send us a spreadsheet if we ask for one at the end of the year), but there's no minimum we have to put into those envelopes, and no one cares if we miss using them for a few weeks (or almost a year in my case :embarrassed: ).

Tithing isn't always about money, either. It can be a gift of your time, or donations to the church food pantry, working at the women's club annual book sale, or opening your home to a Bible study during Lent. These are things that senior citizens can do, if they still feel called to tithe, without burdening themselves with financial difficulty.

Pat Robertson and his 'claim your blessing'/sell your tchotchkes on eBay nonsense is way out of line. As usual. :roll:

Our parish also gives envelopes but doesn't even do any sort of appeal or asking from the pulpit. In RCIA (Catholic conversion class), we were told you can give time, talent and treasure and parishes know that the last is not always possible. My husband and I give a little bit financially (Only around $200 total last year). But we also teach confirmation class to middle schoolers. An hour a week with a room full of middle schoolers is worth way more than the cash we give.

[PennySycamore]

Some fundie churches emphasize tithing. I remember the preacher at my mom's funeral going on about how she'd always set aside her tithe as soon as she got paid. How the fuck does he know that? He didn't know her from Adam's housecat!! He wasn't my mom's Methodist pastor; he was my sister's Southern Baptist pastor.

[louisa05]

Some fundie churches emphasize tithing. I remember the preacher at my mom's funeral going on about how she'd always set aside her tithe as soon as she got paid. How the fuck does he know that? He didn't know her from Adam's housecat!! He wasn't my mom's Methodist pastor; he was my sister's Southern Baptist pastor.

A lot of evangelical and fundamentalist churches are extremely legalistic about tithing. My college roommate was brought up evangelical and was convinced that if she did not give (at least--more was okay) exactly 10% of any money she got --including $10 bills in b-day cards from grandparents--it was a sin and she would suffer for it. The Christian school I worked for demanded that churches send them a "giving report" on all employees because we were supposed to be tithing a minimum of exactly 10%. The church I was attending then informed them that they did not give out that information or keep track for any reason other than supplying a tax form to members who requested one. That caused me a bit of trouble, but I was grateful for their stand.

In my RCIA, the priest teaching told us that the 10% tithe was Old Testament law and not required of us today. Parishioners should (as I said already above) give time, talent and treasure as they are able. For some people, that may not be money.

[Anny Nym]

Thanks everyone for clarification, having to give even tithe from your birthday money is quite... cultic? Does this rule apply to letssay teenager making some pocked money in evengelical fundamentalist churches too ?

So I think I should be happy with our Kirchensteuer arrangement in comparison then ! :?

It´s 1,1 percent annually by law, but in reality you can just deduct EVERYTHING: So my financee could deduct my maternity leave on his annually church rate too, after he asked and you can deduct when you just bought a house/apartment, when you do voluntary work (inside/outside church community), of course if you had extraordinary burden of any kind, if your child starts school... actually, one just has to call and higgle a bit <- Which is one of our nation´s favorite leisure time activity in february, by the way :lol:

[louisa05]

Thanks everyone for clarification, having to give even tithe from your birthday money is quite... cultic? Does this rule apply to letssay teenager making some pocked money in evengelical fundamentalist churches too ?

So I think I should be happy with our Kirchensteuer arrangement in comparison then ! :?

It´s 1,1 percent annually by law, but in reality you can just deduct EVERYTHING: So my financee could deduct my maternity leave on his annually church rate too, after he asked and you can deduct when you just bought a house/apartment, when you do voluntary work (inside/outside church community), of course if you had extraordinary burden of any kind, if your child starts school... actually, one just has to call and higgle a bit <- Which is one of our nation´s favorite leisure time activity in february, by the way :lol:

My friends who grew up evangelical had to tithe 10% from their allowances, any money they earned such as babysitting, mowing lawns, etc...b-day cash, basically everything. When we were student teaching, my roommate and I got money from our parents (rent and a bit more for utilities and such) and earned extra wherever we could (holding a regular job is difficult when student teaching). She worked Saturday morning at a mall store, did some babysitting, and taught piano lessons one evening a week. She would sit with a calculator each week to figure out exactly what she had to tithe for the week and those calculations included what her parents sent for rent and expenses.

Lots of those churches are extremely legalistic about it and I have heard of pastors, elders or board members approaching people (adults only, I should say) to "correct" them if they believed they were not giving a full 10% of everything. At the Christian school, I frequently heard the debate about whether you had to figure 10% of your net or gross income. Most of the churches represented there, go figure, said gross.

Meanwhile, in my Catholic parish, the only person who knows who gives what is the office manager that tracks it so members can have a tax statement each year. No one else is allowed to look at those records.

[browncoatslytherin]

i think we should start a "pat robertson is a tool" thing for the google bot

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

My sister tried to tell me that you should tithe even on wedding gifts. I was like- What? That's craziness. Most of the fundie wedding gifts she got looked like dollar store stuff anyway, but I still thought that was nuts.

[jerkit]

My sister tried to tell me that you should tithe even on wedding gifts. I was like- What? That's craziness. Most of the fundie wedding gifts she got looked like dollar store stuff anyway, but I still thought that was nuts.

Like on tangible gifts too? Let's see, 10% of this sheet is about 8 inches. Mr. Jerkit, grab me the scissors!

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

Like on tangible gifts too? Let's see, 10% of this sheet is about 8 inches. Mr. Jerkit, grab me the scissors!

Luckily they no longer accept tithes in goods- otherwise she seriously might have given them some of the gifts. She was trying to figure out the value of each gift and asked me to come over and help her out. Once she wouldn't give it up, I just seriously lowballed the $$ amount on each item.

[louisa05]

Luckily they no longer accept tithes in goods- otherwise she seriously might have given them some of the gifts. She was trying to figure out the value of each gift and asked me to come over and help her out. Once she wouldn't give it up, I just seriously lowballed the $$ amount on each item.

College roommate and her husband only tithed 10% of the cash when they got married. I remember her debating once in college if she had to tithe 10% of the value of a gift certificate and deciding she didn't. It is a seriously obsessive thing with some of these people.

[nokidsmom]

A lot of evangelical and fundamentalist churches are extremely legalistic about tithing. My college roommate was brought up evangelical and was convinced that if she did not give (at least--more was okay) exactly 10% of any money she got --including $10 bills in b-day cards from grandparents--it was a sin and she would suffer for it.

This reminds me of a friend of mine. She moved in with her daughter and son-in-law after leaving her husband. Her financial situation had deteriorated to the point where she had no money (money issues were part of the problem with hubby). Kids pitched in for a one way airplane ticket, I picked her up from her home and took her to the airport. At the airport, I gave her $100 and a phone card because I didn't want her traveling cross country with no money and no means of being able to communicate.

A few months later, her daughter and son-in-law learn about the $100 because she saved it. They insisted she tithe 10%. She's not even a member of their church but IIRC attended because she was in the household. Yes, someone who was homeless, jobless and broke who needed every penny she could get so she could get back on her feet. I was furious when I heard about it.

Edited to fix typos

[Childless]

Ah, the joys of not attending church. Tithing is something I don't have to worry about at all. :D

[Coco]

A lot of evangelical and fundamentalist churches are extremely legalistic about tithing. My college roommate was brought up evangelical and was convinced that if she did not give (at least--more was okay) exactly 10% of any money she got --including $10 bills in b-day cards from grandparents--it was a sin and she would suffer for it. The Christian school I worked for demanded that churches send them a "giving report" on all employees because we were supposed to be tithing a minimum of exactly 10%. The church I was attending then informed them that they did not give out that information or keep track for any reason other than supplying a tax form to members who requested one. That caused me a bit of trouble, but I was grateful for their stand.

In my RCIA, the priest teaching told us that the 10% tithe was Old Testament law and not required of us today. Parishioners should (as I said already above) give time, talent and treasure as they are able. For some people, that may not be money.

The fundie company that my hubby and i worked for (where we met actually) would take tithe automatically out of our paychecks and put it into a fund for an orphanage. An orphanage the church managed, btw, the church affiliated with the fundie business. They had so many ways to juggle money around it was ridiculous. (it was optional but expected for the employees to do this).

[Coco]

We haven't tithed much in years, and it used to almost give me an ulcer because i thought God would never bless us. Turns out we're doing better than ever now. :D

My parents believe that God miraculously kept some of their vehicles on the road and made some of the belts and car parts like oil filters last almost indefinitely because of their faithful tithing. They also tell a story about how once my dad sacrificially gave when he and mom were broke with small children... and the same week a farmer hired dad to do work for him for exactly what he gave. Raised on stories like this, you just have to believe. :lol: I think there is something to it, but i don't think God is waiting to curse people who don't give, like televangelists probably wish they could scare people into thinking. :evil: