Is birth control ok if....

[helloemi]

Ok, so I have to be on birth control for medical reasons at the moment. Husband and I were initially anti-birth control, but once I started getting sick (after 2 months of "leaving it up to God") we figured it was probably a sign to go on it.

With certain illnesses (lupus in my situation) if you get pregnant at the wrong time, the antibodies in your system will attack the baby and may cause you to miscarry. This would obviously be bad for my health, but in my mind, NOT being on birth control is the same as having an abortion because I am knowingly getting pregnant when my body can't support a pregnancy.

I know that certain fundies (Zsuzsu) would say it's up to God, but would a fundy-lite agree?

What is the logic?

Are there reasons when it is ever ok?

Thanks for the input :-)

Decisions like this suck, especially when they do go against what you want for you and your family. It angers me so much to know that people think I am making a mistake by doing whats best for my health.

[longskirtlotsakids]

I'm trying to figure out what you are asking.

If you are asking if your personal decisions are ever your personal decisions when applied to Christianity, the answer is a resounding no. It's God first, your wellbeing, family life, and personal convictions last.

If you are asking the general public for permission though, go ahead. Heck, I don;t even are if you have an abortion on my tax dollars, seeing as how the USA is fine using tax dollars to blow up the middle eastern people.

[fundiefan]

Whatever fundie or fundie-lite beliefs are, you have to do what is best for you. It's not up to anyone else to set the ground rules for your life, no matter how loudly they shout or what rooftop they stand on to yell at the world.

[debrand]

I think that she is asking if a fundies would still refuse to prevent pregnancy despite the knowledge that it will end in miscarriage.

[helloemi]

Ok, sorry for my vague question :-)

I am not anti-abortion at all, I am not anti-birth control either.

My husband and I just decided we wanted to start early in our marriage on a family, but God had other plans I guess. This is causing confusion I guess.

We are very "liberal" Christians, but he has some fundy-lite friends from his Liberty University days. I see their posts on facebook and they make me cringe.

I was just wondering if anyone knew the general Quiverful guidelines about birth control when it came to something like I was describing. Didn't mean to sound like I was asking permission or seeking guidance. I am happily protected at the moment! lol

I am just imagining the lives of women in patriarchal lifestyles who are faced with a disease. While I know all families tend to have their own take on what the bible says....I can't imagine if Zsuzsu found herself sick and her husband's response. It really makes me sad for these women.

*Debrand: Exactly :-)

[Patsy]

Part of ZsuZsu's anti-IVF screed was that most embryos don't survive implantation, so it's the equivalent of playing 'Russian roulette' - you don't actively kill them but you place them in that risky situation. I have wondered if she extends that to women who know they have a high chance of miscarriage using birth control - would that make it ok?

[Austin]

My understanding is that no matter the situation, one is to in no way interfere with the natural processes of ovulation, fertilization, pregnancy, etc. For example, Doug Phillips and his ilk believe that if a woman has an ectopic pregnancy, she should not have surgery to remove it, even though it will most likely kill her if it's not removed. To them, that's abortion/murder - of the baybee, and the woman should just trust God.

[MrsYoungie]

I think that she is asking if a fundies would still refuse to prevent pregnancy despite the knowledge that it will end in miscarriage.

Because 15 miscarriages = God's will, but birth control = burn in hell.

[Eponine]

As I understand it, they would be against what you're doing. I suppose they'd probably say that if you did get pregnant there is the chance, however slim that might be and however dangerous it is to the mother, that the fetus could be viable. Any sort of interference in that is not acceptable.

With QF, if it's a choice between the mother and the possible-baby, they will always go with the possible-baby.

[maybeizfundie]

If they are QF, then they would look for alternatives to birth control, likely. For both the mother's health and in preventing miscarriages. But ultimately it would be accepted as God's will. In QF thinking, it would not in the least be like getting an abortion, because a: the intent is *not* to get rid of the baby and b: It is God who gives and takes away, and the human part is simply to be open to life and willing to accept each new child as God's gift.

If they are non-QF fundie (Dobson et al) or fundie-lite whose philosophy is anti-abortion and pro-larger-family, but not opposed to some level of "interferance", birth control would be a perfectly viable option, and might even be considered the most ethical option.

[Joykins]

fundy-lite prolife non QF has no problem with birth control in general, although they may shun certain methods that inhibit/prevent implantation.

I don't know the QF philosophy on this.

[camdendayton]

I don't know a lot about fundie-lites but my guess is it'd be hard to convince them that BC was a better choice than "God's will."

[maybeizfundie]

Also, for those who are QF, what they would say to you about your particular situation would vary.

For some it is set in stone, no birth control, ever, for anyone. These would be people whose identity is wrapped up in this one concept so that it is the central aspect of their faith, rather than a side issue resultant from their beliefs.

For others, while they might not use birth control, even in difficult situations, they also understand and accept that others interpret Scripture differently, and they also take the view that living in what Christians consider a "fallen world" where life is just imperfect, there are situations where someone could use birth control with an attitude that is open to children--situations like yours.

The latter describes most QF people that I know personally, but I know there are plenty of the former out there, sadly.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Ok, so I have to be on birth control for medical reasons at the moment. Husband and I were initially anti-birth control, but once I started getting sick (after 2 months of "leaving it up to God") we figured it was probably a sign to go on it.

With certain illnesses (lupus in my situation) if you get pregnant at the wrong time, the antibodies in your system will attack the baby and may cause you to miscarry. This would obviously be bad for my health, but in my mind, NOT being on birth control is the same as having an abortion because I am knowingly getting pregnant when my body can't support a pregnancy.

I know that certain fundies (Zsuzsu) would say it's up to God, but would a fundy-lite agree?

What is the logic?

Are there reasons when it is ever ok?

Thanks for the input :-)

Decisions like this suck, especially when they do go against what you want for you and your family. It angers me so much to know that people think I am making a mistake by doing whats best for my health.

Most fundie-lites I know(especially ones who have actually been around these kinds of situations) would agree that if BC is needed temporarily for health reasons then it's okay.

At any rate, it's a very personal decision so whatever you and your husband believe is right shouldn't be something that you would necessarily have to discuss with all of his Liberty friends. I hope you're feeling better soon!

[helloemi]

Most fundie-lites I know(especially ones who have actually been around these kinds of situations) would agree that if BC is needed temporarily for health reasons then it's okay.

At any rate, it's a very personal decision so whatever you and your husband believe is right shouldn't be something that you would necessarily have to discuss with all of his Liberty friends. I hope you're feeling better soon!

Oh no! I should specify by friends I mean people who went to college with him ten years ago, that have friended me on facebook and I enjoy the opportunity to have an inside view on "how the other side lives". :-)

When I see notes that are obituaries for miscarried babies at 5 weeks and resulting conversations about how everyones miscarried babies will play together in heaven, proclamations that a woman is not complete until she has birthed a child naturally...

While I get annoyed on a daily basis...I just can't de-friend out of morbid curiosity.

Thanks for the insight everyone :-)

[bananacat]

Fundies are extremely superstitious and never accurately link cause and effect. So they would view all miscarriages as punishment for some sin. They would claim that BC use, not being faithful enough, previous abortions, or even having troll dolls in your house (yes, I'm serious) are what's causing miscarriages, not the actual cause of Lupus or just incompatible genes of the embryo. They do not like to accept scientific findings so even the most obvious things like certain diseases causing miscarriage will not convince them. To them, it all comes down to a petty tyrant God punishing you on a whim for some minor sin. So yeah, they would tell you that the way to avoid miscarriage is to pray hard, wear skirts only, get rid of your tv, etc, and they would think that it has nothing to do with your health.

[maybeizfundie]

er, that's kind of a broad brush yer painting with there. ;)

[PBrooke]

Since you were asking about fundie lites in your original post, I think fundie lites - and even some harder core fundies - would really question the use of birth control on their blogs, and some friends would tell them to go the herbal route to help all their problems (because somehow it's not a medicine or influencing God's Will if it's an herb or supplement), and then they would pray about it, and ultimately they would do whatever they needed to do. I've seen fundies get prescribed birth control for, say, helping to clear up cysts or regulate their hormones before attempting to conceive again, and this is what seems to always play out. Funnily enough, they never seem to update the blogs on what their ultimate decision was. I think they went with the bc, myself.

As for my own opinion? Even if I were going for the "leave it up to God" thing, I would think that the healthier you are, the less chances for an unviable pregnancy (and therefore heartache for all, which makes it harder for you to be healthy). So take the bc, get as healthy as possible as quickly as possible, and wait until your body is telling you that it's the right time. If you're recovering from a miscarriage you could miss your healthy window.

Though I don't subscribe to this at all, I would think you could say that by fundie logic, God is effectively closing and opening your womb through lupus, same as he opens and closes everyone else's regularly through menstruation. Thus, you could say waiting for you to be healthy is waiting for God's timing, and your bc is to ensure that you don't jump the gun on God.

[AnnoDomini]

I was raised to believe that any birth control was wrong. Medical problems, however, did not enter into it (though my mother's last three pregnancies had gestational diabetes). I am unsure of the Biblical allowability for birth control to prevent children in normal circumstances (I'm kind of going back and forth, not passing judgment on anyone else) but I think since the motivation is prevention of a miscarriage you're certain will happen, birth control is definitely fine.

[Guest Anonymous]

Biblical allowability for birth control

I'm positive the Bible doesn't say a single word about birth control.

[shesinsane]

In the Jewish faith, health of the mother always comes before the baby. Even those who are trying to single handidly repopulate the world with Jewish children (to make up for the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust) will use birth control if pregnancy would put the mother at great risk. Some examples of when it's ok: when a woman has an illness that makes pregnancy dangerous to her and/or a baby; when a mother has post-partum depression and another pregnancy would make it worse; when the stress/anxiety of having more children becomes debilatating to the mother.

I don't know if fundie Christians feel the same as fundie Jews. I fear the answer you'd get would be let God decide - either God will keep you from getting pregnant, or you'll get pregnant and be able to carry the baby and the doctors would be proven wrong.

I think the question is, is birth control allowed if it's for reasons like preventing a miscarriage or to protect the mother's health? Is birth control only morally wrong when it's used by a woman to have unlimited sex with her husband without resulting in a pregnancy? I know fundies like to dismiss it as rumor, but there are lots of women using birth control for reasons other than preventing pregnancy. What's the difference between regulating the periods of a virgin and regulating the periods of a married woman with an autoimmune disease?

[Jessica]

Of course it's ok. Zsuzsanna and people like her like to claim that birth control causes cancer and whatever other terrible diseases so it's never ok, ever. Don't rely on her for medical advice.

[Eponine]

When I see notes that are obituaries for miscarried babies at 5 weeks and resulting conversations about how everyones miscarried babies will play together in heaven, proclamations that a woman is not complete until she has birthed a child naturally...

:shock: That all seems completely nuts. Why am I still surprised when I hear things like this?

[helloemi]

Of course it all seems nuts! lol!

My own reasoning for wanting to stop birth control in the first place had nothing to do with biblical conviction, but from being on the depo-shot for too long. I have to watch my use of "Leave it up to God"...As I mean it in "let's take a chance" sense and fear I could be mistaken for a fundy! :o

I find the whole thing to be a bit like watching a train wreck...

What scares me the most is how these "fundy lite" mommy bloggers fool so many people into thinking they are sane...when in fact their beliefs are much more strict than they let on.