Quebec hearings ban word "racist" but promote racism

[2xx1xy1JD]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... d-that-is/

To recap: claiming that the mere sight of a hijab makes you think of gays being strung up in the town square, or testifying about your paranoia that a daycare worker in a head scarf will have some sort of evil influence over children is perfectly fine, and the Quebec government will happily ban all evidence that people of other religions may work in daycares, hospitals, schools or any other public institutions.

Calling any statement "racist", though, is out of bounds.

[Mama Mia]

Well that was a stunning bit of hypocrisy, and the worst part is that I'm sure they are completely oblivious to it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Well that was a stunning bit of hypocrisy, and the worst part is that I'm sure they are completely oblivious to it.

Willfully blind at best, deliberately xenophobic at worst. I've ranted about this before, but here is a link to the pamphlet, from the Quebec government's own website, that has a charming graphic showing just who is welcome and who is not.

http://www.nosvaleurs.gouv.qc.ca/en/propositions/3

If you scroll down a bit, the graphic on the right is of the folks who would lose their public sector jobs if this law ever passes.

[tropaka]

and yet they want to keep up the huge crucifix in the Assembly. When this all started someone asked the minister responsible if members would still have to take an oath on a bible; he had no answer. Loved that one hospital group (Lakeridge) in Ontario had an ad recruiting healthcare workers from Quebec who would be shut out by this legislation.

http://o.canada.com/news/lakeridge-heal ... of-values/

[crazyforkate]

Though it's good to get away from public expression of religion in government, messing with personal expression is absolutely NOT okay. Who cares if the guy in the cubicle next to you wears a kippah, or the woman at the tourist desk has a hijab? It promotes a culture of suspicion and lack of connection - and limits where perfectly good workers might be able to work, which is a travesty, especially in this economy!

[JesusFightClub]

I don't agree that those who work for the government should not be able to express their religion. Like crazyforkate said, who does it harm?

I have worked (and still work) with veiled women and men who wear traditional clothing and pray five times a day. Also with women and men who wear crucifix necklaces and who are fundamentalist Christians. And Jews wearing kippah.

When I go home at night on the bus and if I answer my phone I might be one of the few English speakers ;) My area is "diverse" so you get Polish, Russian, Romanian, various African languages, Punjabi...whateve :think: r. It has neither broken my leg nor picked my pocket.

I actually quite like thinking about future Scots and the diversity we will have. My nieces are mixed-race and speak a bit of Polish, learnt from their mates at school. I feel positive about this...although religion may enter the picture I don't see it happening soon and if it did there would be opponents from everywhere.

[Shoobydoo]

These people would have a heart attack where I live. Most of the cashiers at the my local Target wear hijab, along with 30-40% of the women I see near my house. They're even ebil immigrants and refugees! And that's not to start on the large Vietnamese population in the same neighborhood, also immigrants/refugees. You know who I feel most threatened by? The obviously American drunk guys who hang out in the local park and harass anything with a uterus that happens to pass by.

[dawbs]

where I work, we have a large population of people who are relatively recent (recent being a relative term--meaning sometimes a few years, and sometimes a few generations :-)) immigrants from the middle east.

One of the things that has come up w/ discussing cultural sensitivity, etc @ work is that we exclude veiled women from employment/education/whatever we are 1-forcing them to be very VERY vulnerable and 2-feeding straight into the argument that the secular world is filled with ogres who are trying to force them to be immodest/reject their religion/etc.

[2xx1xy1JD]

All great, reasonable points.

Here's a bit more of the background:

The Montreal area - especially the central and western parts - is exceedingly multicultural. The rest of Quebec, except for some spots near Ottawa, is not. The Parti Quebecois only had one representative elected in Montreal, and they booted her out over her opposition to this Values Charter.

The current Parti Quebecois, which is in power, is a separatist party. Separatism is not popular with the ethnic communities. In 1995, there was a referendum on separation from the rest of Canada, and the No side won by a tiny margin (50.58%). The Parti Quebecois premier at the time, Jacque Parizeau, proceeded to give a concession speech in which he said "at 60%, WE voted for it.....we lost to money and the ethnic vote". The implication, of course, is that ethnic voters in Quebec aren't part of "we".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_and_the_ethnic_vote

There is a history of religion and politics being overly mixed in Quebec - but it involved the Catholic Church prior to the 1960s. The crucifix will stay in the National Assembly under this law. It won't be Christians who face potential job loss under this law. It will be all those pesky ethnic groups that didn't vote for the Parti Quebecois.

[dpndetfarm]

Having grown up just to the south of this little "land of the misfits" us northern New Englanders tend to think of Quebecans (in a superficial kind of way) as that little kid who lives in the neighborhood, doesn't really have any friends, but is always hanging around, trying to be a little bit superior, a little bit haughty, a little bit rude, but mostly just succeeding in being a bit annoying. We smile, mumble something a bit noncommittal, and pat them on the head as we rush to leave the room lest we burst out laughing at their Speedo clad bodies.

Generally one on one, the behavior is toned down some, but there is definitely a bit of an inferiority complex going on in that Province. However we do like their cash. :moose:

As far as this proposal goes, it's just another chapter of Animal Farm. Crazy's.

Ontario on the other hand rocks!!!!!!

[Dinaberries]

I had no idea Quebec was so racist and xenophobic. To any Canadians here, is this why a lot of Canadians (not sure what to call canadians who aren't french) dislike French Canadians? I have met a few Canadians here in Australia, and when I mention that my husband is half French Canadian, there is often a look of distaste. I couldn't figure out what that's about and neither can my husband, since he hasn't spent much time in Canada. However, his family is from Ottawa, not Quebec.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm not bashing all French-Canadians here.

I'm criticizing the current Parti Quebecois and the fact that they've put an insane amount of effort into this racist and xenophobic "Values Charter".

Once upon a time, the separatist movement had a leader who was anti-racist. Rene Levesque, the first premier elected from the Parti Quebecois in 1976, didn't define who was "Quebecois" by ethnicity. He had been a war correspondent for the US Army during WWII, and entered Dachau concentration camp as it was liberated. The horror of that experience affected him for life, and he had no patience for racism. [i'll criticize his separatist politics and policies, which did a lot of economic damage to Montreal, but I'll give credit where it's due.]

[Dinaberries]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you were bashing all french Canadians. I just thought maybe french Canadians might have a reputation for being prejudiced, and that most Canadians would dislike that since Canada has a reputation for being very tolerant.

[JesusFightClub]

All great, reasonable points.

Here's a bit more of the background:

The Montreal area - especially the central and western parts - is exceedingly multicultural. The rest of Quebec, except for some spots near Ottawa, is not. The Parti Quebecois only had one representative elected in Montreal, and they booted her out over her opposition to this Values Charter.

The current Parti Quebecois, which is in power, is a separatist party. Separatism is not popular with the ethnic communities. In 1995, there was a referendum on separation from the rest of Canada, and the No side won by a tiny margin (50.58%). The Parti Quebecois premier at the time, Jacque Parizeau, proceeded to give a concession speech in which he said "at 60%, WE voted for it.....we lost to money and the ethnic vote". The implication, of course, is that ethnic voters in Quebec aren't part of "we".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_and_the_ethnic_vote

There is a history of religion and politics being overly mixed in Quebec - but it involved the Catholic Church prior to the 1960s. The crucifix will stay in the National Assembly under this law. It won't be Christians who face potential job loss under this law. It will be all those pesky ethnic groups that didn't vote for the Parti Quebecois.

This is fascinating (and very sad) to me, and I thank you for posting it. The struggle for independence is taking wildly different forms in many places.

As you know Scotland is voting on independence this year and we've thankfully managed to keep race out of it. In part this is because Scottish culture is significantly more lefty than the rest of the UK (we still have the phrase "We're aw Jock Tamson's bairns" which says in English "We're all John Thomson's kids" and means roughly "We're all the same, really"). We also know that separatist movements around the world are looking at us (the Basques in Spain are very interested) and we're trying not to act like super huge fannies.

This isn't to say no Scots are racist, unfortunately some of us are, it's just that we don't have the same societal approval to express dodgy things that the English have. You will not get a Scots politico saying that IQ should determine your destiny and not enough is being done to help those with high IQs, we also don't have the stark divide between rich and poor that London has (yet). In our Parliament, you can still get impassioned questions to the First Minister about what, precisely, he will do to improve the roads in Drumnadrochit. We're a small country and so far, a fairly welcoming one, insofar as in us lies.

I guess we will have to choose in an independent Scotland (if we get one) if we go the Parti Quebecois route, the London hypercapitalist route, or if we stay as a tiny social-democratic nation. I'm hoping for full republicanism and a workers' Soviet, but I do understand that I might have to wait a wee bit ;)

[JesusFightClub]

All great, reasonable points.

Here's a bit more of the background:

The Montreal area - especially the central and western parts - is exceedingly multicultural. The rest of Quebec, except for some spots near Ottawa, is not. The Parti Quebecois only had one representative elected in Montreal, and they booted her out over her opposition to this Values Charter.

The current Parti Quebecois, which is in power, is a separatist party. Separatism is not popular with the ethnic communities. In 1995, there was a referendum on separation from the rest of Canada, and the No side won by a tiny margin (50.58%). The Parti Quebecois premier at the time, Jacque Parizeau, proceeded to give a concession speech in which he said "at 60%, WE voted for it.....we lost to money and the ethnic vote". The implication, of course, is that ethnic voters in Quebec aren't part of "we".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_and_the_ethnic_vote

There is a history of religion and politics being overly mixed in Quebec - but it involved the Catholic Church prior to the 1960s. The crucifix will stay in the National Assembly under this law. It won't be Christians who face potential job loss under this law. It will be all those pesky ethnic groups that didn't vote for the Parti Quebecois.

This is fascinating (and very sad) to me, and I thank you for posting it. The struggle for independence is taking wildly different forms in many places.

As you know Scotland is voting on independence this year and we've thankfully managed to keep race out of it. In part this is because Scottish culture is significantly more lefty than the rest of the UK (we still have the phrase "We're aw Jock Tamson's bairns" which says in English "We're all John Thomson's kids" and means roughly "We're all the same, really"). We also know that separatist movements around the world are looking at us (the Basques in Spain are very interested) and we're trying not to act like super huge fannies.

This isn't to say no Scots are racist, unfortunately some of us are, it's just that we don't have the same societal approval to express dodgy things that the English have. You will not get a Scots politico saying that IQ should determine your destiny and not enough is being done to help those with high IQs, we also don't have the stark divide between rich and poor that London has (yet). In our Parliament, you can still get impassioned questions to the First Minister about what, precisely, he will do to improve the roads in Drumnadrochit. We're a small country and so far, a fairly welcoming one, insofar as in us lies.

I guess we will have to choose in an independent Scotland (if we get one) if we go the Parti Quebecois route, the London hypercapitalist route, or if we stay as a tiny social-democratic nation. I'm hoping for full republicanism and a workers' Soviet, but I do understand that I might have to wait a wee bit ;)

[Someonetocall]

Try as I might, I can not compose a post calmly discussing my thoughts about this matter and the matter of separatism. If I take out the words "bite" and "ass", it doesn't make any sense but if I leave them in, it just leads to stronger language.

I respectfully disagree with the PQ and the BQ and wish they would stop.

[tropaka]

Buh bye PQ. Worst showing in 25 years and Quebec now has a majority liberal government:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/08 ... ref=canada

MONTREAL - The party of Rene Levesque absorbed a devastating electoral blow Monday, a loss that knocked the Parti Quebecois's vote count back four decades to its days as a fledgling political outfit.

The result could trigger an existential emergency for the PQ, as it faces the realization that its very raison d'etre — Quebec independence — has been deemed politically toxic.

Pauline Marois announced her departure after Monday's defeat and very likely became the last PQ leader who will have served alongside Levesque, the party's founding father.

Levesque's first generation of troops has failed in its mission to secede from Canada, but the next generation vowed Monday to fight on, with Marois's blessing.

"There's a changing of the guard in the Parti Quebecois, a changing of the guard that represents the future," Marois told a chanting room of supporters in Montreal during a consolation speech in which she announced she would resign.

"And like Mr. Levesque had the habit of saying: 'The future is long.' "

In its first-ever election in 1970, the PQ won less than 24 per cent of the popular vote. On Monday, it captured 25 per cent.

[MysteryHaggis]

Buh bye PQ. Worst showing in 25 years and Quebec now has a majority liberal government:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/08 ... ref=canada

Wow. Situations like the PQ are when my general backing of minority cultural separatism in more powerful states* starts to fall apart. JFC is right though, the various forms of nationalist/ independence movements and their political standpoints are fascinating.

*This is very clumsy because I don't know how else to say it. My experience is in the French, aggressively centrist/Republican assimilationist context where minority cultural expression is very rarely officially permitted or codoned. Quebec and Canada have somewhat moved past that point)