Mushrooms and Seaweed--Not Kosher?

[GeoBQn]

The ladies at Messianic Keepers at Home are debating about whether mushrooms and seaweed are kosher, since Genesis apparently only allows people to eat "seed-bearing plants." One poster helpfully points out that rabbinic sources treat seaweed as a "plant," not an "animal." Glad somebody sorted that out. (I'm thinking of the scene in Dinosaurs where Earl separates all things into animal, vegetable, and rocks, then tries to figure out the category for water.)

Then one poster said that they should be striving to eat "Biblically-clean," which is different and vastly superior to keeping Kosher, which are "man-made traditions." She boasts that she stopped eating mushrooms a while ago since they are not plants, and there are plenty of alternatives. Good luck--mushrooms are often the vegetarian meat substitute in a lot of recipes. And carrageenan, which is derived from seaweed, is used as a vegetarian substitute for gelatin, which they are also trying to avoid since it is usually made from pigs.

To be clear, I keep kosher and I make absolutely no attempt to figure out what the rules mean, and I agree that many of the rules are odd. But this is definitely the weirdest case I've come across of Messianics claiming that "Jews R doin' it rong."

[miffy]

Some seaweed does have seeds. Obviously these women have never had a kelp fight with their sister at the beach.

:lol: :lol: Dinosaurs! I watched that episode last week. I think Earl concludes that fire is a vegetable & water is the opposite of fire so its a rock.

[lilith]

Mushroom spores act as seeds.

I would hate to have to give up mushrooms, as someone who was raised vegetarian they are still one of my favourite foods.

[Arete]

So their concept of "Biblically clean" food is directly from the mind of God, but Kosher is a "man-made tradition"?

Damn, these women are idiots. :popcorn2:

[thoughtful]

Good -- more mushrooms for me!

And don't they know that the Lord kelps those who kelp themselves?

(sorry)

Oh, and for mentioning Dinosaurs.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There's no prohibition anywhere in the Hebrew Bible on any type of plant (except for Tree of Life and Trees of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden).

Genesis 1:29 refers to the instructions given to Adam. Human being, in the original idealized state, were seen as fruit-eaters (fruit being sweet and easily accessible without hard work). After the expulsion from the Garden of Eden, the narrative describes other plant-based foods entering the diet, which require more labor to produce ("by the sweat of your brow you shall eat bread"). Still later, after the Flood, the narrative describes meat entering the diet.

The dietary prohibitions are found in Leviticus. Genesis 1:29 is seen strictly as a past instruction, not a current limit. Actual Jews certainly do eat seaweed and mushrooms.

[lagenialester]

Sushi is becoming the new "Chinese food" of the Jews. Seriously, I have been to SO many simchot (events like a bris, wedding, bar mitzvah...etc.) with sushi in the past 8 years or so. Many of these thrown and catered by very Orthodox Jews. Seaweed is kosher. This I know for sure. Heck, there's even a kosher sushi bar in one of the bagel/coffee joints in Crown Heights (Lubavitcher "headquarters")!

[Dysfundamental]

Sushi is becoming the new "Chinese food" of the Jews. Seriously, I have been to SO many simchot (events like a bris, wedding, bar mitzvah...etc.) with sushi in the past 8 years or so. Many of these thrown and catered by very Orthodox Jews. Seaweed is kosher. This I know for sure. Heck, there's even a kosher sushi bar in one of the bagel/coffee joints in Crown Heights (Lubavitcher "headquarters")!

A) Yes, me too.

B) You're assuming these folks care about what actual Jews and actual Jewish theologians think.

C) Mushrooms aren't even plants, so I have no idea why they'd be subject to plant-related laws of kashrut if there even were any, which I don't think there are, are there?

D) Of course here I'm assuming these folks care about basic science, so my bad.

[DistantStar]

Fake Jews don't have the sense to go to Actual Jews to find out anything about the rules, they just wing it on their own. Idiots!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Sushi is becoming the new "Chinese food" of the Jews. Seriously, I have been to SO many simchot (events like a bris, wedding, bar mitzvah...etc.) with sushi in the past 8 years or so. Many of these thrown and catered by very Orthodox Jews. Seaweed is kosher. This I know for sure. Heck, there's even a kosher sushi bar in one of the bagel/coffee joints in Crown Heights (Lubavitcher "headquarters")!

Too true.

For those who don't know about this - this is a weird ethnic culinary phenomenon, perhaps similar to the compulsion that some fundies have to eat Tater Tots. North American Jews tend to latch on to type of food, and then cling to it somewhat obsessively. For the longest time, it was Chinese food (North American version of Cantonese food, circa 1960). Many kosher restaurants would have on the menu, and many people would serve it at home, in places that made no sense at all. Here's a prime description - rotisserie chicken joint, which also had sweet and sour chicken:

http://www.foodnetwork.ca/ontv/shows/re ... eid=117492

Eventually, Chinese food everywhere gets old and cliched, and people want to demonstrate that they've at least entered the 1980s. Enter sushi. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon, to the point that it's just ridiculous. At some point, you want to scream, "no, non-Jews don't sell sushi at pizza joints, kebob grills or steakhouses."

[bananacat]

Well, mushrooms and seaweed aren't plants at all. If they wanna get all tied up in these ridiculous rules, then they probably shouldn't eat either of them. I'm glad I can just eat whatever tastes good.

[patsymae]

Not a theologian. Back in the day, eating in Chinatown in NYC became a sort of tradition--and then a joke--because they were the only restaurants open on Sunday.

Maybe I'm evil, but I actually like this discussion about seaweed and stuff and hope that these Messianics keep it up. The more they become public about what actual contempt they have, the less likely they are to entice non-educated Jews into their ranks.

"Hi, I'm a Jew, come join me at the Messianic Synagogue and we'll have Shabbos and sing from Findler on the Roof" might be enticing. "Hi, as a Jew you're way too stupid to understand the 'Old Testament" is less likely to attract converts. Hoist on your own petard and all that.