Boy Scouts propose to lift gay ban for youth no gay leaders.

[doggie]

I first missed the partial ban. Of course gay adults are all pedophiles is the message that is presented. So are all straight men girl molesters or is gay some kind of disease that makes men want to have boy sex?? So I think this is sending the wrong message and is only a placating action.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/boy-scou ... -ban-youth

NEW YORK (AP) — Searching for compromise on a divisive issue, the Boy Scouts of America is proposing to partially lift its long-standing exclusion of gays — allowing them as youth members but continuing to bar them as adult leaders.

The proposal, unveiled Friday after weeks of private leadership deliberations, will be submitted to the roughly 1,400 voting members of the BSA's National Council during the week of May 20 at a meeting in Texas.

[Salamander]

I agree with Tony Perkins* (even a stopped clock, etc. etc.) that the policy is "incoherent." Why is it "acceptable" to have gay youth in Scouts but not gay leaders? It makes no sense.

And there's no "compromise" to be found here. Either the proposed policy is homophobic or it's not. Hint: it still is. There's no "compromise" to be had on matters of bigotry.

*His conclusions are gross, though. Tony Perkins, go fuck yourself.

[FakePigtails]

After reading the reactions at CAF I'm realizing just how much they managed to piss off both sides: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=778077

[AnywhereButHere]

My cousin's son just made Eagle Scout, and my mom called to tell me about it all proud of him and to ask why my son wasn't part of Boy Scouts. It was very hard to balance a "Wow! How great for cousin. He must be so proud!" with a "But the organization sucks donkey balls, and my son will never join it." I think I managed it though. She didn't hang up on me anyway. :)

It's too bad because I do think that they could be a good organization, but their intolerance really overshadows any good. This latest policy will do nothing. First of all, yeah, love the oblique inference that all gay men are pedophiles. Second, okay, so letting gay kids be a part of Boy Scouts, great. What happens when they grow up? Since gay adults are apparently an anathema to the Boy Scouts, will they have to keep quiet that they were members? It sounds like they wouldn't be able to contribute anything after a certain age. Sure, you can be a part of our group now, but we'll deny you later. Yeah - I'd be all over jumping on that one... :roll:

[Jinger Jar]

My husband, brother-in-law, and father-in-law were Eagle Scouts. My FIL also was a troop leader for more than 20 years. When the BSA affirmed its no gays in the BSA policy in 1993, the three of them boxed up their Eagle Scout medals, assorted other medals, badges, plaques, and Scouting awards, and sent it all back to the Boy Scouts with a letter stating that they no longer wished to be associated with the organization.

They never heard back from the Boy Scouts.

[FaustianSlip]

I'm going to go ahead and put in a plug for the Baden-Powell Service Association, a "traditional scouting" group that does not discriminate based on gender, sexual orientation or anything else and reframes the scouting focus on outdoor activities and conservation. It looks like a great program, and it really appears to be growing. Every time I look at their site, there are more groups listed. If I were back in the States, I'd start a group myself. It's high time for stupid BSA to be stripped of its control over the U.S. scouting world, IMHO. They've proven time and again that they're far more interested in satisfying their more right-wing constituents than actually ensuring the welfare of the boys in their program.

[wildcatgrrl]

I'm not quite sure what the reasoning is behind this. If they're worried that all gay men are pedophiles, why wouldn't they be worried that an older gay Boy Scout would victimize other Scouts? I'm confused.

[Full enough quiver]

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, it's a step in the right direction. On the other hand, way to insinuate that all gays are pedophiles. I'm sure some are, but no more than the general population. Thorough background checks, addressing the stigma of abuse, and standard precautions like no leaders alone with any child could probably reduce abuse. What do they think the gay scouts are going to do, rape their sons? They're just like anyone else, except they like boys instead of girls. Big deal. If one of them hits on a straight boy, all he has to do is politely let the boy know he's not interested, just like he would with a girl he wasn't into. That actually happened to my daughter. A friend of hers came out to her and asked her to homecoming. My daughter told her she was flattered to be asked, but that she's not gay. They ended up going together as friends. This girl has slept over at our house. The girl has a girlfriend now, my daughter has a boyfriend. They all hang out together, nobody's weird about it. It is so not a big deal.

[Marianne]

Just a question: is not against the law to refuse / fire someone because of their gender, sexual orientation, religious or political beliefs, skin color, physical appearance ?

[wildcatgrrl]

Yeah, but BSA is a private organization that uses volunteers as leaders. Like GS leaders, they aren't "hired" or paid.

[Emme]

Soooo basically gay kids can still exist, but have no role models to show them that they can be happy, well adjusted gay adults...

[Marianne]

Yeah, but BSA is a private organization that uses volunteers as leaders. Like GS leaders, they aren't "hired" or paid.

Okay, thank you.

It's just disgusting. My best friends was in two scout groups ( http://www.sgdf.fr/ ; http://www.scouts-europe.org/ ). Both were Catholics. First was liberal, the second was very strict (not mixed, strict uniform ...). But when she spoke to me about it ... well, it looked like any meeting of teenagers...

Are the BSA christian or secular ?

[Mama Mia]

Yeah, but BSA is a private organization that uses volunteers as leaders. Like GS leaders, they aren't "hired" or paid.

I wonder how this works with their paid staff ? I know many states don't have protections regarding sexual orientation, but many do. Are they able to by-pass this somehow ?

Not sure of what sort of exemptions there are, but there must be some if they get around this for paid staff.

[YPestis]

I was disappointed that's the new proposal for the BSA. I hoped they would just allow local chapters to decide, especially, as they contended, this was a controversial issue among scouts. It doesn't hurt the chapters that still want to keep the ban. The only excuse I've heard on why they should institute a national ban is the fear that chapters which ban gays would have to interact with chapters that do not! Therefore, their little boys will still be exposed to gay scout leaders. I guess some people want to preserve the BSA as a total gay-free zone. I wonder what century the BSA is living in? Did anyone forget to mention to these people that gays will exist in schools? In other children organizations? At museums? As your neighbors? Families? Your kids' families? They are fighting a losing battle. Gays are getting married and having families. Laws are set in place to prevent discrimination against them. Statistics show, again and again, that gays are embraced by the younger generation across party and religious lines. How long does the BSA think they can hold out before their organization will disappear or find themselves irrelevant to mainstream society? It's adapt or die these days. Plus, as you continue to ban gays in your organization, more and more governmental and private organizations will not want to fund or be associated with the BSA. I guess it's a vicious cycle. As the BSA becomes more isolated due to their gay stance, they become increasingly dependent on the conservative churches that fund them. Hence, they are even more reluctant to allow gays in. Right now, there's enough mainstream support for them to make a break from such a ban. If they don't, I think the BSA's very character will change into something different as people flee the organization.

[Effie]

Why don't they ban the bullies instead? Just an idea...

[doggie]

Hey they have to leave room for the non gay pedophiles I mean just think of the competition?

They have a big problem with molestation with straight people doing it. How can gay people be any worse? Saying gays are the threat is just blind stupidity.

[wildcatgrrl]

I wonder how this works with their paid staff ? I know many states don't have protections regarding sexual orientation, but many do. Are they able to by-pass this somehow ?

Not sure of what sort of exemptions there are, but there must be some if they get around this for paid staff.

Companies just don't let on that that's why they don't hire someone. They say another candidate had better qualifications, more experience, they decided to promote from within, etc. As long as they can back it up, and generally they could if a lot of people apply, they're good so far as lawsuits, etc. Same with not hiring pregnant women and minorities. ETA: I know that sounds really cynical, but I bet it happens a lot. :(

There's also the possibility that BSA isn't as concerned about paid staff because they don't work directly with the kids. That's how it is in GS, anyway-if you hold a paid position with Council, you can't be a troop leader as well.

[Rosa]

Individual councils do decide for themselves, and have been for years - our council doesn't discriminate. BSA hasn't kicked us out.

The thing about the troops leaving & going to another organization is that it would leave the bigots owning thousands of acres of Scout-owned campgrounds and other assets.

[GeoBQn]

The California senate passed a bill to revoke BSA's tax-exempt status.

http://jezebel.com/california-senate-pa ... -510734338

[Hane]

Hey, BSA: NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

That said, two families at my UU church here in Connecticut are strongly involved in Boy Scouting. They said that the prevailing attitude around here is to ignore the homophobic "rules" and go about their business.

[OkToBeTakei]

I honestly thought all scouts were the Baden-Powell ones.

I just asked a lady I work with who is a scout leader what the thinking on this issue in the UK. She said 'What issue?' Apparently it just is not. She said her Cub Scout colleague is quite open about being gay.

How really sad. Scouting should be about fun not politics :(

[Black Aliss]

I'm not quite sure what the reasoning is behind this. If they're worried that all gay men are pedophiles, why wouldn't they be worried that an older gay Boy Scout would victimize other Scouts? I'm confused.

Oh, they are! In fact that's the big fear about allowing scouts to be openly gay (because they have always allowed closeted self-loathing gays to be Boy Scouts, and still permit closeted self-loathing gay men and women to be leaders)--that the older gay boys will, at a minimum, recruit the younger boys to the gay lifestyle.

In a supreme bit of irony a Catholic church in a town near me announced that it was disbanding its Boy Scout troop, rather than risk having to admit openly gay boys.

[Rosa]

Churches don't run troops. They host them. That church can stop hosting, and if most of the troop is parishioners they can tell them to quit, but they can't actually disband the troop.

Our troop switched hosting churches for purely logistic reasons (we had totally outgrown their space) last year.

Also, if they would stop discriminating against atheists as well, the BSA could meet in the public schools & not be dependent on a church, anyway.