In Case you Can't Throw a Titanic Feast with Actual People

[GenerationCedarchip]

Now we've got Titanic paper dolls so you can reenact the "women and children first" moment. I'm not sure what's worse, dressing up to play aristocrat in honor of an event that killed so many people or making it into a cutesy kids' game.

deeprootsathome.com/childrens-titanic-paper-dolls-giveaway101st-anniversary/

Also, of ALL the events in history, I have to admit that I just don't get why fundies are so hung up on this one. I know the fundie-farm I came from is all about tying colonial history into "taking dominon" but the Titanic connection never made much sense to me.

[mockingbird]

Is it bad that I want a copy just because I am intrigued by how horrible of an idea it is? :shifty-kitty:

[jenny_islander]

Also, of ALL the events in history, I have to admit that I just don't get why fundies are so hung up on this one. I know the fundie-farm I came from is all about tying colonial history into "taking dominon" but the Titanic connection never made much sense to me.

The myth of how gallant and stalwart all the (rich, powerful, well-dressed, and famous) men were, is my guess, plus the pretty pretty dresses on the women. However . . . regardless of how terribly worldly That Movie was, can anybody who's been watching this scene for a while remember whether there was an uptick in Titanic nostalgia among fundies after it came out?

[MamaJunebug]

Paper dolls, eh? Well, it's better than what I first envisioned: life-size cutouts of Dougie, the Niednagels, et.al. in Edwardian upper-class garb. Oh, shoot, now I've gone and given them a new merchandising idea!!!!!!!!! :o

[yewchapel]

The Brookshire girls are such great illustrators, it's a shame they waste it on so much revisionist history bullshit. I remember their 'heroines of the Reformation' series - not a single Anglican amongst them, but including Abigail Adams :roll:

[Claddagh]

Makes me want to tell the fundies the naughty Titanic jokes I know....

Paper dolls, eh? Well, it's better than what I first envisioned: life-size cutouts of Dougie, the Niednagels, et.al. in Edwardian upper-class garb. Oh, shoot, now I've gone and given them a new merchandising idea!!!!!!!!! :o

Helloooooooo nightmare fuel for tonight. :pink-shock:

[samurai_sarah]

The whole "men sacrificed their lives" for women and children makes me feel stabby. The passenger lists are online, and to the untrained eye, it appears that mostly 3rd class and crew lost their lives. Like Vision Forum, they should be made to listen to Celine Dion's "My heart will go on" at least six times a day. As a witness from the time when the movie first came out, and all the radio stations played it constantly, I know this is harsh. Actually, it borders on psychological warfare, but I'm not taking prisoners on this one.

Spoiler tag for those of us who lived through it. . .

zmbw8OycJrE

[formergothardite]

To quote the book, A Night to Remember, "The night was a magnificent confirmation of "women and children first", yet somehow the loss rate was higher for third class children than for first class men."

[MamaJunebug]

To quote the book, A Night to Remember, "The night was a magnificent confirmation of "women and children first", yet somehow the loss rate was higher for third class children than for first class men."

In all seriousness, it just shows how impoverished their imaginations are w/r/t ideas for encouraging mutual respect and guardianship between women and men.

OH, wait, that's because there's no mutuality about it: Menz on top! :snooty:

At the risk of giving them yet another merchandising idea: It makes far more sense to study mid-20th century customs of the middle- and upper classes in male/female relationships, as examples of how they and their children can form a mutually respectful, positive atmosphere: e.g., gents held the dining table chairs for ladies, who studied up on current events to be able to hold up their side of a good conversaiton; stuff like that. Heck, they already have some of the costuming from when they showed themselves off feted the WW2 vets in Europe in '09 or '11 or whenever it was.

OTOH, their Branson event filled the museum and I'm sure lined the VF/Phillips family coffers very well. They don't need my advice; their faithful followers are thrilled to have an excuse to dress up and Dougie's happy happy happy to do that, as well. They'll continue to tell themselves that No Women Were Lost Nor Harmed In The Titanic Kerfuffle (except for that Jewish lady who wouldn't leave her husband's side, but they were old and Jewish, after all.

It keeps 'em occupied. Gives us a chance to figure out how to bring the truth about them to even wider lights.

[clarinetpower]

It says they come with accessories and clothing changes. I wonder if there's an icicle set for each person? Perhaps a sheer blue overlay for when they're peoplesicles in the water?

This is disgusting.

[GenerationCedarchip]

The myth of how gallant and stalwart all the (rich, powerful, well-dressed, and famous) men were, is my guess, plus the pretty pretty dresses on the women. However . . . regardless of how terribly worldly That Movie was, can anybody who's been watching this scene for a while remember whether there was an uptick in Titanic nostalgia among fundies after it came out?

I was still lost in fundie-land when that movie came out, and I don't remember any big Titanic nostalgia. However, it was one of the few movies at the time that was fundie church (at least reformed church) approved so I and most of my friends saw it many times over. Dougie founded VF the next year (1998) but he would have been lurking in Virginia reformed circles at the time Titanic came out, so he may well have memories of all those kids and teenagers who were completely enamored of the movie - and who would be old enough to have families of their own to play dress-up with now.

[PennySycamore]

I wonder if Dougie knows that two of the men who perished on the Titanic were Major Archibald Butt and his partner Francis Millet. Major Butt was a military aide to Presidents Teddy Roosevelt and William Howard Taft. President Taft spoke at his funeral and again at his memorial service in Washington where he broke down and wept. There is a memorial to the two men, the Butt-Millet Memorial Fountain, on the Ellipse near the White House and yes, it was authorized by Congress.

[hoipolloi]

Good thing we're discussing monuments now because I know you'll all want to read the latest from Doug's Drivel Blog (visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2013/04/10774/):

Just before Midnight. At 1:00 A.M., the men pictured below arrived and performed an amazing service to “these brave men†to commemorate the sacrifice of the Titanic heroes. They are part of a small society made up of only twenty men who have done this for 35 years. Each of them are industry leaders in television broadcasting. They founded the society 36 years ago after their leader (the man on the stool) produced a television show on hidden wonders of Washington D.C. and discovered that the Men’s Titanic Memorial was the most overlooked monument. They also discovered that despite a promise by the founders and various women’s societies to lay a wreath annually on the anniversary, that after about a decade or so, the women lost interest, stopped doing it, and people forgot about the anniversary and the memorial. Their organization was founded to rectify the problem of people forgetting their history and losing interest. Each year on the vigil these men recreate the Titanic seven course dinner, arrive by bus in tuxedos, set up lights, come with a butler who pours champagne for each man, organize in a troop, march up to the monument, lay a wreath, and each offer toasts and commentaries on the story of the Titanic.

[Emphasis added]

See? It's ALL the fault of women.

Doug Phillips Is A Tool

[YPestis]

The Titanic concept is a fundie-friendly environment when society held values that our modern day fundies love so much AND they have all those wonderful costumes they can play dress up with! I'm serious here. I really think it's because Titanic was set in a time before society became "corrupt"; before women's lib, civil rights movement and before "prayer was removed" from schools. The "women and children first" theme goes also well with the fundie ideal of patriarchy. Dougie needs a theme to help implant the idea nobility of that time period, and Titanic is a perfect fit. Plus, it allows him to have all these dress up parties! I'm sure if it's not the Titanic, it would be some other historical event when "men were men" and women dressed in lace and silk and sipped tea all day.

[karupin]

Good ways to remember the Titanic:

Spending time in prayer or reflection on the people lost. Visiting the Titanic Museum, reading related books, etc., to get a greater understanding of the tragedy. Offer thanks that maritime safety has been improved, so that such a horrific disaster won't be recreated.

"Having a fancy dress party and talking all about manly men" is not on this list.

[Nothing2CHere]

Just before Midnight. At 1:00 A.M., the men pictured below arrived and performed an amazing service to “these brave men†to commemorate the sacrifice of the Titanic heroes. They are part of a small society made up of only twenty men who have done this for 35 years. Each of them are industry leaders in television broadcasting. They founded the society 36 years ago after their leader (the man on the stool) produced a television show on hidden wonders of Washington D.C. and discovered that the Men’s Titanic Memorial was the most overlooked monument. They also discovered that despite a promise by the founders and various women’s societies to lay a wreath annually on the anniversary, that after about a decade or so, the women lost interest, stopped doing it, and people forgot about the anniversary and the memorial. Their organization was founded to rectify the problem of people forgetting their history and losing interest. Each year on the vigil these men recreate the Titanic seven course dinner, arrive by bus in tuxedos, set up lights, come with a butler who pours champagne for each man, organize in a troop, march up to the monument, lay a wreath, and each offer toasts and commentaries on the story of the Titanic.

This time the emphasis is mine - :pink-shock: Recreate the seven course dinner? Have a butler pour champagne for them?

So I had to look up about this monument myself. No mention on this page about the yearly seven course wreath ceremony, but my my, my, I wonder where James Cameron might have gotten the inspiration for the infamous "I'm the kind of the world!" scene. http://www.glts.org/memorials/dc/womens.html (not breaking link, it's to the official Great Lakes Titanic Society page).

edited for riffles

[YPestis]

This time the emphasis is mine - :pink-shock: Recreate the seven course dinner? Have a butler pour champagne for them?

So I had to look up about this monument myself. No mention on this page about the yearly seven course wreath ceremony, but my my, my, I wonder where James Cameron might have gotten the inspiration for the infamous "I'm the kind of the world!" scene. http://www.glts.org/memorials/dc/womens.html (not breaking link, it's to the official Great Lakes Titanic Society page).

edited for riffles

I think this confirms where fundies view their position in society would have been during the time of the Titanic catastrophe. It's now with the steerage class, but with the uber-wealthy elite who brought their personal servants with them. Since the Edwardian period is so awesome in fundie's eyes because "men were men" and "women sipped tea", they have to gloss over the classism, racism and huge disparity in wealth of that time period. And really, how easy it is to gloss over this when all you do is imagine yourself as part of the elite anyway? No, because gender roles were perfected during that time period, fundies tend to ignore the glaring issues of the time, or they'd have to admit that the modern world, with all it's insane women's lib, is actually a better place to be.

[jenny_islander]

The Titanic concept is a fundie-friendly environment when society held values that our modern day fundies love so much AND they have all those wonderful costumes they can play dress up with! I'm serious here. I really think it's because Titanic was set in a time before society became "corrupt"; before women's lib, civil rights movement and before "prayer was removed" from schools. The "women and children first" theme goes also well with the fundie ideal of patriarchy. Dougie needs a theme to help implant the idea nobility of that time period, and Titanic is a perfect fit. Plus, it allows him to have all these dress up parties! I'm sure if it's not the Titanic, it would be some other historical event when "men were men" and women dressed in lace and silk and sipped tea all day.

Yup, life was cakes and tea for everyone! The Titanic sank less than a year after the Westmoreland County coal strike, in which uniformed police officers attacked and killed miners for the high crime of refusing to do unpaid labor without safety gear. (They only got paid per load of coal; they had to maintain the mines themselves.) Meanwhile, after unsuccessfully attempting to unionize, the workers at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory died in the deathtrap building they had campaigned to improve. But of course they didn't matter.

Doug Phillips is a tool.