A thought re: fundies and gestation

[Bloo]

Now, this is just kind of a random thought I had, but after studying it, it makes certain fundie thought processes easier to understand....

Many fundies believe that December 25th is actually Jesus's birthday. Most churches celebrate Gabriel's visit to Mary at the beginning of Advent, during or about the first week of December.

Maybe they believe all this nonsense about fully formed first trimester fetuses and early miscarriage funerals because they actually believe that Jesus was born at approximately four weeks gestation?!

Crazy, I know, but somehow more logical than most stuff they've posited.

[pixydust]

Hmm, I was raised fundie and I never heard about when (like month, etc) Gabriel visited Mary....also, we were taught that Jesus was born in April, because Shepherds wouldn't be watching the sheep in December (something about waiting for lambs to be born...not sure).

I've never heard fundies argue that Jesus was born in December, I'm sure some do, but it isn't a big doctrine. (I was fundie pentacostal and southern Baptist, FWIW)

[Sola]

Advent, I've not heard that before about Mary. I was brought up Christian too. The Dec 25th thing is a misnomer among practising Christians - fundies included - as most know that isn't the day of his birth. Most of the people who do say that is when he was born are the three-times-in-life type of Christians - Christening, Marriage, Funeral.

[stefanilynn76]

Are you talking about The Feast of the Immaculate Conception in the beginning of December? That day is the celebration of St Anne getting pregnant with Mary.

[salsa]

Hmm, I was raised fundie and I never heard about when (like month, etc) Gabriel visited Mary....also, we were taught that Jesus was born in April, because Shepherds wouldn't be watching the sheep in December (something about waiting for lambs to be born...not sure).

I've never heard fundies argue that Jesus was born in December, I'm sure some do, but it isn't a big doctrine. (I was fundie pentacostal and southern Baptist, FWIW)

That's how I understand it, too, from my fundie friends and family (though I wasn't raised fundy).

Fundies typically don't observe much of the liturgical calendar - and that includes Advent, so the gestational timeline is moot. Most (though there are the exceptions) celebrate Christmas Dec. 25th not because they believe that's the actual date of his birth, but because they go along with the chosen date and because the account(s) of Jesus' birth is/are in the Bible and they believe that the arrival of Jesus into the world is worthy of celebration (Maxwells and that family who didn't give their kids presents, notwithstanding).

IME, the Christmas celebration for most begins the Friday after Thanksgiving and lasts until Dec. 26 - or Jan 1 at the latest. If they really did take it literally, what's so different about Mary conceiving, visiting Elizabeth for 3 months, coming home, traveling to Bethlehem on foot, and delivering in 4 weeks than the immaculate conception in the first place?

edited because my first statement was initially misleading.

[rewoodley]

The whole thing with December 25th was when the wise men visited...

Stephen McEveety did a thing on it it is posted on youtube about the star of Bethlehem he uses astronomy to explain what he believes happened.

[gravelmonkey]

Are you talking about The Feast of the Immaculate Conception in the beginning of December? That day is the celebration of St Anne getting pregnant with Mary.

This. Despite the reading being about Gabriel visiting Mary, the feast is about Mary being conceived without original sin, not about the conception of Jesus.

[August]

Wasn't the Mary visit the Annunciation?

ETA: google check says yes, and she must ave ovulated on CD 5! It's a miracle!

[EmiGirl]

My church (SBC) did Advent this year. The pastor was good to point out that we don't know the exact date Christ was born and it probably didn't happen in December. As for the dates and everything, at least in my church it's never claimed that we do Advent on the exact dates. When you "celebrate" Advent, it's about the events around the birth of Christ; more like the telling of the story. In fact, the last week of Advent is looking forward to the Second Coming of Christ.

[clicker dies]

The whole thing with December 25th was when the wise men visited...

The Catholics in my family (and maybe Catholics in general? This is only from my experience) celebrate Three Kings Day/Feast of the Epiphany in early January in reference to when the Wise Men showed up, and Christmas Day as the day baby Jesus was born. I tried to point out that the babe was most likely born sometime in Spring but I never really get a clear response to it. Then I bring up the whole Saturnalia/Solstice angle and cue the eye rolling because the crazy heathen keeps ruining the fun...

I digress. But what I get from this is really nobody has any fucking clue how to agree on a timeline. :roll:

[Bethella]

According to Wikipedia:

The Annunciation (anglicised from the Latin Vulgate Luke 1:26-39 Annuntiatio nativitatis Christi), also referred to as the Annunciation to the Blessed Virgin Mary or Annunciation of the Lord, is the Christian celebration of the announcement by the angel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary that she would conceive and become the mother of Jesus, the Son of God, marking his Incarnation. Gabriel told Mary to name her son Jesus, meaning "Saviour". Many Christians observe this event with the Feast of the Annunciation on 25 March, nine full months before Christmas, the birthday of Jesus. According to Luke 1:26, the Annunciation occurred "in the sixth month" of Elizabeth's pregnancy with John the Baptist.[3] Irenaeus (c.130-202) of Lyon regarded the conception of Jesus as 25 March coinciding with the Passion.[4]

So at least some Christians do observe a full nine months on the calendar from annunciation to birth.

[miffy]

I thought the 25th was really an old pagan feast day?

On a similar matter there is a comet due to pass by the earth later this year that could have been the 'star of Bethlehem'.