Project Prevention: Sterilize for cash

[starlight]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 16,00.html

This group pays addicts to stop having children eithor via getting tubes ties or IUD. Do you think this is ethical?

[keen23]

Absolutely yes for an IUD. Because that's not permanent. It is a long-term, highly effected form of birth control.

A tubal is sterilization. I do think that this may enter the slippery slope of eugenics. I don't know that addicts have the ability to consent to this procedure while they are using. But at the same time, addicts fall into a group that may or may not be consenting to have sex, yet having it anyways without fully acknowledging the consequences that occur.

[dairyfreelife]

This is tough. If it's not forced, paying for an addict who wants to be sterilized wouldn't be unethical. But, and it's a big but, addicts are often desperate for cash to buy drugs and may do this for a few bucks and later regret it if they sober up. Which is where it falls into unethical. If a person is desperate for a some drug money, this seems to be taking advantage of that to sterilize people that they feel are less than human by their actions (doing illegal drugs).

An IUD, sure. This is temporary and can be removed if she does want a child at some point. Just because someone is an addict doesn't mean they'll always be an addict and may want a family once she's sobered up and IUD won't have permanently prevented that from happening.

[Dollypeeps]

They where talking of this in the UK but it was complete sterilisation which I am against but long term birth control I am for.

Folks that are addicts of whatever can change in the future so to take away their right for future kids is wrong if sterilised as that takes their choices away.

[Mama Mia]

I think it's interesting that they only receive $300 and have to submit an application and a bunch of documentation. To me that says that the only people who follow-through with getting the money probably would have decided for sterilization/ long term birth control anyway.

If it was a large amount of money it might sway someone who might not otherwise chosen sterilization. If there was not a big documentation/paperwork hassle someone who is just needing to feed their addiction might jump on it for the quick cash.

The combination of little financial reward and cumbersome paperwork requirements aren't likely to make anyone, most particularly someone with active addiction jump on it just for the cash.

At least that's how it looks to me - $300 might mean significantly more in other areas - in mine it wouldn't even get someone a room to rent for a month.

If the money is for long-term but not permanent birth control, I don't see anything wrong with it.

As for permanent sterilization - on a philosophical level - I'm mixed. People with addictions can and do change their behavior all the time - so being in a bad place to have children now does not mean that person couldn't / shouldn't be pregnant once they are clean. On the other hand - I've seen more than a few women who did the revolving door addiction/pregnancy/birth/ foster care / get kid back / lose kid permanently / get pregnant to replace kid -- repeat over and over cycle. It's pretty horrible for everyone involved and encouraging sterilization by providing a financial incentive might be one good strategy. But that isn't the vast majority of people in addiction. Just a small but heartbreaking minority.

[Bloo]

Addicts CAN go into recovery. They are one of the most stigmatized groups out there. Not all addicts are addicted to meth or crack or whatever, either- you can be addicted to alcohol, gambling, sex, shopping, food (as I am) or any number of other things. Even the IUD is a slippery slope and one I'd not condone.

Obviously this hits very close to home for me, but I fully believe that addicts can find recovery in a supportive environment. "You're worthless and should never reproduce" is not what I'd call supportive.

[Mama Mia]

Addicts CAN go into recovery. They are one of the most stigmatized groups out there. Not all addicts are addicted to meth or crack or whatever, either- you can be addicted to alcohol, gambling, sex, shopping, food (as I am) or any number of other things. Even the IUD is a slippery slope and one I'd not condone.

Obviously this hits very close to home for me, but I fully believe that addicts can find recovery in a supportive environment. "You're worthless and should never reproduce" is not what I'd call supportive.

As far as fetal development, alcoholism during pregnancy is generally going to have much worse long term impact than other drugs.

I'm not talking about the extremist - if you have a glass of wine at any point while pregnant omg ! horrors ! baby doomed ! fanaticism we see now, but full-on alcoholism that leads to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is generally going to cause far more problems than crack or heroin.

[Fargood]

is group pays addicts to stop having children eithor via getting tubes ties or IUD. Do you think this is ethical?

Yes for the IUD, no for the sterilization. Addicts are vulnerable. The IUD temporarily prevents an addict from exacerbating her situation with pregnancy and its economic and physical complications; however, sterilization is permanent. At such a vulnerable time, I question whether an addict can really consent to such a procedure, especially if a cash "bonus" is dangled in front of her.

I work with addicts from time to time in my practice and almost all of them have some sort of underlying mental condition for which they are self-medicating, thus the addiction. Staving off pregnancy for the near term gives them a chance to address tunderlying medical conditions (mental illness.) The reality in the US is that we need to start treating the mental health issues many of these addicts have instead of just throwing them in jail every few months when they get busted on a para or possession charge.

You know what happen when addicts go to jail? They become better drug addicts with more new drug addict friends to supply them.

[shedemei]

Yes on IUDs, but I also feel strongly in birth control being available to all who want/need it so I'm probably basing my opinion on that.

[Bloo]

As far as fetal development, alcoholism during pregnancy is generally going to have much worse long term impact than other drugs.

I'm not talking about the extremist - if you have a glass of wine at any point while pregnant omg ! horrors ! baby doomed ! fanaticism we see now, but full-on alcoholism that leads to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is generally going to cause far more problems than crack or heroin.

I'm aware. I just think that this attitude won't fix anything.

Plus, they're doing this with men, too, I believe.

This is a band aid and a poor one at that. We need education and support for addiction, and to remember that addicts are people. This is the wrong way to go about fixing the problem.

[Dysfundamental]

It's really difficult for single young women in the US with good health insurance to find a doctor who'll do a tubal ligation. Because those women would have "good" babies, I suppose, since they're in a position of enough privilege, economically and educationally, to have well-paying jobs with good insurance. This is messed up stuff here.

[valsa]

I don't personally have a problem with it. I do have a problem with sterilization being more open to "undesirable" potential mothers versus "good" potential mothers (ie- a minority drug addict is a lot more likely to be able to find someone willing to sterilize her than a white, middle class woman who knows she doesn't ever want children)

Would those of you who have a problem with it being permanent change your mind if there was some sort of clause like "the project will pay for the women's eggs to be frozen and, if they later get clean for X years, it will pay for fertility treatments if they want children"?

ETA: I do think $300.00 seems like too little money but, as someone else mentioned, maybe they think offering such a low amount of money will only draw in woman who want the sterilization anyway.

[OkToBeTakei]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... alcoholics

I mentioned this on another thread. It did not go down well in Glasgow.

[kb2]

No.

Permanent sterilization and IUDs and other birth control options should be easier to obtain. But paying people to get them is coercion.

[DarkAnts]

Yes for IUD no for sterilization. My sister was addicted to heroin. She is now recovering and has been sober for 6 years. She has a family now and is living a happy life. I consider sterilization to be a form of long term punishment for an addict who can become sober.

I am proud of all that my sister has accomplished. She has come a long way and I know she will continue to accomplish her goals.

[ADoyle90815]

Yes for an IUD, no for sterilization as addicts can and do go through rehab and remain sober.

[Beammeup]

I referred an addict in recovery to them once, years ago. She had already decided to get sterilized after her 6th child. I didn't bring it up until she told me she was having surgery. She took the $300 and bought things for her children. I was concerned about coercion, which is why I didn't bring up the program until she told me she was getting a tubal ligation. I remember the process was very involved.

This non profit has been around for years.

[Evilbad]

I think the idea is good, as often addicts may not get out of the addiction and yet continue to have more babies. I wish there was a way to sterilize the guys temporarily, too, but unfortunately the onus of this lies on the female addicts to not have children. It's a really horrible world, really horrible, and I think it's best that no children are born into it. It's not just the mother, it's the people she is generally around, the lifestyles that they live, and all sorts of nasty, unsavory things. a mother may manage to keep clean long enough to have her baby (or not) but if she's still living the lifestyle, that kid is in danger.

I'm not sure I agree about the tubal, though. But to be honest, I have family members who are addicts and I live in fear of them having any more children. They have proven over decades that they won't get clean, and they can't and won't care for those kids. They've lost kids and it hasn't seemed to matter. So, maybe I do agree with the tubal.

[RosyDaisy]

Nobody should bribe a woman into sterilization or to use birth control. It's still ultimately her body and her choice. I do think birth control should be made freely available to all women. While yes, there are plenty of people who go through rehab and remain sober, unfortunately that doesn't hold true for many. Any money given to addicts will most likely go towards more drugs. The thought of more money to feed their habit will make an addict do just about anything including getting sterilized.