Texas education board to rekindle evolution debate

[doggie]

the fruit cakes are at it again. someone needs to step in and fix this church getting involved in public schools.

JIM VERTUNO

Published: Jul 20, 2011 12:32 PM

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - The Texas State Board of Education meets this week for the first time under its conservative new chairwoman appointed by Gov. Rick Perry and is expected to rekindle the debate over teaching evolution and the origin of life in public schools.

Perry, who is considering a run for president and has embraced social conservatives in Texas, named Barbara Cargill chairwoman earlier this month. Cargill, a biology teacher considered to be one of the more conservative board members, disputes the theory of evolution and voted to require that the theory's weaknesses be taught in classrooms.

An intense fight over evolution and intelligent design theory in science curriculum put a national spotlight on the 15-member elected board in 2009 when it adopted standards that encourage public schools to scrutinize "all sides" of scientific theory.

The board is now considering supplemental online instructional materials that fit under those standards and could be used as early as August when classes resume. The new materials are necessary because the state could not afford to buy new textbooks this year, leaving students to use some that are several years old.

One group, Texans for a Better Science Education, has put out a call to pack Thursday's public hearing with testimony urging board members to adopt materials that question Charles Darwin's theory on the origin of life. A vote is scheduled Friday.

Board member Thomas Ratliff suggests anti-evolution groups will find it difficult to rally votes to their side.

"The young-earth, creationist crowd lost a vote in the last election, now they are looking for two votes," he said.

The supplement materials submitted for consideration include a high school biology e-book that promotes intelligent design despite federal court rulings against teaching the theory that life on Earth is so complex that it must have come from an intelligent higher power.

Supplemental materials that are approved will have the advantage of being on the state's recommended list, but school districts can still buy other materials they chose.

Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network, a group that advocates religious freedom and sides with mainstream science teachers on evolution, said she has been expecting another round of debate over evolution.

"The right-wing faction of the State Board of Education will make every effort to put their personal and political beliefs in science instruction," Miller said. "The strategy is to use junk science to undermine evolution."

The board has been known to make controversial moves. It adopted a social studies and history curriculum last year that amended or watered down the teaching of religious freedoms, the civil rights movement, America's relationship with the United Nations and hundreds of other items.

In one of the most significant changes, the board diluted the rationale for the separation of church and state in a high school government class. The ideological debate over the guidelines drew intense scrutiny beyond Texas.

Cargill was elected to the board in 2004 and is up for re-election in 2012. Her tenure is already off to a rocky start with some of her fellow Republicans after her comments earlier this month that the board has only six "true" conservative Christians. There are 11 Republicans on the board.

"Right now, there are six true conservative Christians on the board, so we have to fight for two votes. In previous years, we had to fight for one vote to get a majority," Cargill said during a July 7 meeting of the conservative group Texas Eagle Forum.

She told the Dallas Morning News, the Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express-News her comments were meant for a particular audience and "were not intended to be divisive."

Cargill, through a spokeswoman at the Texas Education Agency, declined an interview request from The Associated Press.

"It's an unfortunate start to her tenure," said board member Ratliff, who is considered one of the moderate Republicans on the board. "To continue to draw battle lines, I don't think it's moving in the right direction to restore the public's confidence in the board."

He dismissed Cargill's comments. "To be honest I could care less if she thinks I'm a conservative or a Christian," Ratliff told the AP. "I don't do either one for her."

Cargill isn't the first board leader to be involved in controversy. After the evolution debate in 2009, the Texas Senate rejected former chairman Don McLeroy's appointment amid complaints that the conservative advocated teaching creationism in public schools. The move was a rare rebuke of Perry's appointment powers.

[xReems]

I have never understood why some conservative Christians claim Creationism is science. It's NOT science at all since it's based on the Bible. Science involves years of research and evidence which Creationism lacks. The reason why courts turn down teaching of Creationism is because it's based on FAITH not science.

I seriously get annoyed with people like those who want public schools to teach this crap.

[debrand]

Although the right loves to pretend that they are the best representatives for what America stands for, they have no problem with ignoring the Constitution when it comes to their religion. Federal Courts have ruled against teaching Intelligence Designs in the classroom but the right doesn't care.

[cindyluvs24]

:dance: What's next? Ignore the law of gravity and adopt the theory of intelligent falling??

[xReems]

:dance: What's next? Ignore the law of gravity and adopt the theory of intelligent falling??

That and rain is created by God to show his sadness to the world that homosexuality, abortion, and stem cell research exists.

[SinInTheCamp]

That and rain is created by God to show his sadness to the world that homosexuality, abortion, and stem cell research exists.

That reminds me of a little boy I once babysat who thought thunder was god farting. I hope he's not now a fundamentalist freak who ignores his own holy texts and pretends that his savior wasn't a socialist hippie who hung out with whores and beggars.

[luckylassie]

I was taught evolution in High School (I graduated in 2009) but then again my school was one of the most liberal in the state . I guess some people want to have another spokes monkey episode like it's 1925. I live in TX and I can safely say that not many people I know are very fond of Gov. Perry right now (if they ever were at all).

[debrand]

I was taught about evolution in my school back in about 83. At the beginning of class the teacher gave a list of reasons that creationism coudln't be taught in science class. I wish that I could recall all of his reasons

He also told the class that they could be religious and believe in evolution.

[takers401]

I'm all for teaching creationism in schools, but in a religious studies class that includes discussions on all sorts of world religions and not just Christianity. You don't teach Math in English so why teach Religion in Science?

[Cassandra]

This just makes me want to sit on a floor and hit it repeatedly with my hands and scream "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO".

[lilwriter85]

I have never understood why some conservative Christians claim Creationism is science. It's NOT science at all since it's based on the Bible. Science involves years of research and evidence which Creationism lacks. The reason why courts turn down teaching of Creationism is because it's based on FAITH not science.

I seriously get annoyed with people like those who want public schools to teach this crap.

I also get extremely annoyed with people who want to teach Creationism in public schools. They tend to ignore that not all children in public schools are being raised in Christian households.

[xReems]

I also get extremely annoyed with people who want to teach Creationism in public schools. They tend to ignore that not all children in public schools are being raised in Christian households.

Exactly! These people, however, will use the whole "America was founded on Christian beliefs" (which is BS, too) as their reasoning behind teaching this subject. Teach it in a religion class or at a Christian school but keep it out of public school. Show me some scientific proof that Creationism is a theory and I might reconsider but using the Bible as your "scientific research" doesn't count.

What annoys me is that some of these Christians think evolution is about human evolution from monkeys which is completely false. I just took Evolutionary Biology this past spring semester and no where in the book did it say that we evolved from monkeys. We share similar stuff with them but we did not evolve from them. Christians have taken that and turned it into that we evolved from monkeys. Some of these people need to get their facts straight.

Seriously, being a Biotechnology major, I cannot stand idiots arguing. Trust me, I can argue until I turn blue over the whole Evolution vs. Creationism argument.

[Nothing2CHere]

Time to pull out the Doonesbury comic from a few weeks ago!

(ETA an image that can actually be read)

[Cassandra]

Exactly! These people, however, will use the whole "America was founded on Christian beliefs" (which is BS, too) as their reasoning behind teaching this subject. Teach it in a religion class or at a Christian school but keep it out of public school. Show me some scientific proof that Creationism is a theory and I might reconsider but using the Bible as your "scientific research" doesn't count.

What annoys me is that some of these Christians think evolution is about human evolution from monkeys which is completely false. I just took Evolutionary Biology this past spring semester and no where in the book did it say that we evolved from monkeys. We share similar stuff with them but we did not evolve from them. Christians have taken that and turned it into that we evolved from monkeys. Some of these people need to get their facts straight.

Seriously, being a Biotechnology major, I cannot stand idiots arguing. Trust me, I can argue until I turn blue over the whole Evolution vs. Creationism argument.

Believe me, I'm an anthropology major and I'm interested in paleoanthropology (AKA hominids that existed prior to Homo sapiens), so when people claim that we evolved from chimps I just shake my head and give up on them. I used to try to explain to them the idea of a common ancestor but it never works.

[emmiedahl]

I'm all for teaching creationism in schools, but in a religious studies class that includes discussions on all sorts of world religions and not just Christianity. You don't teach Math in English so why teach Religion in Science?

Totally my attitude. Keep science in science and religion in religion, and let people decide how to reconcile the two.

My children are not taught facts that are essential to science literacy because other people choose not to believe them. Where are my rights, where is my choice in this? Why is someone else's religion being forced on my children in a government sponsored school?

[xReems]

Believe me, I'm an anthropology major and I'm interested in paleoanthropology (AKA hominids that existed prior to Homo sapiens), so when people claim that we evolved from chimps I just shake my head and give up on them. I used to try to explain to them the idea of a common ancestor but it never works.

Nope it does not. Talking to those who strongly believe in Creationism and wanting to teach it in public schools makes me want to slam my head against the wall. I think my 3 year old cousin would understand why Creationism should not be taught in public schools than conservative Christians.

[pomology]

I was taught about evolution in my school back in about 83. At the beginning of class the teacher gave a list of reasons that creationism coudln't be taught in science class. I wish that I could recall all of his reasons.

This reminds me that my AP Biology textbook had a really snarky explanation of why evolution is considered a theory (as in, what a scientific theory actually means as opposed to what dumbass creationists thing it means). I wish I had written it down.

Also, creationism was never brought up as anything but a joke in my public high school (although to be fair I grew up in an ultra-liberal elite college town).

[AlexIsAwake]

I'm a Libertarian, so I feel that if it weren't for government involvement in education, problems like these would not even arise. Parents who want evolution taught to their children should be free to send them to likeminded schools, and likewise with Christian parents who believe in Creationism. Not that these 2 viewpoints represent the whole of origins beliefs - let's not forget the Buddhists and other religions of the world as well. We are all free to believe as we wish, and so it DOES necessarily present a problem when we are trying to take students from all walks of life and cram them into a one-size-fits-all science classroom. This isn't a political forum though, so I'm not going to go into the Libertarian solutions to government-run education. That's what Google is for. Just wanted to point out that this debate will continue to arise so long as we have public education funded by taxpayers.

I myself am a Christian who believes in an old universe/earth, but do not actually believe in human evolution. To be honest, I'm not yet sure WHAT I believe with regards to origin of the species. I was raised as a young earth Creationist, but recently discovered the teachings of Hugh Ross of Reasons to Believe. I highly recommend any of you who are interested to take a look at his website. There are hundreds of scientific (and also theological) articles explaining how and why he feels he can state that what we learn from science (that the universe is billions of years old) does not disagree with what we read in the Bible when the Bible is interpreted correctly through looking at the original usage of the language in which it was written. Like I said, I'm new to this idea but am so far thoroughly convinced of an old universe/earth (his dvd Journey Towards Creation is an excellent primer resource here). Since I've been focusing on the development of the universe/earth so much, I haven't yet studied what he believes on origins of the species. However, I know that in general he does believe the Bible teaches direct creation of humans by God (and that human evolution cannot be proven, but that if science were to suggest this, he is open to exploration, study, and testing of all new theories), but am unsure about the rest of the animals/life-forms. He is a "day-ager" which means each creation day in the Bible is actually equivalent to thousands or millions of years. It's all fascinating stuff to me.

[emmiedahl]

Definition of theory in science = a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: like Einstein's theory of relativity.

A theory is more than a fact. It is a principle that explains a large subset of fact. This is different from the colloquial definition. It's like when people say, doctors don't actually know anything and that's why they are "practicing" medicine. It's a semantic argument and totally irrelevant.

[doggie]

it is impossible to interpret the bible correctly. First no one can view the original bible so we don't know if what the bible became is right. We don't live in biblical times so it is guesswork as to the meaning of the words quite a bit of the time. The bible was never one document so it is not cohesive. it is a jumble of different authors different times different opinions.

[debrand]

Religious people can start their own schools or homeschool. The public school is funded by government money and is used by students of many different beliefs.

Teaching creationism in a religion class is perfectly acceptable. I have no problem with that. Creationism should not be taught in a science class because it is not science.

If there was no government funding of education, many people could not attend school.

[slickcat79]

The board has been known to make controversial moves. It adopted a social studies and history curriculum last year that amended or watered down the teaching of religious freedoms, the civil rights movement, America's relationship with the United Nations and hundreds of other items.

This actually bothers me intensely. I was aware of their debates the last time the whole intelligent design thing came up, but I didn't know they'd made so much progress in revising or glossing over so much history. There's a reason that the "liberal" thinking that's so prevalent at many universities is such a revelation to many young adults...because they are so rarely allowed critical thought in lower schools.

[lilwriter85]

Exactly! These people, however, will use the whole "America was founded on Christian beliefs" (which is BS, too) as their reasoning behind teaching this subject. Teach it in a religion class or at a Christian school but keep it out of public school. Show me some scientific proof that Creationism is a theory and I might reconsider but using the Bible as your "scientific research" doesn't count.

What annoys me is that some of these Christians think evolution is about human evolution from monkeys which is completely false. I just took Evolutionary Biology this past spring semester and no where in the book did it say that we evolved from monkeys. We share similar stuff with them but we did not evolve from them. Christians have taken that and turned it into that we evolved from monkeys. Some of these people need to get their facts straight.

Seriously, being a Biotechnology major, I cannot stand idiots arguing. Trust me, I can argue until I turn blue over the whole Evolution vs. Creationism argument.

The people who I have encountered that want creationism taught in public schools also used the whole "America founded on Christian beliefs" as their reasoning too and that is annoying. For me, it is more the ignorance that some of those people have towards agnostics, atheists and people from non-Christian religions that annoys me more in the creationism/evolution debate. I was raised Catholic but my parents respected that evolution had to be taught in schools. My parents also disliked school prayer and other things could be seen as religious in a public school. My parents had friends who were atheists and agnostics and I learned early on that there are always going to be people that don't believe in God or higher entity. I became an atheist a few years ago after I began questioning certain things about religion and I did study biology and earth sciences a bit more when I was in college.

In the past few years, I have seen how some American Christians simply don't want to try to understand non-Christians or non-theists here. Sometimes they will throw out "atheists hate God" which is a dumb thing to say. Other times they say that atheists or agnostics are raised by liberals another thing that isn't always true. A couple of years back there was a woman and her son who lived next to me. The son suffered from severe bipolar and has receive SSDI since he was 18, I believe he is 30 now. One time he was talking with me and my bf about how he was upset about how some public schools can't put up nativity sets or do Christian theme plays and he also didn't like how evolution is taught in schools. My boyfriend explained to him that there are some children whose parents aren't Christians. He argued back about most Americans being Christians and how the majority should rule. My boyfriend decided to end that subject because he didn't want to get in a huge argument.

I agreed with my bf. My former neighbor dropped out of high school at age 15 because of his mental illness and in a lot of ways he lacked a lot of life skills. He had never been employed and he never got a GED. He had told us that he had read the Bible from cover to cover a few times and he seemed to think he was an expert on it and he said there was nothing that he questioned from the bible. If he had been different in a lot of ways, my bf would have argued with him. I felt sorry for my former neighbor because I know how difficult having mental illness can be, but I had to laugh at times how he tried to present himself as an a well educated conservative Christian because I know several conservatives that would verbally ripped him to shreds for being almost 30 and having no work experience. I found myself annoyed with him mostly because he couldn't make good arguments against evolution when he had no knowledge on the subject.

[twin2]

Ugh, my head hurts too much to comment about this. I'll let my two favorite philosophers Frank and Ernest take care of it.

[lilwriter85]

Ugh, my head hurts too much to comment about this. I'll let my two favorite philosophers Frank and Ernest take care of it.

love this thanks for posting.