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Destiny31's Corner

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What Are You Doing? Chapter 11: Courting Parents

So, at @choralcrusader8613's suggestion, I printed this whole clusterfuck of fail, just so I could set fire to it when I'm done. Just thought you guys should know. Also, Mister destiny has started his diet again and I'm being supportive, so I am doing this shit sober today. THIS is love FJ!

The title of this chapter is irrationally bothering me. Courting Parents? Are his parents courting? Are one of the protagonists result of *gasp* unwed sex? I mean, I *think* know what he was TRYING to say, but Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ, get a fucking editor you fucking fuck!

We are back in the park. Apparently Nosy Busybody is reading in the park. I have questions! These fuckers seem to spend all day every day in the fucking park. How is Nosy Busybody supporting the 328843928432 kids he's supposed to have if he is just chilling in the park all. the. fucking. time? The whole first page is Asshole Plot device explaining how courtship and parental interaction works, and I'm not going through that shit. I don't know @Buzzard has done it the eleventy times she has done it in Duggarville. I will note for you that Nosy Busybody is every bit as pretentious and annoying as he has been for this whole god damned book, and keeps asking annoying leading questions that make me want to punch him in the face.

Quote

Sakal: After spending a week or so dating Maydyn?

Andrew: Oh, not a week! Courtships are much longer than that.

Sakal: Oh... why?

Andrew: Because you have to decide if you are the right people to marry, and whether God will be glorified in your marriage.

Sakal: And that takes a long time?

Andrew: Of course.

Sakal: Why? 

Oh FFS. For the record, at no point did Asshole Plot Device mention a week. That's the "clever" writing trying to talk down on how long it takes to get married in courtships. I mean Jesus H, the average courtship seems to take under 6 months for most of the people we follow. I guess that's 6 months that she could be pregnant, or the poor husband is having to not get laid. Gag. I really want a fucking glass of wine right now. 

Quote

Sakal: Oh, but I didn’t court Isha... not until after I was betrothed to her, anyway, and I think that is different from what you are thinking about. Indeed, our betrothal day was the first time I had ever seen her. 

You know, at some point in the past, some FJ'r made a crack about the purity olympics leading to shit like this. It's sad that what we though was extreme is actually a belief being spouted by someone who is in a position to make his ideas heard and followed. Asshole Plot Device rightly calls him a fucking nutbar for getting engaged or betrothed or whatever the fuck to someone he just met, which leads to this:

Quote

Sakal: Oh? Then why is what Isha and I did crazy?

Andrew: Well, I guess, if it works for you but...

Sakal: ‘Works for you’?! Is that the way you apply God’s Word to your life? Whatever ‘works for you’?

Andrew: [Blushes] I didn’t mean that, I just meant that... I don’t know what I mean. How could you do that?

Sakal: Do what? Love my wife?

First, you god damned motherfucking asshole, Boring Plot Device never said a fucking thing about whether or not you loved your wife, so stop the putting of words in someone's mouth. It's obnoxious, and so are you you fucking fuck! Second, Boring Plot Device is right. Marriage is a HUGE commitment, especially in fundie circles where divorce is Just Not Done. I can't even imagine marrying someone I didn't at least like. Friendship, at the very least, is in my opinion a requirement for a happy marriage. 

Boring Plot Device says that it's important to be sure that the person that they are marrying is right for them and the one god has for them and all the boring courtship shit that they all spout, and then this happens, and I lose my shit:

Quote

Andrew: Because it must be the right person. Look, Maydyn and I found this old sermon on courtship. And it gave four principles that it said must guide our choice. 1) Choose a Christian, 2) Choose a Kindred Spirit, 3) Look for Character, 4) Look for Accomplishments. Don’t those sound wonderful?

Sakal: They certainly do. But your list leaves me wondering two things. First of all, is this list itself Biblical: do the Scriptures say that only people like this may be married? And second, does the Scripture tell you, yourself, to do the choosing?

Andrew: Well, I hope the first one is obvious, anyway. Of course she must be a Christian. Isn’t it written, “In the Lord?"

Sakal: It certainly is. It is also written not to be unequally yoked, although the context is not at all marriage, and it cannot seriously have been intended to be applied to marriage. 

I lost my shit entirely. I screamed fuck you so loud all three cats are staring at me, the dog started barking, and Mister destiny came running to see what had happened. He apparently had headphones on. I then got so angry that I burned the chapters I've already completed with EXTREME RELISH, while screaming 'fuck you you fucking fuck' the whole time.

There's so much wrong here. First, we are using marriage as a way of 'repentance' for sexual sin, and now Vaughn Ohlman (who is a creeper) is suggesting that the couple doesn't even need to be the same fucking religion. Granted, in normal non fundie marriage, it is not unheard of for a couple to be from different religions, but when we are talking fundies who have their whole life revolve around their church and their beliefs, that's a recipe for disaster. This whole shitshow is a disaster, but wow. 

The verse he is citing is from 2 Corinthians 6:15. I'll grant him that this verse does not specifically say marriage, but it does mention partnership. If I shouldn't go into business with a non-Christian, why in the world would it be ok to do something as life-changing as fucking marry and procreate with them. His Scriptural evidence for this is ..... lacking to say the least.

Quote

Sakal: If the boy is to choose, it certainly seems that that would be a wise choice.

Andrew: What do you mean, ‘if the boy is to choose’?

Sakal: Again, your list presumes that it is the boy himself who will do the choosing. And it also presumes he has a choice.

Andrew: Who else would choose for him? She is to be his wife!

Sakal: Well, you know your Scriptures. How often was it that the boy, himself, chose his wife? 

 Oh dear, RUN Asshole Plot Device RUN! The trap is closing around you and you don't even see it. Much as I really hate Asshole Plot Device, he doesn't deserve the mindfucking he's about to receive. They go back and forth for a while looking for biblical support for allowing someone to choose their own spouse. Andrew hits on Jesus having chosen us, the church, and then this happens:

Quote

Andrew: Yes, that’s a very good example. Christ chose us!

Sakal: Oh?

Andrew: What do you mean...? Oh, well, that’s right. He chose us, because his father told him to choose us.

Ok, I'm VERY confused. What sort of weird shit is this guy being taught / teaching in his church? Cos where I come from, Jesus chose to die for us and all that jazz. Yeah, there's the bit in Gethsemane when he asks god to take the cup away, but then he, of his own volition, goes and does the thing. Does anyone understand this teaching? is this some sort of denominational thing I just have never been exposed to?

They go back and forth trying to find biblical support for another page, and it's mostly stories told out of context. One they bring up is Esther marrying the king. Did that even happen? I honestly don't remember. My days of being Bible Bee winner are LONG past, but my vague memories include her being in his harem, not a wife, which means the relationship was likely rape since Esther couldn't say no. Not that she wasn't awesome and clever and everything, but I don't think her story has anything to do with marriage.

Tl;dr of this whole chapter is that the people participating in the marriage do what they are told cos vague, out of context reasons, and there's no reason to consider compatibility. I can't believe I got through this sober. Send help FJ, SEND HELP!

PS: By the way, if you are wondering, when Asshole Plot Device leaves, Nosy Busybody says he will be here, in the park, when next he wants to talk. I STILL want to know how this fucker makes a damn living. 

PS2: This chapter just went in the fucking fire too, cos fuck this shit. 

  • Upvote 6


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Destiny

Posted

I just did a quick search, and I used 21 fucks in this chapter. Sorry, not sorry. 

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted

Wow. Courtships last too long. A Christian doesn't need to care about the religion of his wife as long as Daddy says to marry her. Jesus didn't die on the cross as an atonement for our sins because He chose to, but because His dad forced Him. The verse in 2 Corinthians about not being unequally yoked has absolutely nothing to do with marriage. Vaughn Ohlman (is a creeper) has essentially broken with Christianity and created his own religion based on badly selected Bible verses taken out of context. Wow.

As far as the book of Esther goes, it's been rather a few years since I read it, so most of my memory of it is tainted by the Veggie Tales video. King What's-His-Face is displeased by his wife, Vashti, and has her executed. (In the Veggies version she refuses to make him a sandwich at 3 in the morning, so he exiles her. :laughing-rolling: I don't think they were talking about Michelle Duggar's version of "making him a sandwich".)

King Xerxes (?) has a huge roundup of beautiful maidens and picks his favorite one, Esther. He marries her and she is able to use her position as queen to save the Israelites from the evil machinations of Haman. So, I'm pretty sure she did marry the king, but she didn't have any real choice in the matter. He had plenty of choice, unless you subscribe to the idea that God was manipulating him to save the Jews. Xerxes dad certainly didn't choose Esther for him. 

Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper, a pedophilic pimp, and a complete wacko. I think burning his words was a very smart thing to do.

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Destiny

Posted

I sit corrected. It's been a good 25 years since I've read the story and I forgot they married. That said, since she was a captive and in his harem, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess her consent was not given or required again. No wonder that fucker liked the story.

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted (edited)

Hmm, it seems I was wrong about a few things in the book of Esther. Xerxes takes away Vashti's title as queen and orders that she never again enter his presence, but he doesn't have her killed. The beautiful maidens are put in the king's harem and the king gets to spend a night with each one as part of his process in selecting a new queen. (Ick.) So, Esther was part of his harem and then he made her queen, so I guess it wasn't exactly marriage as we think of it. She started out more like the most honored and favored concubine than a wife, really. :my_confused: 

And yeah, I bet Vaugh Ohlman (is a creeper) adores King Xerxes.

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

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formergothardite

Posted

3 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

The beautiful maidens are put in the king's harem and the king gets to spend a night with each one as part of his process in selecting a new queen. (Ick.)

Growing up I was told they had a nice dinner together and talked and I was an adult before I realized she was raped. 

Doesn't Jesus being forced to die for our sins take away the whole point of the salvation story? I've never heard of this theology that Jesus only died for our sins because he was forced to do it. 

 

Quote

Sakal: Do what? Love my wife?

No, love a total stranger that you married because you wanted to have sex. That isn't love and is bound to cause some marriage problems. 

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clueliss

Posted

The title for this 'chapter' when I saw it on my unread activity list immediately made me think of Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver.  And if any kid came up to me and acted anything like ol' Eddie - I'd wonder what the heck he (or she) was up to.

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CTRLZero

Posted

Andrew: Who else would choose for him? She is to be his wife!

Sakal: Well, you know your Scriptures. How often was it that the boy, himself, chose his wife?

The subtitle of this whole book (and premise of this whole cult) is "daddy gets to inspect young breasts for marriageability cuz we've mangled the Bible to fit our pedophilic pimp worldview").  Creepy pedophilic pimp creeper Vaughn Ohlman.

With the Bill Gothard connection, I suppose the Duggars have incorporated this fine literature into their SOTDRT

(And what is the backstory on Michelle Duggar's sandwich-making?  I hope it won't make me want to add even more kahlua to my morning coffee, lol.)

:obscene-drinkingdrunk:

 

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choralcrusader8613

Posted

10 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

(In the Veggies version she refuses to make him a sandwich at 3 in the morning, so he exiles her. :laughing-rolling: I don't think they were talking about Michelle Duggar's version of "making him a sandwich".)

Well, guess I'm making a shopping trip for some brain bleach LOL :P ...:brainbleach:

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Destiny

Posted

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Doesn't Jesus being forced to die for our sins take away the whole point of the salvation story? I've never heard of this theology that Jesus only died for our sins because he was forced to do it. 

To be fair, the text doesn't say forced, but it does say god told him to. It's fucking weird and part of no theology I have ever seen.

In other news, I was just led by the spirit to try this and boohooo, all my hard work of typing is a creeper is for naught so far:

vaughn_ohlman_-_Google_Search.png

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

snipped

(And what is the backstory on Michelle Duggar's sandwich-making?  I hope it won't make me want to add even more kahlua to my morning coffee, lol.)

snipped

Actually, Ma Duggar is known for saying sort of the opposite about sandwich making: "Anyone can make your kids or husband a sandwich, but only you, his wife, can fulfil that special need he has for physical intimacy." (Heavily paraphrased.)

Ugh. Now I need the brain bleach, too! :brainbleach:

And Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper!

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

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laPapessaGiovanna

Posted (edited)

I keep reading "shakal", very similar to the Italian word "sciacallo" meaning jackal. It seems more appropriate. 

ETA Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper and a pedophilic pimp.

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna

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Destiny

Posted

41 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Actually, Ma Duggar is known for saying sort of the opposite about sandwich making: "Anyone can make your kids or husband a sandwich, but only you, his wife, can fulfil that special need he has for physical intimacy." (Heavily paraphrased.)

OH GOD SEND HELP AND BRAIN BLEACH. THIS IMAGE WENT THROUGH MY HEAD!

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted

1 hour ago, Destiny said:

OH GOD SEND HELP AND BRAIN BLEACH. THIS IMAGE WENT THROUGH MY HEAD!

Sorry. :) Would it help if you imagined Xerxes and Vashi as giant talking pickles, like in Veggie Tales? (It's at about 3:58)

Spoiler

 

 

In any case, here: :brainbleach::brainbleach::brainbleach::brainbleach::brainbleach:.

And just in case::eyewash: .

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CTRLZero

Posted

Thank you @WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?, and for extra brain bleach!

Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper.  When I searched for Vaughn Ohlman is a creeper, a picture of the Duggar family appeared first in the photos section.  I bet they love being tangentially connected to Vaughn Ohlman (is a creeper).

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  • Posts

    • Ozlsn

      Posted

      4 hours ago, thoughtful said:

      Gary's not gonna meet God for somebody else, he's going to meet God for himself. "Ah'm gonna meet God the way ah preached, ah'm gonna meet God  the way ah soul-winned, ah'm gonna meet God the way ah the way ah sang,  ah'm gonna meet God the way ah treated mah family, amen?"

      Boy is he screwed.

      4 hours ago, thoughtful said:

      Most of the time, he reminds us, your enemy will be someone in church

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      4 hours ago, thoughtful said:

      Gary doesn't like smiling. When they were in New Mexico, someone there who was a professional PHOtoegrapher ("whatever that word is" Becky: "phoTOGrapher") took their picture. Gary hates having pictures taken (apparently, that's very different from video). He says he didn't smile in any of

      Well that explains the scowl in his daughter's wedding photos.

      4 hours ago, thoughtful said:

      He tells the story of the man who was called to be a preacher because of Gary's Facebook video, and needs Becky and Jacob to help him remember when it all happened.

      I'm seriously starting to wonder if he has a neurodegenerative condition and Becky is hanging in there for the inheritance.

    • Katzchen24

      Posted

      That's a really interesting article. I hadn't really thought about it, but the majority of the fundies we snark on really do only rant on a limited number of themes. Mostly it's abortion, female purity, anti-LGBTQI and  general KJV-ness. 

      "The Bible’s exhortations to compassion for immigrants and the poor stretch long enough to comprise a sizeable book of their own, but no matter. White evangelicals will not let their political ambitions be constrained by something as pliable as scripture."

      Maybe FJ selects to snark on only a particular type of fundie, but I have NEVER heard one obsess about the poor or immigrants even one iota as much as they do about modesty or abortion. 

      As far as I'm concerned, the fundie obsession with female purity is a power and control grab dressed up as godliness. I've never understood why men have so much power over the female reproductive system and how so much prestige has been granted to male inheritance. It makes so much more sense for inheritance to be matrilineal if you want to be really sure of parentage. 

      • I Agree 3
    • SolomonFundy

      Posted

      You may be thinking of the Goodwins. Atlanta and Jordan live on a homestead (adjacent to his family) in middle Tennessee. A few years ago, they acquired a second, larger wood stove to use in their home, and moved the smaller wood stove to an exterior porch for Summertime cooking. This accomplished the tandem goal of allowing heat to remain outdoors in the Summer, and indoors in the Winter as the larger stove is capable of heating the entire house in colder months. The smaller stove is eventually supposed to be moved to an unfinished area of the homestead that is intended as a Summer kitchen. Atlanta and Jordan now have 6 children, and she generally spaces about 18 months apart. So your memory of a baby + pregnancy is entirely possible. (The last two children were twins.)

      I'm not sure what you consider "well connected" to entail, but Atlanta and Jordan have quite a few social ties to fundy families. They also infamously had a Civil War themed wedding, complete with Confederate flags, antebellum dresses, and southern army uniforms for the men. She's remotely descended from Nathaniel Bedford Forrest (Confederate army general), and the wedding was held at his childhood home site. Forrest is credited with founding the KKK. Not exactly the family connection that most people would think to celebrate on their wedding day, but I guess Atlanta and Jordan felt that it was a appropriate for themselves. 😑

      • Love 1
    • marmalade

      Posted

      On 8/3/2020 at 12:16 PM, HereticHick said:

      Where did he say that he knows zero Spanish? And I wonder what language he studied at Syracuse, which I believe has a language requirement.

      He did grad school at Syracuse. Not sure if his undergrad had a foreign language requirement. I think it was a small liberal arts college, so I imagine it did. However, he could have fulfilled it in high school when he went to public school to boost his soccer. 

    • SolomonFundy

      Posted

      3 hours ago, calliopecassandra said:

      I'd say getting pregnant again 5 months after a stillborn is pretty soon. I know after a miscarriage, you're "supposed" to wait 6 months. Oh and they had to wait 6 weeks to have sex again. Are they people who say so many days after a girl birth and less after a boy, do we know?

      Susannah wasn't stillborn. She lived for several days after birth on life support. Melanie and Nathan seem to have a pattern of trying very soon after a loss. Susannah's death was incredibly traumatic for the whole family, and I personally don't think that they were any more irresponsible than any other couple who has 2 babies in 14 months. But then, about a year after Abby was born, they had a miscarriage. 10 months later, Betsy was born. So, over the course of 3.5 years, they had four pregnancies, including three full term births, the loss of Susannah soon after birth, and a miscarriage. 

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