Jump to content

Destiny31's Corner

  • entries
    28
  • comments
    230
  • views
    4,583

Destiny

991 views

I started reading this chapter at noon my time, so the beginning, at least, of this mess will be done sober. Captain Courtship and Nosy Busybody are sitting together. One would assume in the same fucking park, but this shitty shitty writer didn't bother setting his scene. I know I shouldn't expect better because he's proven himself to be such a shit writer, but JFC couldn't SOMEONE have edited this shit to have it make fucking SENSE? Even fan fiction writers who write for FREE know they need beta readers to help them catch shit, and this fucking guy is fucking selling this bullshit for actual real god damned money. ARGH. Yes, I do realize I'm a grammar and formatting nazi, and no, I'm not sorry. 

We open with Captain Courtship saying he was uncomfortable discussing these topics in front of an unmarried Asshole Plot Device. I know I keep fucking harping on this, but seriously, why the shit is a dude who is RESPONSIBLE FOR FUCKING HELPING YOUTH NAVIGATE SEX AND RELATIONSHIPS UNABLE TO TALK ABOUT SEX? This really really bothers me. It's like the blind leading the blind. Anyway, moving on, Captain Courtship is suffering anal pain because he feels like Nosy Busybody wasn't fair to courtship. 

Captain Courtship says that he feels like Nosy Busybody was implying that courtship deliberately exposes kids to lust, which leads to this gem:

Quote

Sakal: I see those as the same temptation, but putting that aside, you use a word, ‘deliberate’ which can mean at least two different things. Firstly, it can mean ‘slowly’; and secondly it can mean ‘intentionally’. You must at least admit that the method is slow. 

What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck did I just read? First, stop being a pedantic asshole Nosy Busybody, and second, WHY is it bad to take your time with deciding who you are going to marry? I mean, I think I've made it beyond crystal clear how much I dislike courtship, but I'd rather see people courting than following this model. At least there's fucking consent (usually), and some semblance of making sure that this person is right for you. The idea of being rushed into a marriage because I can't keep my fingers off my goodies is so appalling that I still can't even with this shit. 

Quote

 

Sakal: Well, yes and no... and yes. I doubt there is anyone out there (except Satan) who is saying to themselves, “I like this courtship system because it promotes lust.” But the system itself does promote lust, and in a way that is directly contrary to what Scripture tells us to do. So it is a deliberate system, and it does promote lust.

Indeed, some courtship advocates even hint at this. Douglas Wilson is brave enough to point out that courtship is a sexual relationship. Indeed, he even calls it a ‘volatile sexual relationship’. He then says, that the term courtship, it’s etymology, has it’s origin in practices just as unbiblical as dating. Courtship, as it was originally practiced, was where a variety of vain young men convinced other men’s wives to commit adultery with them.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the shit Lana? Courtship promotes lust? I'm getting a mental picture of Kristina and her intended (whose name I forget) with their fucking ruler to make sure that they don't touch. Granted, not all courting couples follow those same rules, but by and large, there's a huge emphasis on "purity". Also, I would really really like to know how exactly lust is promoted, other than the whole but they have boobs and erections so marry them off bullshit that permeates this whole book. 

The second paragraph actually includes a couple of footnotes, because that's one of the bigger piles of WTF I have seen in a while. I tried to follow the path to figure out what the fuck Vaughn Ohlman (who is a creeper!) was on about, but the footnote simply gives the name of a book and a page number, and I'm sorry FJ, I am not getting that book. I love my liver too much. I really really really really fucking want to know how the actual fuck the original practice of courtship was intended to convince married women to commit adultery. If anyone has a copy of Her Hand in Marriage by Douglas Wilson, please contact me because I really want to know what the shit he is on about. They go back and forth for a bit about how courtship is designed to encourage lust and I just can't even. 

Quote

Sakal: That is the hardest of all. The courtship system does, really, look at a young man who admits to lust, or fornication, and they really, seriously, and deliberately tell him ‘too bad, you can’t have a wife’. It is actually down in black and white, in book after book, on website after website... if you don’t have victory over lust or fornication, you cannot get married. 

Wow. So, that happened. How very dare that we expect young men who want to marry to have some basic self control? I can't even imagine how terrifying the wedding night must be for the poor girls that this asshole sells off. Seriously, I'm crying right now. 

Quote

 

Sakal: [Waits patiently for a minute, then says] How can I give my ‘innocent’ daughter to such a man?

Charles: Yes!

Sakal: First of all, I doubt she is all that innocent. She may be naïve, that certainly seems to be the case amongst the young people in your churches... the ones that haven’t fallen to fornication already, that is. But she isn’t sinless any more than he is. Perhaps she is even a worse sinner, it is God who judges the heart, not us. And, again, it doesn’t matter. Scripture is absolutely clear on this... that is the kind of man that needs a wife. The modern church’s view seems to be that we should only give water to someone who has conquered thirst, or preach the gospel to someone who has conquered sin.

 

 

[disclaimer: I am picking up after an hour or so because I was so upset by this that I walked away because I was literally thinking I might puke.]

Oh. My. God. Just when you think it can't get worse, it does. I guess this explains why Josh was married off after his little 'indiscretions' (please note that I'm not minimizing his actions, I'm just giving the fundie it's not that big a deal line.). He fucked up and so he gets a wife so he has a convenient hole to fuck as a solution to his problem. Just fucking wow. Then you include the casual misogyny of oh, she can't be that innocent, and this is just fucking no. The way I read this bit has some gross gross shades of women are whores that makes me so so sad. 

Quote

Sakal: It means that the young man... or woman, but most of us focus on the young man, who finds himself tempted, or even finds himself sinning, in a sexual area, is obligated to not only repent in the usual way... admit his sin, be sorry for it, etc. but he is also obligated to turn to the remedy that God Himself has designed for that sin. His very seeking of a wife is an act of repentance. 

That's so romantic and clearly a solution for life long happiness. "sorry babbbbee, but I couldn't control myself with women, so to prove to god I'm sorry, I had to marry you." I feel like that would lead to me resenting the shit out of my husband if I knew he only married me because it was for sex. How is a husband supposed to love his wife as christ loved the church if he only married her for sex? This makes no god damned sense whatsoever. 

They are going back and forth about why kids need to marry and it's all the usual bullshit: a helpmeet for the husband and babbiiiiezzzzz for the wife, so I'm just gonna skip it cos it's the fundie horseshit we've heard 398394384 times in other places. There's also some shit about Reformed theology that I don't really understand because I'm not Christian anymore, but there's a snide remark about how the reformers need to reform back to the Bible and I hope he didn't think that was clever cos it wasn't. 

Moving on, they go back and forth about how to decide if a young man is "qualified" to be married and Nosy Busybody shames Captain Courtship a bit for being uncomfortable with the idea of going to the parents of a potential spouse for his child. There are a lot of boring walls of text in this chapter, which is now, blessedly, OVER. 

  • Upvote 3

11 Comments


Recommended Comments

WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted

Just when I thought that maybe the FLDS was the cult with the worst treatment of young girls, Vaughn Ohlman (Is A Creeper) came along to show me how wrong I was. It's just so sick and twisted. I've pretty much run out of adjectives for now. :sigh:

Even though I live in the same state as Doug Wilson ( :puke-right: ), I only know about him from FJ and I've never seen any of his books. If anyone has Her Hand in Marriage, I vote someone else recaps it, not you, @Destiny!

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Destiny

Posted

Just now, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

If anyone has Her Hand in Marriage, I vote someone else recaps it, not you, @Destiny!

I do NOT volunteer as tribute to do that one, ftr. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

Posted

1 minute ago, Destiny said:

I do NOT volunteer as tribute to do that one, ftr. 

Me either! :chicken: (I'm a big chicken.)

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
nickelodeon

Posted

Ugh, that last bit. Ohlman the creeper is really, really extreme in his views, but honestly the same twisted thinking pops up in even the more "vanilla" fundies' lives: see Tabitha Paine currently slated to become a fix-it wife for an actual literal rapist. Grim stuff.

  • Upvote 4
Link to comment
Destiny

Posted

7 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Ugh, that last bit. Ohlman the creeper is really, really extreme in his views, but honestly the same twisted thinking pops up in even the more "vanilla" fundies' lives: see Tabitha Paine currently slated to become a fix-it wife for an actual literal rapist. Grim stuff.

I agree that this permeates fundie culture. No question, they just usually aren't as overt about it. It's fucking gross. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
formergothardite

Posted

13 hours ago, Destiny said:

just usually aren't as overt about it. It's fucking gross.

Yeah, usually fundies don't come out and say it.  This makes it clear that women are just sex objects and baby incubators. A young wife is the remedy to a sexual predator. :my_sick:

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
CTRLZero

Posted

Quote

Courtship, as it was originally practiced, was where a variety of vain young men convinced other men’s wives to commit adultery with them.

Huh?  Do I have to read the book to find out more about this?  Call me skeptical...

I don't know anything about Douglas Wilson other than in his capacity as an enabler of pedophile(s) and lives across the eastern border from me, but in looking at his books, I noticed a couple instances of men/boys in their skimpies in the cover artwork.  Nothing horrible about that, except, you know, Douglas Wilson = pedophile enabler!

If his courtship book comes up for free on my Kindle subscription, I'll volunteer to recap it, but no way am I sending money to this nutjob.  I can't imagine how much wine this endeavor might take, lol!  Kudos to you, Destiny!

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Destiny

Posted

19 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Huh?  Do I have to read the book to find out more about this?  Call me skeptical...

Apparently. These are the footnotes for that paragraph:

xcviii Her Hand in Marriage, pg 53
xcix Her Hand in Marriage, pg 16

That said, I feel like this is something pulled quite badly out of context. Not sure why, cos Mr. Ohlman (who is a creeper) isn't pulling anything out of context for his support for this mess. At all. Not sure where I would have gotten such a silly idea.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Bethella

Posted

On 2/22/2017 at 11:02 AM, CTRLZero said:

Huh?  Do I have to read the book to find out more about this?  Call me skeptical...

I don't have a copy of Her Hand In Marriage, but I suspect he's referencing the medieval tradition of courtly love. First developed by the troubadours of Southern France and extensively employed in European literature of the time, it was a highly conventionalized tradition of love between a knight and a married noblewoman. The love of the knight for his lady was regarded as an ennobling passion, but these schmucks don't seem to realize the relationship was typically unconsummated.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Destiny

Posted

Hmm. I never even thought of the concept of courtly love, since they don't really relate to each other (to my knowledge) other than both containing court, but I think you could be on to something there. 

I contemplated getting a copy of the book from the library and ripping it apart too, but if i do it at all, it won't be for a while. My brain needs a break from purity culture.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Bethella

Posted

49 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Hmm. I never even thought of the concept of courtly love, since they don't really relate to each other (to my knowledge) other than both containing court, but I think you could be on to something there. 

I contemplated getting a copy of the book from the library and ripping it apart too, but if i do it at all, it won't be for a while. My brain needs a break from purity culture.

It's definitely taken out of context. I can kind of see connecting the two since they're both highly formalized (or ritualized?) practices to control the sexuality within the relationship. But the process, goals and desired outcomes of the two types of relationships are very, very different.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Posts

    • GreenBeans

      Posted

      2 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

      There is literally no reason to stop and reset during a cross country flight. It's just making the travel that much longer instead of going all at once.

      This! It’s not like the traveling itself would have taken days. They could have simply made their connection and would have been at the final destination a couple hours later. The way they organized it now probably means they had to get all their luggage, their cats and everything they brought hauled to whatever family they are visiting. And then in a couple of days they will have to pack up again, get to the airport, check their bags and cats again and go through security again. So they have two days of travel instead of one.

      It can make sense to split up a long journey into two days. We did that on the way back to Germany from our vacation in New Zealand. It’s two eleven hour flights back to back. We pulled through on the way there (which worked surprisingly well!), but on the way back the cheapest flight was a connection with an overnight stay at Seoul. So we did that. Arrived in the evening, took a taxi to a close and cheap-but-decent airport hotel, got a good night’s sleep and then got on the next 11 hour flight the next morning.

      But yeah, for two 3-4 hour flights? Makes no sense at all!

      • Upvote 2
    • KWLand

      Posted

      How old are Shalom and Justin’s kids?  I can’t imagine leaving my kids when their other parent is dying.  The poor daughter who was down with him.  It just doesn’t seem like they are thinking about the kids, especially if the kids are too young to understand.  I don’t image Mike and Debi being support for the kids emotionally during this.  I’m sure Shalom is torn and she was raised essentially being taught husband is above all.  Someone in those kids lives are hopefully there to hold them.

    • patsymae

      Posted

      On 7/11/2024 at 8:22 PM, Audrey2 said:

      I just think of a first grade class I subbed for this year with Aiden, Kayden, Grayden, and Zayden.

      was Braden absent?

      • Haha 1
    • Ozlsn

      Posted

      Ok, I am not going to say I haven't read the left leaning conspiracy theories about this shooting, even if I'm trying to hold off until we have more verified information.

      But I don't get where this "Biden sent the shooter" idiocy is coming from because seriously here? He has an actual job, with stuff to do etc. Now if you wanted me to believe Steve Bannon sent the shooter I would be more receptive, mostly because it's the kind of out there theory I can get behind.

    • Ozlsn

      Posted

      3 hours ago, Bassett Lady said:

      I don’t mind that they want to see people they love, but why the prevarication

      Doesn't fit in with the "we need a safe and stable home across the country " grifting theme. I don't think people would have donated as much if they knew there was a planned holiday in the middle, and I am wondering how many donors are now side-eyeing the hell out of them. Because that wasn't a small omission there, it was strongly implied that both flights were sequential and necessary to get to where they are planning to live.

      I swear if it turns out they've moved two suburbs away in Seattle... I will probably laugh. I doubt this is the case - why fly the cats? - but part of me is expecting to find out they've moved to Salem, Oregon, or Sacramento.

      • Upvote 2


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.