Mike seems to be OK, judging from Shoshanna's FB & IG posts. A number of NGJ articles have his byline which fits with what is shown on social media. Who knows what's really happening. IIRC, Mike & Debi didn't hesitate to seek fairly conventional medical care when they themselves needed it for his stroke or her back surgery a few years ago. Debi might write a bunch of shit about herbal cures in NGJ but I bet you won't catch her or Mike spending $50+ K on a Mexican health spa run by quacks.

31 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

she returned to her parent’s property after her divorce

She & James were living in that same house for some years before their divorce - the same one where she is now and where her "friend" Eric seems to be doing a shitload of home improvements for her. Maybe heʻs getting paid with Plexus swill.

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The thing is her parents are emotionally and physically abusive. And they write books teaching it.

All of this. Their abuse manual for infants & children - TTUAC - is designed to produce adults that will either inflict or accept abuse from others. Michael & Debi Pearl are monsters. 

Another vote for Chief's won't care. 

This was Benedictine College, a deeply trad Catholic college, and his remarks were apparently well received. I am sure there were some (many?) women in the audience annoyed and rightly offended since this was the celebration of the graduation of ALL students, female and male.

I read somewhere that he was at that Stronger Men conference in Springfield MO along with Sen Josh Hawley. The one where Mark Driscoll got the drama ball rolling.

So yeah. Butker is a shit stirrer.

My brother was diagnosed with Asbergers as a child and probably also ADD because they put him on ritalin.  He loved it because he could totally focus and do his work but he developed some sort of shoulder shrugging tic on it so they stopped it and never did anything else.  As a recently-turned 40yo he is still dealing with a lifetime of thinking he was stupid and incompetent because he couldn't learn or work in a traditional way.  He is a TREASURE of a human being whose life has been made immeasurably more difficult because no one really followed up or took his issues seriously.  I don't know if he'll ever seek help for it as an adult but I wish he would - he still thinks it's possible everyone else in the world knows how other people work and nobody will just tell him.

16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The thing is her parents are emotionally and physically abusive. And they write books teaching it. So who knows what she considers abuse. When you grow up surrounded in normalized abuse, how can you see abuse for what it is?

There is complexity here in that she is deeply self-centered and probably unable to recognize abusive behavior in herself and in others, both.

I may have the story wrong, but it sounds like she returned to her parent’s property after her divorce which is…bizarre. Her enmeshment with her oldest son is also bizarre. 

And now this rewriting of history that crosses over from bizarre to totally enraging.

It’s a mix of poor boundaries and a diva complex that IMO makes it impossible to believe what she says. (And I say that recognizing there could have been abuse. There could also be a husband tired of the crazy and pushing back for the sake of the children and that might have felt abusive to her. Or some mix of both.)

30 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

That's what makes this worse than if she were trying to actually soften their earlier teachings. She's not. She's outright claiming now, in 2024, men are beating their wives and those abused wives aren't who their books were written for. Those abused wives - THOSE DEAD CHILDREN - are literally who they wrote their books for! 

How many women did they privately shame into staying with their abuser? How many women over the DECADES did they tell to "just try harder," and "open your legs more often," and "if you were as submissive to him as you're telling us you are he wouldn't have beat you. You need to stop lying to yourself and to him and god will bless your marriage"?

HOW. MANY. WOMEN?

How many women did you, Debi, counsel to accept being raped as a normal part of marriage? 
 

And how many more abused children that never died and so we never heard your book was found in their parents bedrooms? HOW DARE YOU LIE AND MAKE YOURSELF SEEM INNOCENT!

I want to add that most of the dead children were adopted. They were kids already traumatized. I share your rage.

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This makes me much more angry than just ignoring the usual criticism. They are gaslighting, denying, and pretending like they had no idea there were men who beat the shit out of their wives when writing their heinous books. 
 

Debi, “what?!? You mean there are men who beat women? I’ve never heard of such a thing!” 
 

Fuck off.

That's what makes this worse than if she were trying to actually soften their earlier teachings. She's not. She's outright claiming now, in 2024, men are beating their wives and those abused wives aren't who their books were written for. Those abused wives - THOSE DEAD CHILDREN - are literally who they wrote their books for! 

How many women did they privately shame into staying with their abuser? How many women over the DECADES did they tell to "just try harder," and "open your legs more often," and "if you were as submissive to him as you're telling us you are he wouldn't have beat you. You need to stop lying to yourself and to him and god will bless your marriage"?

HOW. MANY. WOMEN?

How many women did you, Debi, counsel to accept being raped as a normal part of marriage? 
 

And how many more abused children that never died and so we never heard your book was found in their parents bedrooms? HOW DARE YOU LIE AND MAKE YOURSELF SEEM INNOCENT!