19 hours ago, Eponine said:
I agree that from my perspective it seems like fundie culture is changing, and has changed a lot in the last decade or so. And as many have pointed out, I think it's mainly to present it in a prettier, more relatable package to have a wider appeal.
If you define "Fundie" as narrowly as "converts of Biblical Christianity Patriarchs like Gothard and Phillips," yes. Some of it is dressing to appear more mainstream, and some of it is growing out of fashion fads within their social circles. Frumpers changing to modern modest and pants doesn't change core beliefs. It does have a wider appeal though and may help to attract converts.
Some of the more important social and cultural fads and fashions are changing too. As the second generation grew up they found that the courtship model didn't work out as planned. Daddy picking spouses wasn't a good method of finding a happy marriage nor of avoiding domestic abuse and divorce. And being a virgin uneducated SAHD still waiting for Daddy to approve Prince Charming in your 30s really can't be much fun. Also they probably noticed that QF really isn't all it was cracked up to be. A lot of the second generation grew up living in poverty with their multiple siblings. The Duggars and Bateses with their TV shows and carefully curated social media accounts are not representative of most Gothard and VF followers.
The public Falls from Grace and ugly scandals with Gothard and Phillips probably shook many of their followers up. But I've lost count of all the "charismatic" Christian church leaders who have gone down in flames during my lifetime and it didn't change the views of their followers.Quote
It makes me wonder, though, whether there will soon be another backlash that will make some fundie groups dive back into the isolationism that characterized them in the 1990s-early 2000s. At that time, it was a point of pride for many fundies that they stood out from the rest of society - that they were visibly and defiantly different in ways that many no longer are. We often see that many fundies get a self-righteous pleasure in obviously not "belonging" to modern society. That kind of clear difference also feeds their persecution complex.
And there are still plenty of nests of extreme Christian Fundamentalists who still think it is a point of pride to live separately. Gothardites and VF types are just the tip of the iceberg. There are lots of other extremists who don't have sparkly social media accounts. And some very scary ones who are off grid.Quote
I could see this gradual trend of assimilating into the larger culture pushing some subsets farther away, and I wonder if there is going to be an ongoing cycle of isolationism-assimilation-isolationism, etc.
I don't really have any backup for that, but I'm not convinced this is a permanent shift in culture.
Yes. History is cyclical. The USA, thanks to Freedom of Religion, has always had people starting their own cults, sects, and religions. Think Joseph Smith (Jesus Christ was invited to join the Mormons quite late) and L. Ron Hubbard.
And the US has had a series of big evangelistic Christian "Revivals." Historically they are known as the Great Awakenings, and there is a somewhat controversial theory that the Fourth Great Awakening took place in the 1960s and 1970s. The extremely legalistic Biblical Patriarchal movement grew out of that. IMO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Great_Awakening
The cycle may be speeding up thanks to information being spread so quickly in the 21st century. There's no need to go door to door when you can convert people on youtube!
2 hours ago, Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues said:
Actually the main problem I have when travelling is that when I say I'm vegetarian I will often be given tomato based dishes - when I have a tomato allergy!!!
Me too!! I've actually never met another person with a tomato allergy, so hi!!
I'm mostly vegetarian just by preference, but a real reason I don't think I could go full veggie is because SO many veggie options are tomato-based. I have a couple of related allergies that make it a pain to try to get viable vegetarian foods in public settings, so while I mostly cook meat-free at home when I'm out I tend to eat meat dishes a lot more.
I came across some teen magazines from the early 70s, during the Osmonds’ heyday, and in the “letters to the editor” page, someone noted that the mag had published a photo of one of the Osmonds drinking an orange soda, and “I thought they couldn’t have that?” It was explained that since orange soda isn’t caffeinated, it’s allowed.(I also remember reading that some of their fans tried to live the Mormon lifestyle of no alcohol/caffeine, usually unsuccessfully.)
On 12/4/2019 at 2:52 AM, AliceInFundyland said:
Yeah. The more I learn about the "usefulness" of castor oil. I think that I too would thoroughly opt for an enema.
The idea of inducing gastric upset with the impending baby sounds hideous.
Is there any particular reason that enemas have fallen out of favor? (other than it is something being stuck up your butt)
Here in Belgium they still routinely offer enemas. I decided to go for one. I know it's normal to defecate when giving birth, but I get easily embarrassed and thought it would help me be less inhibited when pushing.
The thing is... when labour starts, it's not uncommon that it all comes out already anyway. Sorry if it's too much information, but the cramps I experience on the first days of my period often cause diarrhea. The same thing happened when I went into labour, and I have since then heard that my experience is not unusual.
Once I got to the hospital, I didn't think I really needed an enema anymore, but as mentioned above, figured I should anyway just for my own peace of mind. It didn't have any effect at all since my bowels were already empty, and once it came to pushing I was so preoccupied with the pain and the effort that I wouldn't have noticed if I had produced a turd the size of Joshley.