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Problem In Society Today


crazydaffodil

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Back on my soap box today...

Recently, a friend of mine was out dancing with some of her friends at a night club.  A young male placed his hands on my friend's butt while she was dancing.  She turned and told him "No!" and continued to dance.  The same male did the same thing to one of her friends.  When she too told him "No!," he put his hands in front of her and attempted to touch her crotch.  This woman grabbed his hand, twisted his arm and asked him to leave them all alone.

This story is bad enough at this point because this individual (I first called him a rude name, then deleted it because there is no room for name calling here either) obviously has not regard for other people's feelings and basic human decency.  You DON'T just go around touching people like that, period.  Why would anyone think that this is ok?  I believe it is because he has grown up in a society that glorifies such crude behavior.  Guys do things like this, it gets publicity, and other guys think they want to do that too.  Their buddies egg them on and do nothing to discourage this behavior.  Obviously, parental and scholastic teachings did nothing to make these individuals understand right from wrong.  Society has an obligation to make it be known that this behavior is wrong and it cannot, and will not be tolerated! 

That is why I am writing about this today.  I am so angered that this kind of behavior happens in our world today.  And it isn't unusual.  We hear stories like this far too often.  When is enough going to be enough?  We have to take a stand and put a stop to this.  If we continue to ignore it and shrug it off as just another incident, it will never stop! 

But wait, this true story gets worse.  When this individual was told to stop, not once, but twice, he taunted the second woman and did not move.  Another man attempted to get between them.  There was hope that someone was going to do the right thing here and instruct the first guy that his behavior was wrong.  But no, the second man tells the women that this behavior was THEIR FAULT because of the way they were dancing!!!!  Are you f-ing kidding me????!!!!!

I am embarrassed by this human behavior and outraged that women have to deal with this kind of bullshit.  Men are going to watch and have their thoughts, that cannot be controlled.  That in no way entitles them to act in a manner that is insulting to other human beings and with an idea of entitlement to do whatever they feel like doing.  These two men should have been escorted out of the club at a minimum.  Criminal charges could have been pressed against the first one, but it would become a long, drawn out "He said, she said" affair and no real punishment would likely come of it.  So if that isn't going to put a stop to this kind of behavior, what will?

I believe, and feel free to tell me if you think I am wrong, but I believe that it is incumbent on those of us in today's society who believe this is wrong, to teach our kids the value of right and wrong, the value of personal feelings and that their should be consequences for actions that go beyond what is acceptable.

I'm sure I could go on and on about this, but I will spare you.  I just ask that if you are as enraged as I am (and you may not be because it didn't happen to YOUR friend), to please take some time to think about what you can do to keep this from happening again... and again... and again.

*Stepping down from my soap box now*

Just sayin...

 

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HerNameIsBuffy

Posted

Amen.  As a mother of boys and a girl I started talking about consent, and how it's not just about the major sex acts - but respecting autonomy, from the time they were little.

Not with words or referencing sex when they were toddlers...but in teaching them about their own autonomy and not forcing them to show physical affection if they didn't want to.  Of course dear old Aunt Sally meant them no harm when she wanted a kiss hello...but if I had no idea how to require them to do that to "be nice and not hurt her feelings" but expect them to know when it's not okay if an adult wants physical contact with which they aren't comfortable.

Except hand shaking.  Certain circumstances require handshakes so thought that was a nice compromise for the snuggly old relatives who mean no harm...and you've never silently laughed until you've seen the face of an 80+ year old woman asking for a kiss being told by a preschooler that kissing makes him uncomfortable, but hello...as he stuck out his little hand for a shake.   

Just seemed cleaner to teach them their bodies are their own and while we owe people courtesy we owe no one physical affection nor does anyone owe it to us.  

This needed to get more nuanced when one was about 8 and decided that his bodily autonomy meant whether or not he bathed ever was his decision and I did thwart his plan to go all summer without a bath to "see how dirty I can get."

But consent was huge in our talks at age appropriate levels.  We owe it to our kids and we owe it to society to teach them boundaries and to keep their hands to themselves without an invitation.

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crazydaffodil

Posted

Handshaking is a great example.  One has to offer their hand and the other has to accept it before even the most casual level of contact is acceptable.

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laPapessaGiovanna

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Not with words or referencing sex when they were toddlers...but in teaching them about their own autonomy and not forcing them to show physical affection if they didn't want to.  Of course dear old Aunt Sally meant them no harm when she wanted a kiss hello...but if I had no idea how to require them to do that to "be nice and not hurt her feelings" but expect them to know when it's not okay if an adult wants physical contact with which they aren't comfortable.

Except hand shaking.  Certain circumstances require handshakes so thought that was a nice compromise for the snuggly old relatives who mean no harm...and you've never silently laughed until you've seen the face of an 80+ year old woman asking for a kiss being told by a preschooler that kissing makes him uncomfortable, but hello...as he stuck out his little hand for a shake.   

I completely agree with you on the need to explain body ownership and autonomy in an age appropriate way.

I have always tried to respect my daughter's wishes and desires in showing her my affection and also in teaching her how to deal with others. She's not shy at all, it's more likely that I need to restrain her from pestering people excessively than not. But sometimes she just can't stand someone, mainly bearded men and my uncles, and I respect it (and my uncles must suck it up, especially considering how much they pissed me off when I was a child). This said your example made me think because I am also teaching her that a kiss on the cheek is normal and pretty much expected in most cases (excluding the exceptions above) because in our culture it is normal to shake hands and kiss on the cheek a stranger you are being introduced to. The kisses become three when you know the person well or even superficially. Hugs and other forms of physical contact are regarded as no big deal. For example when I was in high school (ETA and at Uni too) it was very common to sit on each other's lap (male or female it didn't matter) when there weren't enough benches/seats on the bus/bar/park/wherever (still remember the faces of the Swedes here for a cultural exchange when they were told that those they thought were couples weren't couples at all, priceless :pb_lol:). Even now I wouldn't mind to sit on my colleagues' (and they wouldn't mind too) lap if need be (but I would never ever sit on one of our wards lap it would be just wrong, also because they are often people who are still learning about healthy boundaries). Most physical contact is quite normal and it's regarded as completely different in nature from unwanted sexual contact. Not all body parts are equal and not every type of contact is the same. However if a person is reluctant and dodging all contact that must be respected too.

With this I mean that social norms and expectations re physical contact can differ between cultures but unwanted sexual contact is recognisably the same and always unacceptable. 

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna
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  • Posts

    • Red Hair, Black Dress

      Posted (edited)

      I think she unenthusiastically said yes to the first man Scotty Brown (not/never father of the year) convinced/ coerced to take her and the 6 step kids.

      Hope she is happy, but intuition tells me no, and that she believes the unhappiness is normal married life.

      Really really really hope she wasn't "convicted" to have more children.

      Edited by Red Hair, Black Dress
    • JermajestyDuggar

      Posted

      20 hours ago, zimona said:

      Childless semi-old catlady here. I don't hate kids. I hate parents who don't bother to teach their kids (age apropriate, of course) about boundaries. I'm quite happy to let kids be kids. But if they start to actively pester me and intrude on me (like trying to drink from MY lemonade in a Café, or wiping their chocolate covered fingers on my backpack during train rides...) then I will speak up and tell them to stop, and I'm fully aware that to the innocent bystander I might come across as 'hating' kids, especially since I might be a bit worked up at that point. I'm not blaming the kids, they don't know better. I'm blaming those parents who shy away from putting a brake on their kids' (sometimes) too exuberant behaviour. 

      What’s funny is I often say this about dogs! 🤣🤣🤣 Every time I find myself hating a dog, I realize I just hate how horrible the owner is. It’s always someone who lets their dog get away with the most horrific behavior at the expense of other people. 

      • Upvote 4
      • I Agree 1
    • 4boysmum

      Posted

      I have a bunch of kids and as much as I love them they also drive me nuts.  They can be loud and messy.  The younger ones are still figuring out where their personal space ends and other people's (mostly mine!) begins.  But I can't ever imagine them doing something like drinking someone else's lemonade.  And if they ever took leave of their senses long enough to try, I would deal with it ASAP and also buy you another lemonade.

      My kids are my responsibility and if they act up in public it's my job to correct them or take them somewhere else so they aren't disturbing others.  

      But I have also occasionally come across people who do seem to resent children being present in public at all.  Don't think they should be brought to restaurants, etc.  I couldn't say what percentage of the childfree population feels that way, but people like that do exist.  And I think it's a shame because (a) how do you teach kids to behave in places like restaurants if you don't take them to practice, and (b) if I've put in the work to teach my kids how to behave in various places and they are not being disruptive, they really do have just as much right to be there as any other segment of the population.

      • Upvote 1
      • I Agree 2
    • CarrotCake

      Posted

      It makes me wonder: would these modesty-fundies be okay with swimwear on girls-only trips?

      In this case it is filmed and published so the same standards as public places would apply but what if it was a private moment between friends and family?

      For instance, Muslim women do not dress with the same modesty standards in the private of their household.

      • Upvote 1
    • EmiSue

      Posted

      3 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

      There is also a toy rabbit with a pink ribbon in the picture.

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      My guess is to honor Isla, since she'd be a few months old now if she made it, but could be both.

      • Upvote 1


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