Jill Duggar is Now a Lay Midwife

[Esther]

I applaud her for this. Yeah, I wish she'd go to a real college, but as opposed to, say, the Botkinettes, she's actually doing something productive here. She comes from a culture where she's encouraged to stay home and raise her siblings until a husband magically falls from the sky, yet she is pursuing one of the only options she has to actually do something beyond that and work outside the home.

I, too, think she looks really good and happy in scrubs - and who knows, perhaps this will help her gain a modicum of self-confidence and independence.

[apple1]

(I know some won't agree, but...)

Disaster in the making. FWIW I am completely in support of certified (highly educated) nurse midwives and totally opposed to "lay" midwifery.

Too many years as a healthcare professional; I have seen too much.

Also FWIW, I think she is intelligent enough to become a certified nurse midwife, but it would take some major filling in of huge gaps in her education first.

[SoSoNosy]

When an expectant mother first feels the baby's movement, don't a lot of people say it "feels like a butterfly"? Maybe that's what she meant?

[gilora]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does it mean to be a lay midwife? Do you get paid? Are you certified? Can you establish a practice or open a birthing center?

Also, while I'm glad Jill is doing something productive, this will only last until she is married. A good helpmeet cannot be gallivanting around delivering babies of unrelated non-fundies. So depressing.

[Eclipse]

I think it's just sad that people assume that these girls are so ill educated that they could never catch up and be successful in college if they ever chose to leave. None of the Duggar kids strike me as so profoundly stupid that they couldn't learn if given a real shot at a good education. Even Josh could have made something more of himself if he hadn't been so heavily indoctrinated into his parents whackadoodle overly legalistic version of Christianity. My hope is that some of the kids can get away and that the glimpses of a different lifestyle that they've seen through TLC will plant some seeds of rebellion in those kids, and honestly I wouldn't even call it rebellion more like self preservation and an independant spirit.

I would love to see this open doors for Jill to go on and get a real education. Wouldn't it be awesome to see her get out and reach her full potential and become an OB/GYN instead of just a lay midwife.

Its not that we think they are stupid, its that they lack the skills they need to be successful at college. College requires you to think critically and be able to analyze information, skills most children begin learning in elementary school. However, the Duggar's SOTDRT doesn't provide these skills as its more concerned with indoctrination and passes memorization off as education. I hope if any of the girls go to college they will succeed. They can learn critical thinking skills but they may not learn it at college before they flunk out. College expects you to have critical thinking skills before you enter and then helps you develop them further, not develop them in the first place.

[Guest Anonymous]

Its not that we think they are stupid, its that they lack the skills they need to be successful at college. College requires you to think critically and be able to analyze information, skills most children begin learning in elementary school. However, the Duggar's SOTDRT doesn't provide these skills as its more concerned with indoctrination and passes memorization off as education. I hope if any of the girls go to college they will succeed. They can learn critical thinking skills but they may not learn it at college before they flunk out. College expects you to have critical thinking skills before you enter and then helps you develop them further, not develop them in the first place.

As someone who has worked in higher education, I don't think the Duggars would be impossibly challenged by a college education if they escaped the family compound. Maybe 20-30 years ago, when a college education was still for an elite group, but not now. These days, almost anyone can get in somewhere, and there is help available for people who have gaps to fill, even very significant gaps. It's all about how you apply yourself, and the thing those girls do have going for themselves is that they have had a good grounding in knuckling down, working in a disciplined way, meeting deadlines, getting on with life without a mobile phone glued to their ear, etc, etc. If they were up for the challenge, and willing to get over themselves, I think they would probably fit in well in a college with a high proportion of international students, where their 'culture shock' would not be terribly dissimilar to the shock of people visiting from overseas and which could be helped with good guidance and orientation from the student support people.

[slickcat79]

(I know some won't agree, but...)

Disaster in the making. FWIW I am completely in support of certified (highly educated) nurse midwives and totally opposed to "lay" midwifery.

Too many years as a healthcare professional; I have seen too much.

Also FWIW, I think she is intelligent enough to become a certified nurse midwife, but it would take some major filling in of huge gaps in her education first.

I agree on both points. It is good FOR JILL that she go out and do something more than what her family expects of her, but I think using the midwife title to refer to lay midwives is almost disrespectful to the amount of work it takes to become a real CNM. Of course it's not about her specifically, it has a lot to do with what the state requires and allows, but I don't think there's enough distinction between the two groups, especially in the fundie world.

I hope it does motivate Jill to go for some higher credentials, but it won't be easy for someone with her educational background and her family's ideas about modesty. Lots of people find college too difficult an adjustment to make, even when they have more mainstream experiences and family support than Jill has.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

As someone who has worked in higher education, I don't think the Duggars would be impossibly challenged by a college education if they escaped the family compound. Maybe 20-30 years ago, when a college education was still for an elite group, but not now. These days, almost anyone can get in somewhere, and there is help available for people who have gaps to fill, even very significant gaps. It's all about how you apply yourself, and the thing those girls do have going for themselves is that they have had a good grounding in knuckling down, working in a disciplined way, meeting deadlines, getting on with life without a mobile phone glued to their ear, etc, etc. If they were up for the challenge, and willing to get over themselves, I think they would probably fit in well in a college with a high proportion of international students, where their 'culture shock' would not be terribly dissimilar to the shock of people visiting from overseas and which could be helped with good guidance and orientation from the student support people.

I agree - I had a really hard time in high school and dropped out twice before pretty much flunking out (due to the social atmosphere not academics). I got my GED at 17 and went straight to Community College where I got all B's my first semester and mostly A's thereafter, then transferred to a 4 year school and got my bachelor's. Community Colleges have lots of remedial classes, tutors, and other help for people to fill in their gaps.

If one of the Duggar kids wanted an education I think a Comm. College would be a great place to start. The only hangup I see is the multicultural nature of colleges, from people of different creeds and colors, people with different political affiliations (liburals!!!), to heaven forbid the kid with green hair. I think cultural differences would be harder for the Duggars to get past then their academic gaps.

Edited cuz I'm a dumbass

[lilwriter85]

I agree on both points. It is good FOR JILL that she go out and do something more than what her family expects of her, but I think using the midwife title to refer to lay midwives is almost disrespectful to the amount of work it takes to become a real CNM. Of course it's not about her specifically, it has a lot to do with what the state requires and allows, but I don't think there's enough distinction between the two groups, especially in the fundie world.

I hope it does motivate Jill to go for some higher credentials, but it won't be easy for someone with her educational background and her family's ideas about modesty. Lots of people find college too difficult an adjustment to make, even when they have more mainstream experiences and family support than Jill has.

I also agree with apple1's post. I do think it is good that Jill is out doing something away from her family. She does seem very happy in those pictures with the babies. i also agree with you on the midwife title. My prediction is that Jill will mostly work with fundie families.

[Little_Eyes]

I am happy for Jill. When I look at her face, I see joy in her eyes, and not the kind that comes from Photoshop. Every step is a step in the right direction, and I hope that this opens up her world. I agree, though, that she will likely limit her practice to fundies and evangelicals.

[snickerz]

I'm glad Jill accomplished this much, but I agree that it's as far as they'll ever let her go. They would NEVER allow her to go to college. I do wonder how she'll take it when a baby dies (it's inevitable that it will happen eventually.) Will she think it's her fault? Blame the mother for some sin? Are they selective with the mothers they "accept?" Would she work with a mother who swears like a sailor and doesn't know who the baby daddy is? I doubt it.

I noticed that she's NOT wearing a purity ring or whatever they're called.

[GeoBQn]

She probably took off the purity ring so it wouldn't get in the way while assisting and washing her hands repeatedly.

[PennySycamore]

Well I'm glad she gets to have some sort of a career type of thing before she is married off...although I really wish she could become a Registered Nurse instead because I think she would make a good nurse, but then of course becoming a nurse would involve college, so..

Did she assist in any of Michelle's childbirths? Maybe this is no big deal but to me it seemed somewhat creepy to have to help in your moms childbirth..maybe I'm being silly, but I wouldn't want to do that, personally. I mean helping out with things during pregnancy- checking heart rate, figuring out nutrition planning, etc is one thing...but poor Jill shouldn't have to look up her mom's overly-used privates. I wouldn't want to do that.

Hopefully, she did not. It's very difficult to properly help family members. She would not have had the necessary emotional distance from her mom (even JChelle!) to make good the best decisions in JChelle's care.

[pixydust]

I'm happy for any step these kids make towards being independent. Jill looks happy, so good for Jill! I do hope that she will go to college (nothing wrong with starting with a community college to fill the gaps and get into the swing of things) and become a CNM.

[lilwriter85]

I'm glad Jill accomplished this much, but I agree that it's as far as they'll ever let her go. They would NEVER allow her to go to college. I do wonder how she'll take it when a baby dies (it's inevitable that it will happen eventually.) Will she think it's her fault? Blame the mother for some sin? Are they selective with the mothers they "accept?" Would she work with a mother who swears like a sailor and doesn't know who the baby daddy is? I doubt it.

I noticed that she's NOT wearing a purity ring or whatever they're called.

Jill's supervisor Venessa seems to be on the fundie lite scale and I bet she is selective of how she works with. I agree, I doubt Jill would work with a cussing mother, single moms, or a lesbian couple. Some people who choose homebirths are also selective of the midwives they want to involve. I know an atheist type hippy couple that has had two homebirths and they are now expecting their third child. I doubt this couple who work a fundie like Jill. They also would go with a CNM.

[lilwriter85]

I'm happy for any step these kids make towards being independent. Jill looks happy, so good for Jill! I do hope that she will go to college (nothing wrong with starting with a community college to fill the gaps and get into the swing of things) and become a CNM.[/quote]

I do hope something like that would happen, but I can only see it happening if Jill leaves the family.

[bananacat]

I can't be happy for her like everyone else is. She's still stifled. As soon as she gets married, it will be the end of everything. The only reason she's even allowed to do this is for publicity so the Duggars can claim one "success" from the SOTDRT. And we all know that Jill will use her position to proselytize, if she's even willing in the first place to work with non-fundies.

[Jezebel Duggar]

I didn't paste that here because of the phone number. But...now that it's here, somebody PLEASE call it.

I see the admin's now redacted the phone number, but I just HAD to call it. It's disconnected. :( Venessa's isn't.

[madpsych78]

When I see Jill in her scrubs, I can't help but wonder if she tried to convert the bottom into a skirt.

[Jezebel Duggar]

When I see Jill in her scrubs, I can't help but wonder if she tried to convert the bottom into a skirt.

I hadn't thought about that. Remember the fire house parade/dress uniforms?

[countressrascal]

When I see Jill in her scrubs, I can't help but wonder if she tried to convert the bottom into a skirt.

They make scrubs skirt-I have a number of women that work for me who wear them.

Also she will not become a midwife until she passes her test, which is not a walk in the park. I hope she does and move on to something bigger and better. You go for it girl.

[Buzzard]

They make scrubs skirt-I have a number of women that work for me who wear them.

Also she will not become a midwife until she passes her test, which is not a walk in the park. I hope she does and move on to something bigger and better. You go for it girl.

Do the women wear leggings or something beneath them? I always thought of scrubs as something that was easily washable/disposable and kept you from getting blood/fluids on your skin. A skirt wouldnt really protect you unless it was ankle length...

[lilwriter85]

Do the women wear leggings or something beneath them? I always thought of scrubs as something that was easily washable/disposable and kept you from getting blood/fluids on your skin. A skirt wouldnt really protect you unless it was ankle length...

My guess is that they something underneath the scrub skirts. Knowing how Mullet is she would probably demand that her snowflake Jill wear something underneath a scrub skirt.

[countressrascal]

Do the women wear leggings or something beneath them? I always thought of scrubs as something that was easily washable/disposable and kept you from getting blood/fluids on your skin. A skirt wouldnt really protect you unless it was ankle length...

They are ankle length and majority of the women wear either kneesocks or leggings, it depends on the season. They have a choice of either normal scrubs or fundie scrubs (clinic nickname) everyone has to wear closed toes shoes with foot coverings. Shoes are the biggest issue with the fundies, they are not use to wearing real shoes, ie flip flops.

[sassycupcake]

I don't really understand when (if) Jill transitions from a "Lay Midwife Apprentice" to an actual Lay Midwife. Maybe the laws in Arkansas are different, but in the states I have lived in, a CPM is a certified direct-entry midwife and a Lay Midwife is just someone with training, but no certification or legal recognition. Is Jill on track to become a CPM?