Melanie Maxwell gave birth

[FloraDoraDolly]

Quick clarification: Does Melanie have three or four girls? I've heard people mention four girls, but only two older sisters are listed?

They have three girls who are alive. Before Abby was born, Melanie and Nathan had a baby girl named Susanna Joy who died shortly after birth.

[holothuroidea]

:/

I think it is detrimental because it is false. If the baby didn't fit, it's not because mom was too small or baby was too big. I don't like to see misinformation perpetuated, and I'm especially sensitive to women's health issues. It obviously doesn't affect Melanie after the fact, but what good does it do for a petite nullip/primip to hear things like this and worry needlessly that she might not be able to give birth just because she is petite? It plants a seed of inferiority based on her being "too small" when it is not true.

And I guess lot of people are getting an anti-c-section vibe from me here, and it's not about c-sections or medicalized births at all. It's about misinformation regarding women's bodies.

[treemom]

:/

I think it is detrimental because it is false. If the baby didn't fit, it's not because mom was too small or baby was too big. I don't like to see misinformation perpetuated, and I'm especially sensitive to women's health issues. It obviously doesn't affect Melanie after the fact, but what good does it do for a petite nullip/primip to hear things like this and worry needlessly that she might not be able to give birth just because she is petite? It plants a seed of inferiority based on her being "too small" when it is not true.

And I guess lot of people are getting an anti-c-section vibe from me here, and it's not about c-sections or medicalized births at all. It's about misinformation regarding women's bodies.

I think it is more likely that every time you mention this you make women who had a c- section because a size disparity feel like you don't believe their reasons and are disputing why they had a c-section.

So, at the best your chiming in on this every single time to point out that it is incredibly rare (even though it isn't) and not due to size (even though that is the number 1 risk factor in developing nations, so there is merit that it is a risk factor in the us as well) just makes women feel like shit in another way.

And maybe it is just me, but isn't a c-section still giving birth? Is there a reason you excluded it?

[meda]

But why is it false? Do you know for certain that Melanie did not have a Csection because of the size of the baby? You are making as much of an assumption about her c section than anyone else. And you might get a less defensive reaction from people if you would stop making blanket declarative statements about breast feeding and childbirth. You were able to have two relatively easy births and could nurse. That is fantastic, not everyone can. It is in fact possible that women who make different decisions than you about childbirth and parenting are not uneducated or misinformed about those subjects.

[valsa]

I think it is more likely that every time you mention this you make women who had a c- section because a size disparity feel like you don't believe their reasons and are disputing why they had a c-section.

So, at the best your chiming in on this every single time to point out that it is incredibly rare (even though it isn't) and not due to size (even though that is the number 1 risk factor in developing nations, so there is merit that it is a risk factor in the us as well) just makes women feel like shit in another way.

And maybe it is just me, but isn't a c-section still giving birth? Is there a reason you excluded it?

Exactly what I was thinking.

If the baby didn't fit, it's not because mom was too small or baby was too big.

Isn't "one is too big or the other is too small" kinda the definition of "doesn't fit"? If I'm moving furniture and say "this couch doesn't fit through this door", that either means the couch is too big or the door is too small.

[DowagerDuchess]

I think Melanie would have to be jealous of Anna Marie. Anna Marie just fits perfectly into the mold the Maxwells have for women. Long dresses always, long hair done up in a matronly style, seemingly meek and mild -- then she goes off and has a perfectly normal pregnancy and gives birth to a perfect boy! And afterward she is "radiant", not just ok.

Melanie does things a little different. I've seen several pictures where all the other women are wearing frumpers but she is just wearing a skirt and shirt. Her hair is shorter and she gives her daughters non biblical names. She seems mildly rebellious at times...

From what I know of her I don't think I would get along with Anna Marie if I were in that family.

Nathan picked all the names--literally opened his Bible to read and whatever female name he happened upon first was the name. The girls have Biblical names, just not the more common ones.

[thoughtful]

Well this commenter must not know much about the Maxwells -- she used the F word!

absolutely precious. Enjoy these moments that are over too soon! Love the “get acquainted with lil sis†picture! Just think of all the fun they’ll have growing up together.

:naughty:

[holothuroidea]

CPD is rare among American women, and it is not possible to predict CPD by looking at a woman and calling her "petite." CPD happens in women who are large, with babies who are small, when both are average. You can't tell by looking, and it's false to insinuate that you can.

I never said that c-sections weren't births, because that would be dumb. I said "c-sections or medicalized births," and clearly to me that means that not all medicalized births are c-sections. If I said "squares or rectangles" nobody would accuse me of excluding squares from also being rectangles.

I have no idea why any woman would feel like I don't believe that she had a rare complication just because it doesn't happen often. That doesn't make any sense.

[valsa]

I never said that c-sections weren't births, because that would be dumb.

Yes you did, and yes it is.

It obviously doesn't affect Melanie after the fact, but what good does it do for a petite nullip/primip to hear things like this and worry needlessly that she might not be able to give birth just because she is petite.

ETA:

CPD is rare among American women, and it is not possible to predict CPD by looking at a woman and calling her "petite." CPD happens in women who are large, with babies who are small, when both are average. You can't tell by looking, and it's false to insinuate that you can.

I never said you can predict CPD by looking at a woman. Nor did I say the women has to be petite or that the baby has to be big. However, none of that changes the fact that CPD happens when either a woman is too small for her baby or the baby is too big for its' mother. It's qualitative, not quantitative.

[holothuroidea]

Valsa, apparently I haz teh dumb. :lol:

I haven't seen any relevant evidence to change my opinion. Nobody has bothered defending to me why it is okay to speculate on a woman's reproductive health just by looking at her height/bone structure.

[valsa]

Nobody has bothered defending to me why it is okay to speculate on a woman's reproductive health just by looking at her height/bone structure.

You do realize where you are, right?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

If we were talking about this BEFORE the baby was born, there would be reason to say "don't assume Melanie can't vaginal birth just because she is petite."

But we're NOT. The thread title has "GAVE" in it. The event happened, it was a C-section. She had a long laboring and ended up needing a C-section. At which point "oh maybe the baby was too big" is not such a crazy assumption is it?

In probability talk, mathematical or otherwise, the time the talk about the event happens is extremely relevant.

[VintageJen1984]

You do realize where you are, right?

Yes, and this whole thing started when someone on here (not hopping back several pages to figure out who) speculated that it might be because Melanie is a slight woman and the baby was 9 pounds. So obviously being here doesn't guarantee a person won't do that.

[holothuroidea]

Gardenvarietycitizen, the reason it triggered me is not because of the timing of the speculation but that it happens at all. It does bother me. It feels like an attack on women from where I'm sitting, because it's just another reason to not feel good enough for no good reason. I've had problems expressing this before in other threads when I ran into the same feelings (with the same horrible result of saying things that make other women feel not good enough for no good reason :?).

Really, though, I think the problem here is that I had to get all offended and preachy about it and shove my botheredness all up in people's snark thread. Bad move, and I should have learned my lesson by now. I wish I was better at expressing myself with these issues, because I feel very strongly and I do believe I have a valid point somewhere under all the BS. Ahem, :violin:

[valsa]

Yes, and this whole thing started when someone on here (not hopping back several pages to figure out who) speculated that it might be because Melanie is a slight woman and the baby was 9 pounds. So obviously being here doesn't guarantee a person won't do that.

Wow, my point kinda zoomed right over your head, didn't it?

No one has to defend a goddamn thing they do here, so long as it doesn't break the rules. And given that we routinely speculate about fundie sexuality, mental health, financial status, potential sociopathy, etc- pondering why someone might have needed an emergency C-section is not even a blip on the radar.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I hope Melanie recovers well from the C-section. Sarah using "okay" is weird.

Yeah, but everything they do is weird.

[VintageJen1984]

Wow, my point kinda zoomed right over your head, didn't it?

No one has to defend a goddamn thing they do here, so long as it doesn't break the rules. And given that we routinely speculate about fundie sexuality, mental health, financial status, potential sociopathy, etc- pondering why someone might have needed an emergency C-section is not even a blip on the radar.

Sorry, I actually did think you meant something very different.

[holothuroidea]

New pictures up.

OK WTF is going on with Melanie? All pictures of the baby (also a sibling), no mom or dad anywhere. When Joshua was born they took pictures with Christopher and Anna right away.

I don't know to be worried about whether Melanie is "okay" or wonder if they're shunning her because she had another girl. :(

[skankbiscuit]

Well if she was pushing for a long time, she may have broken veins in her face. She probably doesn't want to look less than the picture perfect Anna Marie after birth.

I actually respect her if she is saying "no" to the damn camera if she isn't feeling up to that shit, no matter what the reason.

[anniebgood]

CPD is rare among American women, and it is not possible to predict CPD by looking at a woman and calling her "petite." CPD happens in women who are large, with babies who are small, when both are average. You can't tell by looking, and it's false to insinuate that you can.

I never said that c-sections weren't births, because that would be dumb. I said "c-sections or medicalized births," and clearly to me that means that not all medicalized births are c-sections. If I said "squares or rectangles" nobody would accuse me of excluding squares from also being rectangles.

I have no idea why any woman would feel like I don't believe that she had a rare complication just because it doesn't happen often. That doesn't make any sense.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph and all the saints in heaven.

I am an American woman, and I had/have CPD. I'm not petite now nor have I ever been. I was of average size when I was pregnant. I have scoliosis in my sacral vertebrae and it made my pelvis not be a happy place for a delivery. I had 2 c-sections, 23 and 25 years ago. I have a wonderful relationship with the spawn, my sex life didn't suffer till menopause, and I would fight for the right of any woman to deliver however she has to bring a baby into the world.

I'm more concerned that these lovely little Maxwell girls will never have the fun of sleepovers with their friends, playing on a softball team or watching the Disney Channel in the afternoon because their death worshiping Grandfather deems fun is not compatible for family life.

[terranova]

I looked like shit after my section and I didn't even labour. Definately respect her not wanting a camera in her face.

I think we're reading too much into it to think they're shunning her because she had a girl. It's obvious Teri and Steve really love Abby and Bethany.

To add my 2 cents to the csection debate. I'm 5'4", didn't look huge during pregnancy, went 10 days over and chose, with the advice (but not pressure) of an obstetrician to have an elective section due to fetus appearing large for dates. Baby Nova was close to 12lbs, so I'm very grateful for the technology that enabled me to have a wonderful birthing experiance. :)

[skankbiscuit]

Yeah, as the original poster of this thread (and notice I used the term "gave birth" - because that is what MM did) I do not understand how this turned into a debate about C sections. Who knows why she had the c-section - all they knew is that she already had one dead child and this one was also in distress of some kind.

I just wanted to chime in that I started this thread to talk about the evil Maxwells, not to start these ridiculous mommy wars. I can't remember off the top of my head the person who has "issues" with women's health misinformation, but maybe the baby did have a big ol head. Who knows? Who cares? Don't understand why YOU are taking offense when people are speculating about someone who is not YOU.

[DowagerDuchess]

The Maxwell's may be a lot of negative things to a lot of us here, but I do not believe they love new baby Christina less because she is a girl. Clearly the entire family loves and adores Abby and Bethany.

I have had a csection and a vaginal birth, 32 and 28, years ago. I had a 9.14 baby, and I didin't want a camera in my face either time. We can't all be perfectly glowing like Anna-Marie.

[FloraDoraDolly]

New pictures up.

OK WTF is going on with Melanie? All pictures of the baby (also a sibling), no mom or dad anywhere. When Joshua was born they took pictures with Christopher and Anna right away.

I don't know to be worried about whether Melanie is "okay" or wonder if they're shunning her because she had another girl. :(

Maybe Nathan took the pictures and Melanie did not want to be photographed? Plus, Joshua was born at home, which means more freedom in terms of how many visitors they could have, how long they could stay, and where they could take pictures.

I honestly don't think the Maxwells would shun Melanie for having another girl. Quiverfullers believe that all children are a blessing from God. I've never seen any Quiverfull writings where having a daughter was considered shameful or attributed to sin in the camp. It's a sexist movement, to be sure, but let's not make them out to be worse than they really are.

[tabitha2]

They want sons for bearing arms(and Bibles and votes in this case) and daughters for bearing sons ;)