Headcovering IS THE WAY

[ophelia]

too defrauding for Stevie ;-)

[tacky]

Huh. I always kind of thought Paul *was* an idiot.

Paul was a misogynistic homophobe. Idiot is too kind.

[Koala]

Joanne brings a whole new dimension to the word, "Frumper". Her personal story is pretty wild. I am a liberal, and far more conservative in my personal life than she has been, little kerchief notwithstanding. There were three men all together. Two husbands and one sperm donor to start the family off. And yes, her headship is her pastor, she met him online.

She and her children are all painfully thin. I wonder if they get enough food. They are living in the basement of a church, dependent on the charity of that Church. I suspect this is a tiny, tiny church with very few families. My grandparents lived near Monett for years. It is a small, conservative town, but even in Monett, there cannot be an abundance of frumpercovering families. She cannot work, as she is a woman and weaker vessel, so every morsel in their mouths and every scrap of headcloth is a gift, given by someone in the Church.

At some point, you wonder if it will end, or if she will stay in the basement forever, like some demented, fundie Anchorite, spewing judgment through the intrawebz.

She has MAJOR food issues. She controls every little bite that goes into their mouths and she seems to get off on seeing just how gross it can get. She has made two posts referencing eating food that the chickens have been munching on, she uses flour with bugs/worms in it, and then there's the "honey bucket" as she likes to call it.

[velly]

That makes me sad.

Please tell me this story isn't true... That would make me extremely sad.

[ophelia]

WTF?? this is disgusting! But I guess without income you have limited choices. She is probably too proud to get food stamps.

[snarkykitty]

She wrote: "Hmm ... Ok men, looks like you have to shave yourself bald every time you want to pray or prophesy. And women, since it's a shame for you to not have hair and it's just like having short hair (which most of you do anyway), then you should have hair."

Times like this make me want to chop my hair off again. I wear my hair long for two reasons. 1. It's more versatile especially when I'm sick and 2. my hair is healthy and makes me feel pretty (not that short hair doesn't, I had a bob for years which I always went back to), which makes me feel a little better about myself when I am sick and look like hell. Oh, and hubby likes it either way (it was bobbed when we met) - he just wants me to be happy with it!

[Godlesspanther-2-]

This is sad. Such an obsession with headcovering. I did read part of her spiel. Not much, I admit, as I don't find head-coverings to be a particularly riveting subject matter.

It does appear that Joanne has had a difficult life and things have spun out of control for her. One thing that she can control is putting something over her head. That she can do. It appears that her ability to control that one trivial aspect of her life makes her feel more in control of the major issues.

I would suspect that there is some element of OCD going on here. I would not be surprised if there were some well-defined ritual involved in putting on and taking off of the covering. She may have even talked about it in what I did not read.

This just makes me feel sad. Someone who relies so heavily on trivial superstition to define her life.

Pictures of her smiling -- no, I am sure that this woman is not happy in general. She's probably totally miserable.

[fluttershies]

So I am assuming she never braids her hair? After all, braids make an idiot out of Paul.

Peter, not Paul :p

[fluttershies]

I'll stand up for Paul - he was trying to get rid of temple prostitution and one particular woman who was causing trouble in the Corinthian church (which explains what he said about women not preaching - he was talking about a woMAN, not women in general). People like Joanne are doing exactly what he warned about - people twisting his words for their own gain.

[lilwriter85]

I started reading Joanne's blog a couple of weeks ago. Someone mentioned here in another thread and I looked up her blog. She is wacky and I can't see how anyone would be ok living in a church basement with their family. Maybe the basement is a quite big. The Catholic Parish center in my hometown had a huge basement that was divided into several rooms. Visiting seminarians, nuns, and guest speakers used to stay down there sometimes. But that basement would never been ideal for long term living for families. I have been in a couple of other church basements and none of them looked ideal to house families.

[emesbe]

I guess I'm confused as to why a person who believes that women should not teach/preach keeps telling all us evil sinners what we should be doing. Her blog should be recipes and homemaking tips, and that's it.

[fundiefan]

I think I might have to thank her for clarifying my situation. I am not divorced. I can't be, since I was never married. My ex husband's first ex wife was still alive when we married (and still is as far as I know, living in sin with her second husband). So, since he was never actually married to me, clearly I was never actually married to him.

If I ever did lose my marbles and decide to marry again, it will really be all good with god because it will be my first marriage - if, of course, the man I choose doesn't have a living ex spouse somewhere.

Free Pass!

[holierthanyou]

I wonder if Joanne has ever read those little verses known as "the ten commandments" that forbid idols. Her blog reads as though she has allowed head covering to become an idol in her life.

[itsnikki05]

Is she part of a denomination that requires her to dress as she does? If not, I'm beginning to think that these ladies are roleplaying their desired fantasy lives. Maybe some of these really submissive women enjoy being submissive. :twisted: If only it didn't affect the children so much.

Probably. I know it does say something in the bible about headcovering, but I know I DON'T headcover. *shrug* I laugh at all the people who claim we're goin to HELL because we don't do things one certain way. *shrug*

[godlytomatosoup]

What exactly is her church, do we know? I'm looking at her 'journey' posts, and it's not very clear. At first I thought it was just a tiny cult centred around one leader, but it looks like they have missionaries, which seems a bit more organised than what I was picturing.

[synchroswimr]

What exactly is her church, do we know? I'm looking at her 'journey' posts, and it's not very clear. At first I thought it was just a tiny cult centred around one leader, but it looks like they have missionaries, which seems a bit more organised than what I was picturing.

I think this is her church: thechurchofmonett.blogspot.com/

[Sola]

Have you read this on the church blog?

Brothers Brian and David went to the Dominican Republic again two weekends ago to fellowship with the brethren there and also to baptize Sister Griselda. Praise the Lord!!! Griselda and Jose are both pictured below; they were both married before and realized not too long ago that they were living in adultery with each other. They have been apart for several months now and doing all they know how to walk in the light. Sister Griselda is facing trials at work right now because of wanting to follow the bible in regards to dressing modestly and covering her head. Her job is much needed, but we know if she gets fired for following the Lord, he will provide help. Please pray she will be strong and continue to follow the Truth no matter what it costs her.

So they have gone to a developing nation where the people are more likely to be superstitious, less educated and convinced two happily married people that they need to separate.

Then if that wasn't bad enough, they have convinced the woman - who could now be a single parent - to risk her job.

These people make me sick.

[alba]

Paul was a misogynistic homophobe. Idiot is too kind.

Oh, I agree that he was; I just didn't put that in my post because I was using Joanne's wording.

[godlytomatosoup]

I think this is her church: thechurchofmonett.blogspot.com/

Thanks. Looks really fucking creepy.

[contrary]

Have you read this on the church blog?

So they have gone to a developing nation where the people are more likely to be superstitious, less educated and convinced two happily married people that they need to separate.

Then if that wasn't bad enough, they have convinced the woman - who could now be a single parent - to risk her job.

These people make me sick.

that's so awful, i'm just...i just...

they've ruined those people's lives.

[ophelia]

The people of her church seem to be really creepy. And knowing that she lives as a single mum under the basement of their church doesn't make it better. I wonder how the other women treat her?! Do they look down on her for being divorced?

[contrary]

Maybe they do, but then I think she's probably admired for leaving her adulterous relationship with her kind and decent second husband.

[Petronella7]

So if she came to believe that her marriage was adulterous or whatever, wouldn't the solution have been to have a religious wedding ceremony, rather than abandoning her loving husband and subjecting three children to homelessness, poverty, and dependency? I don't get why she got so hung up on still being "married" to her first, abusive husband, such that she didn't feel "married" to her second, nice husband. As I understand it, both of her marriages were legal, civil ceremonies, not done in any church that she recognizes. She could just as consistently have considered her first marriage to be not a "real" marriage as it wasn't done in her religion. And so considered herself to be free to marry her second husband in a way that would satisfy her.

She seems very irrational and, as someone above said, chaotic.

[Kaylee]

So if she came to believe that her marriage was adulterous or whatever, wouldn't the solution have been to have a religious wedding ceremony, rather than abandoning her loving husband and subjecting three children to homelessness, poverty, and dependency? I don't get why she got so hung up on still being "married" to her first, abusive husband, such that she didn't feel "married" to her second, nice husband. As I understand it, both of her marriages were legal, civil ceremonies, not done in any church that she recognizes. She could just as consistently have considered her first marriage to be not a "real" marriage as it wasn't done in her religion. And so considered herself to be free to marry her second husband in a way that would satisfy her.

The idea is that, once you are married, any other marriage while your first spouse is still alive is considered adultery. I think that's a pretty standard belief among most anabaptist (and some Baptists, although not as strict, but I know of MANY Baptist preachers that will not perform a second marriage for a person, even if they may accept remarried people as church members). It's not so much about being married by the church, but forming a covenant by marriage and not being free to remarry while the spouse is still alive. Most Amish, conservative Mennonites, etc belief this way too, it's just more of an issue with a church that has adult converts instead of people who grew up with that belief.

I'd be hesitant to remarry if my husband and I divorced, for that reason. I am more inclined to think that, since the Bible permits divorce in certain cases, it would also permit remarriage, but there are certain verses that do support what Joanne says if you read them literally. It's also one of those things where, if someone really believes that they are in sin, it is better for them to remove that "sin" from their life than to risk it, even if it puts them in a hard situation and looks sort of crazy to outsiders. One thing I do have to respect about Joanne and the people from her church is that they do attempt to follow the whole Bible instead of deciding things they don't like don't apply. It's actually very rational if you look at it from the point of view of deciding the Bible is to be taken literally and then attempting to do so.

She posted on another thread here a while back and I think she explained some about why she left her second marriage and how she found the church and why she moved out there to join it.

[Petronella7]

The idea is that, once you are married, any other marriage while your first spouse is still alive is considered adultery. I think that's a pretty standard belief among most anabaptist (and some Baptists, although not as strict, but I know of MANY Baptist preachers that will not perform a second marriage for a person, even if they may accept remarried people as church members). It's not so much about being married by the church, but forming a covenant by marriage and not being free to remarry while the spouse is still alive. Most Amish, conservative Mennonites, etc belief this way too, it's just more of an issue with a church that has adult converts instead of people who grew up with that belief.

I'd be hesitant to remarry if my husband and I divorced, for that reason. I am more inclined to think that, since the Bible permits divorce in certain cases, it would also permit remarriage, but there are certain verses that do support what Joanne says if you read them literally. It's also one of those things where, if someone really believes that they are in sin, it is better for them to remove that "sin" from their life than to risk it, even if it puts them in a hard situation and looks sort of crazy to outsiders. One thing I do have to respect about Joanne and the people from her church is that they do attempt to follow the whole Bible instead of deciding things they don't like don't apply. It's actually very rational if you look at it from the point of view of deciding the Bible is to be taken literally and then attempting to do so.

She posted on another thread here a while back and I think she explained some about why she left her second marriage and how she found the church and why she moved out there to join it.

Yes, I understand that she believes that her second marriage was adultery because her first husband was still alive. I know that many religions believe this, most notably the Catholic church. For Catholics, you can get legally divorced as much as you want but the Church will still consider you to be married to your legally divorced spouse. And you will not be able to be married in the Church again unless you get an actual annulment from the Church. And the grounds for annulment are very few and hard to obtain. But! this only counts for if you were married in the church in the first place! If your first marriage was not in the church, then you are considered to be free to be married as a Catholic, just as though the first marriage had not happened. At least, this is my understanding.

I just don't understand why she considers EITHER of her marriages to be valid marriages, as neither of them was performed in a church that she believes in. In the eyes of her God, she was never married at all, to either one of these men. What the state accepts as a marriage is not the same as being married in the eyes of the church. So the way she could look at it is, she was living in sin + fornicating with Husband #1, followed by living in sin + fornicating with Husband #2, but not committing adultery. And the cure for living in sin, is to get married! So if it bothered her so much that she was prepared to break up her family over it, she could have gotten married "properly", i.e. religiously, to Husband #2. Hope this makes sense, I am not very good at expressing my thoughts.

Also, there's not much point in trying to puzzle out reasons for why Joanne decides the things that she does. She is unbalanced and her church-shopping and chaotic relationships are the result.