Creflo Dollar arrested, charged with cruelty to children

[kittypie]

What's worse than a patriarch? A filthy rich patriarch.

What's that smell? The smell of wretched excess.

[QAF_Rocks]

Another comment:

:(

This seems to be the reason that a lot of conservative evangelicals and fundies are so harsh with their children. It's all about producing kids who will willingly submit to a tyrannical and abusive deity. If the penalty for dissent is eternal torture, wouldn't a loving parent take drastic measures to keep their children from suffering that fate? In their eyes, it's better to beat the children to get rid of all that "sin" and rebellion than to take the risk that the kids won't learn to properly submit to their god later in life.

[Godlesspanther-2-]

Hi folks, this is my first post here.

I read that account of Dollar's arrest and many of the subsequent comments about it. One thing that I would take into consideration is what Dollar does within the evangelical culture.

Prosperity Gospel. It is a highly effective scam in which a preacher convinces people that if they send money to him then God will reward them with a return that is many times that initial investment. It's like gambling only worse. The people who fall prey to this scam are very desperate people. They need money for medical expenses, they lost a job, about to lose a house, have come down with a severe medical condition, or the like. One can be sure that the people involved in Dollar's cult are not stable, secure, and successful.

I have received junk mail from these operations. One of the things that is stressed in the letters is that in order to receive that blessings from that almighty, one must follow the instructions explicitly without any deviation -- or it won't work. The cult itself is based on a very strict authoritarian structure. They are taught to believe, without reservation, absolutely everything the cult leader tells them to. This is why when Dollar claims that he was the victim of false arrest because his daughter is a lying little bitch -- he gets a standing ovation.

Now -- this is a hypothetical that I thought of -- what if it were the exact same scenario although the child abuser were a prominent atheist?

For one, he would not get unmitigated support from the atheist community, and the same people who are supporting Dollar and saying that and unruly 15-year-old needs a good smack if she is disobedient, would be outraged and ready to put the abuser in the electric chair.

Same thing if it were a Muslim or Wiccan or some other minority religion.

But somehow it's the Christians who are soooooo persecuted.

Perhaps if I were enlightened with the presence of the Holy Spirit I would be able to see that as logical and rational.

[girlwind]

From the comments:

:shock: I mean what.the.fuck?!?!

This is entirely believable. Respectfully, but if you're a Black woman of a certain demographic and age, you were raised under the tenant of might makes right, and you were not given a whole hell of a lot of healthy models for black female power. At all.

I suggest you read this amazing, difficult, emotionally wrenching "Report From the Kitchen Floor" from the crunkcollective's blog:

http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpres ... ger-alert/

My mother, like yours, was raised before Oprah and the eighties research on child-centered, intentional parenting. She deserved respect and confused it with fear. And who was supposed to teach her the difference?

It is, and is not, an apology by an abused child excusing the abuser's behavior. Consider it a window into one of the many the parallel American cultures running in the shadow of the dominant paradigm.

[Buzzard]

http://www.ajc.com/news/pastor-creflo-d ... 56652.html

Dollar said he was disciplining his daughter -- restraining her after she became disrespectful because he wouldn't allow her to attend a party. She claimed in the police report that Dollar choked her, grabbed her by the shoulders and threw her to the ground. Reaction to the incident on social media ranged from the general -- Is corporal punishment an acceptable form of discipline and when does it become child abuse? -- to the specific -- Is it befitting of a Christian to physically discipline a child?

Hey dickwad, there's a big difference between disciplining and "restraining." Neither permit you to choke your child. Dont try and minimize that fact that your child wasnt listening to you because of your PARENTING FAIL. Perhaps try a different way in the future.

"I don't think it is necessary to raise your hands to a child," said pastor John Wierwille of Berea Mennonite Church in Atlanta. "We don't think violence is acceptable ever by Christians." It is important, he said, to live by example, whether that be encouraging prayer or preventing violence -- a lesson he said can be drawn from Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

"What matters for us is asking, was Jesus the sort of person who would push or hit people to get his point across?" Wierwille said. "He taught in metaphors because the truth is plain before our eyes. We know the difference between right and wrong."

When the book of Proverbs can be cited by both supporters and detractors of corporal punishment, it's not surprising that right and wrong gets muddied. Rev. Anthony David, senior minister of Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Atlanta, said it's one example of the Bible's paradoxes.

"So much of scripture continues to be inspiring. On the other hand, there are places in scripture where we find things that really are wrong -- that really go against our best knowledge of what we know today," he said.

Discipline, he said, is about building character and any action should be aimed in that direction. "When you violate a kid's physical boundaries like that, you are setting them up to be pushed around as adults or to push others around. It is not the kind of character we want to build," David said.

We have mennonites in Atlanta? And, wait - someone go check hell because it froze over. THE AJC IS ACTUALLY SOLICITING INFORMATION FROM ALTERNATE SOURCES RATHER THAN JUST A PRESS RELEASE!

You can't tell a parent they are right or wrong as to how they discipline their child," said Keba Richmond-Green, executive director of Dream Girlz Unlimited Inc., an organization that helps empower girls age 13 to 25. In her parenting workshops, Richmond-Green often hears from parents frustrated with their child's disrespectful behavior. "We can give them tools and offer assistance to help them do things a little better," she said.

Huh? Fuck yeah I can tell people they're wrong for how they discipline their child. Its called PRISON. Some of the Pearl followers are well aquainted with it. And sweet name there... "Dream Girlz"... yeah, I really think "empowerment" when I read that... not a porn name or anything like that at all.

Tips for disciplining children:

1. Don’t punish. Reward.

2. Don’t criticize. Praise.

3. Put the relationship first. Being right is not what matters.

4. Talk less. Listen more.

5. Understand the world from their perspective.

I like it! What scares me is that this is even a discussion. A pop on the butt is one thing (which I oppose but thats beside the point), CHOKING is a crime. Thats not discipline even in your twisted mindfuck bible interpretation. Spare the thumbs pressed on your windpipe and spoil the child? I think not! Every "man of god" in earshot should be screaming that but, of course, they're not... and neither is the AJC. Always Just Crap!

[MyNameIsJonas]

Awesome article posted by a friend on FB this morning. I love this part:

"Consider this my remix. Jesus already died, and I refuse to let the Black Church turn me into a martyr for its causes. I refuse to stand by while Black men (and women) use bad theology about headship and Black women and men use bad theology about “sparing the rod†to heap indignities on women and children in the name of God. Our blind investment in patriarchy, and the kind of hierarchy it promotes in churches and families is not healthy for a people who continue to find themselves on the bottom of every social hierarchy that exists. In my faith communities, being a feminist makes me suspect. But to them I say, Jesus was a feminist. In my feminist communities, being a Christian often makes me suspect. And to them I say the same thing, Jesus was a feminist. So I am going to unapologetically let my faith and my feminism inform one another."

crunkfeministcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/when-the-church-fails-its-women-7-truths-we-need-to-tell-about-creflo-dollar-black-daughters-and-violence/

ITA. Thanks for this and this :

I suggest you read this amazing, difficult, emotionally wrenching "Report From the Kitchen Floor" from the crunkcollective's blog: http://crunkfeministcollective.wordpres ... ger-alert/

Sometimes I get very frustrated and ask why "they" are making the rest of "us" look bad and have to remember that that's not the real issue here...

[thoughtful]

Asshat.

Am I reading correctly that his wife's name is Taffy Dollar? How unfortunate.

I believe her maiden name was Pull.

:D

Oh, and of course I agree that he's an abusive fuck, and the comments supporting him are sickening.

[DistantStar]

":xpky39li]But somehow it's the Christians who are soooooo persecuted.

Those Christians, but not all Christians. And they have no idea what persecution is.

[Buzzard]

I kinda wanna get the police report...

[Rosa]

i think they linked it at crunk feminist collective, Buzzard. Linked from a keyword (I didn't go read it, though).

Jonas, I never post this kind of shit over there because it's derail-y, but the whole "discipline is whoopings/they beat me and I grew up fine" thing is not specific to Black people - it's just about all working-class people as far as I can tell. Immigrants kids think it's an immigrant thing, Black people think it's a Black thing, white Midwesterners think it's a Midwestern thing, Christians think it's a Christian thing. That dumb meme goes around my facebook annually about how we all got beat with a wooden spoon and grew up FINE (I love it when it comes from someone with a sibling in prison, that's the best.) and that's 99% white folks (the Black folks on my Facebook are my grownup work friends who don't say ignorant shit, at least in public.)

That's actually what I came over here to say - the comments and support for Creflo are so typical of every time this comes up, just in this case addressed to the Black church instead of the Evangelical Church or just plain "old days" parenting. Remember the judge who shot the laptop and his supporters? We sure have a lot of scary violence-loving authoritarians in this country. I'm sure some of them are just spankers who think because the words "discipline" and "spanking" and "parenting" are used it was some benign tap on the ass (or benign threat? I know a TON of people who think threatening violence is fine even if they wouldn't really hit.) but there are an awful lot who just think anything you do to your own flesh is A-OK.

[MyNameIsJonas]

i think they linked it at crunk feminist collective, Buzzard. Linked from a keyword (I didn't go read it, though).

Jonas, I never post this kind of shit over there because it's derail-y, but the whole "discipline is whoopings/they beat me and I grew up fine" thing is not specific to Black people - it's just about all working-class people as far as I can tell. Immigrants kids think it's an immigrant thing, Black people think it's a Black thing, white Midwesterners think it's a Midwestern thing, Christians think it's a Christian thing. That dumb meme goes around my facebook annually about how we all got beat with a wooden spoon and grew up FINE (I love it when it comes from someone with a sibling in prison, that's the best.) and that's 99% white folks (the Black folks on my Facebook are my grownup work friends who don't say ignorant shit, at least in public.)

That's actually what I came over here to say - the comments and support for Creflo are so typical of every time this comes up, just in this case addressed to the Black church instead of the Evangelical Church or just plain "old days" parenting. Remember the judge who shot the laptop and his supporters? We sure have a lot of scary violence-loving authoritarians in this country. I'm sure some of them are just spankers who think because the words "discipline" and "spanking" and "parenting" are used it was some benign tap on the ass (or benign threat? I know a TON of people who think threatening violence is fine even if they wouldn't really hit.) but there are an awful lot who just think anything you do to your own flesh is A-OK.

I agree. Maybe being part of the community makes me see the fanaticism as much worse than other communities

[Rosa]

Yeah, that makes it extra shitty. Oh, my people. I'm not even surprised anymore when Christians have these articles but when pagans argue that "real" women are raised to hit back and not allow domestic violence so we don't have to address it in our communities...I have higher standards for my community than the rest of the world, so it hurts more.

[Buzzard]

themommypsychologist.com/2012/06/17/creflo-dollar-arrested-for-child-abuse/

It seems that this whole event has dropped off the radar. This is the sole discussion of it within the past 10 days on the first few pages of a google search (and she seems to think like us).

Where's the 911 call on the news? Where's the booking pic and police report? The media gets them for every other case and plays them over and over... nope. Tonight the news was about a bear stuck in someone's garage... I call bullshit!