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Mormonism and racism?


AtroposHeart

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Anyone who still takes the Book of Mormon seriously is going to need some extensive surgery to remove their head from their ass. Just MY two cents.

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Why is mixed race dating/marriage also discouraged in "For the Strength of Youth"?

I read a FSY pamphlet about two years ago that said that people should only date and marry their own race. That seems a bit racist to me. Does FSY still state that, or did they finally get rid of that line?

Really? The current FSY says nothing about that, only to date those with high standards ([link=]https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/dating?lang=eng[/link].

I might have an older FSY pamphlet around my house and I can see what was written before, but the current pamphlet says nothing about it now.

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Really? The current FSY says nothing about that, only to date those with high standards ([link=]https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/dating?lang=eng[/link].

I might have an older FSY pamphlet around my house and I can see what was written before, but the current pamphlet says nothing about it now.

You keep referring to how everything is different now. I thought "The Word" was final. The current changes just prove to me again how masterful Mormonism is at spinning. I have a Mormon sister, and another one who go into it but left. I know very well that Mormons consider themselves to be chosen people, and that they feel they should be rulers of the world. Granted most religions feel this way, but Mormons put on the fakey-fake face of such wholesome wonderfulness and innocence. Which is pretty fucking scary, considering that you base your religion on the ravings and hallucinations of a highly delusional "prophet".

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Dhani_C, what do you think about the fact that it's been proven that Native Americans were not descended from Israelites but most likely from Asians? And that the majority of what went on in the BOM could never have happened?

Why do you buy into the idea that Jesus paid America a special visit? To me it just looks like a giant ploy for people to have a reason to say that America is The Most Speshul Country Evah. And for Joseph Smith to feed his ego. The man read the 'plates' out of a HAT with a STONE. And then whenever he wanted to do something dodgy (eg marry underage women) that was okay because God said so. And then curiously enough the church realised polygamy was wrong when it was banned, just like how they realised the racist parts were wrong after the civil rights movement. I guarantee that one day, when homophobia gets the same stigma as racism (as it should), the church will 'realise' that the verses condemning homosexuality were mistranslated as well.

How can you not see the strings?

Several experiences in my life have affirmed to me that the church/Gospel is true. I don't care to share them though, because they are very personal and I don't care to have them put through the shredder.

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You keep referring to how everything is different now. I thought "The Word" was final. The current changes just prove to me again how masterful Mormonism is at spinning. I have a Mormon sister, and another one who go into it but left. I know very well that Mormons consider themselves to be chosen people, and that they feel they should be rulers of the world. Granted most religions feel this way, but Mormons put on the fakey-fake face of such wholesome wonderfulness and innocence. Which is pretty fucking scary, considering that you base your religion on the ravings and hallucinations of a highly delusional "prophet".

The only materials that get updated regularly are the church manuals in order to reflect the current era (getting rid of era references no one would understand). The scriptures themselves have not been changed. A long time ago they made clarifying (i.e. grammar) edits to the scriptures, but it did not change the intent/content of any verses affected (you can find the changes on the church website).

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Guest Anonymous
The only materials that get updated regularly are the church manuals in order to reflect the current era (getting rid of era references no one would understand). The scriptures themselves have not been changed. A long time ago they made clarifying (i.e. grammar) edits to the scriptures, but it did not change the intent/content of any verses affected (you can find the changes on the church website).

You are just swimming in the kool-aid.

One such Mormon-"owned" slave was Jane Elizabeth Manning James--otherwise known among her Mormon friends and White overseers as "Aunt Jane."

Aunt Jane was a faithful Black Mormon convert who worked in the household of Joseph and Emma Smith. After years of faithful belief and devotion to clean-up duty, she had the audacity to repeatedly petition the leaders of the Mormon Church to be sealed via temple endowment to her husband, but was denied her request by the Quorum of the Twelve.

Instead, she was made to settle for her White "owner," Joseph Smith--as his slave for time and all eternity:

"The Territory of Utah gave up the practice of slavery along with the slave-holding states; however, the fact that they countenanced it when it was being practiced shows how insensitive they were to the feelings of black people. Even after the slaves were set free the Mormons continued to talk against blacks. In the year 1884, Angus M. Cannon said that 'a colored man . . . is not capable of receiving the Priesthood, and can never reach the highest Celestial glory of the Kingdom of God.' ('The Salt Lake Tribune,' October 5, 1884)

"The idea that blacks were inferior and should only be servants to the whites persisted in Mormon theology. In fact, Mormon leaders seemed to feel that blacks would still be servants in heaven. On August 26, 1908, President Joseph F. Smith related that a black woman was sealed as a servant to Joseph Smith:

"'The same efforts he said had been made by Aunt Jane to receive her endowments and be sealed to her husband and have her children sealed to their parents and her appeal was made to all the Presidents from President Young down to the present First Presidency. But President Cannon conceived the idea that, under the circumstances, it would be proper to permit her to go to the temple to be adopted to the Prophet Joseph Smith as his servant and this was done. This seemed to ease her mind for a little while but did not satisfy her, and she still pleaded for her endowments.' ('Excerpts From The Weekly Council Meetings Of The Quorum Of The Twelve Apostles,' as printed in 'Mormonism-Shadow or Reality?,' p. 584).

"The idea that a black is only worthy of the position of a servant has deep roots in Mormon theology. Mark E. Petersen, . . . [former] Apostle in the church, once said that if a 'Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.' ('Race Problems-As They Affect The Church,' a speech delivered at Brigham Young University, August 27, 1954)."

(Jerald and Sandra Tanner, "Changing the Anti-Black Doctrine," Chapter 10, Part 1, in "The Changing World of Mormonism," Utah Lighthouse Ministry, at: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech10a.htm)

Jane Elizabeth Manning James (1813-1908)--even in faith, a victim of Mormon bigotry, RIP:

"Jane Elizabeth Manning was born in Wilton, Connecticut, one of five children of Isaac and Phyllis Manning, a free black family. Although Jane was a member of the local Presbyterian Church, she remained spiritually unfulfilled until 1842 when she heard the message of a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . . . .

"Soon afterwards she joined the Mormon Church. One year following her conversion, Jane Elizabeth and several family members who had also converted decided to move to Nauvoo, Illinois, the headquarters of the Mormon Church. After traveling by boat to Buffalo, New York, the African American Mormons, unable to pay additional fares, began an eight-hundred-mile journey by foot to Nauvoo. In Nauvoo, Jane lived and worked in the home of Joseph Smith, Jr. the founder of the LDS Church and his wife, Emma.

"Following the 1844 murder of Joseph Smith, Jr. and his brother Hyrum in Carthage, Illinois, Mormon leaders under Brigham Young decided to abandon Nauvoo and look for a safe haven in the West away from forces hostile to the LDS Church.

"In the fall of 1847, Jane, her husband Isaac James whom she married in 1841, and two sons traveled across the plains to the new home of the LDS Church in the Salt Lake Valley. They were the first free black pioneers in the Mormon settlement and Jane would spend the remaining fifty-one years of her life in Utah. They shared the hardships of their fellow Mormons and engaged in the spirit of mutual aid and cooperation that characterized LDS pioneer life.

"By the 1880s Jane became increasingly concerned about her place in the afterlife. Well aware of the LDS Church's proscriptions that prohibited blacks from full participation in the rituals that were prerequisite to being eligible for a place in the celestial kingdom, she nonetheless argued for an exemption because of her faith.

"'Is there no blessing for me?' she asked Church leaders for more than a decade. Those leaders refused her requests. They attempted to pacify her by authorizing her limited participation in LDS rituals.

"Through it all, Jane Manning James remained a devout Mormon and is generally recognized in LDS history for her unwavering faith. Jane Manning James died in Salt Lake City in 1908.

"A special monument to her is located in the Salt Lake City Cemetery, close to her gravesite, to commemorate her life and faith."

(Ronald G. Coleman, "'Is There No Blessing for Me?': Jane Elizabeth Manning James, A Mormon African American Woman," in Quintard Taylor and Shirley Ann Moore Wilson, eds., "African American Women Confront the West," 1600-2000 [Norman, Oklahoma: University of Oklahoma Press 2003], at: http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aaw/james-j ... -1813-1908)

Ahhhhh, how sweetly described--and deceptively presented.

That "limited participation in LDS rituals," as it is euphemistically described above, is more fully laid out on pp. 152-157 of Coleman's biography of "Aunt Jane." There it is painfully detailed how, despite her faithfulness--and only because of her so-called "cursed" race--she was relentlessly denied her personal plea for access to the Mormon temple for her own family sealing endowment.

The First Presidency also rejected her request to be adopted, via temple sealing, into the family of Joseph and Emma Smith, in whose home she faithfully worked as a servant.

The First Presidency eventually, out of the kindness of their white-and-delightsome hearts, did permit her to be eternally sealed to Joseph Smith as his servant.

(Tracking note: Google search "Ronald G. Coleman Manning." Up will come "African American Women Confront the West, 1600-2000 -Google Books Result." Click on that and Coleman's article will appear).

Please explain to me how that's not racist.

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Then we will have to agree to disagree. You see it one way and I see it the other. The Lamanites were not denied blessings as a result of this marking and were (and their ancestors are today) a chosen and choice people.

And thanks for not calling me a racist :). It would really confuse my boyfriend if I were. :lol:

Hahahahaha...yes having a relationship with a different ethnicity qualifies a person as 'not racist'. I'm also not homophobic because "I have gay friends." I can use the n-word because "My best friend is black."

Now on topic. Since Mormons use both the KJV & the BOM, I want to point out that the KJV: Malachi 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not;...

I find it odd that pressure from society coincided with these revelations in Mormon doctrine, not just on race, polygamy also. From my point of view, Mormons willfully hide many of the weirder practices & information from it's members. It is simply amazing to me how many practicing Mormons have little knowledge of their own church history. The Book of Abraham??? Very interesting read. Like any other religion, if you grow up with it, it probably seems normal. I am not writing to change anyone's religion, if you are happy with it, so be it.

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Several experiences in my life have affirmed to me that the church/Gospel is true. I don't care to share them though, because they are very personal and I don't care to have them put through the shredder.

I'm not asking/expecting you to share but people from Islam 'know' the Qur'an is true, in the same way that Catholics 'know' the Pope is inspired. If everyone knows they are right and what they're reading is true then it doesn't say much for religion is general. Do you think if you were raised in a different culture you would have the same experiences? Because when I read bits of the BOM I didn't get any kind of special feeling. I felt bored. And if you investigate the church/BOM and see that history doesn't match up with it how can you continue to go along with it? It's a fraud. And the book's been changed about fifty times after being criticised, yet supposedly it's the unchanging voice of God. Why does He change His mind if what He's saying is the unwavering truth? Do you know about all the whacky stuff the church has practised and hidden over the years?

It comes across as a double bind to me. You're meant to know this BOM is true by this feeling but if you don't get the feeling you're wrong or not praying hard enough, so you just have to try harder. Sounds like everyone is seeking out the placebo effect, IMO. Have you read much criticism of the church? Or do you not bother with 'anti-Mormon' literature?

And I really, really don't know how you can look at a text which talks about people having dark skin as a sign of separation from God and not see it as racist.

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The verse in question is 2 Nephi 5:21:

21 And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

Here's an old interview with the Osmonds, like many that we snark on, this interview shows how easily people blindly drink the koolaid.

QuSde2jGhm8

Each time I see Donny Osmond I'm reminded of an interview he did on the Howard Stern show back in 1999 or so. It was, uhm, interesting...

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The only materials that get updated regularly are the church manuals in order to reflect the current era (getting rid of era references no one would understand). The scriptures themselves have not been changed. A long time ago they made clarifying (i.e. grammar) edits to the scriptures, but it did not change the intent/content of any verses affected (you can find the changes on the church website).

Kool-Aid - you're marinating in it.

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Then we will have to agree to disagree. You see it one way and I see it the other. The Lamanites were not denied blessings as a result of this marking and were (and their ancestors are today) a chosen and choice people.

And thanks for not calling me a racist :). It would really confuse my boyfriend if I were. :lol:

tumblr_m1lywvFA3P1qgt07co1_500.jpg

Statements like this make it really hard for me to date interracially. :roll:

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Several experiences in my life have affirmed to me that the church/Gospel is true. I don't care to share them though, because they are very personal and I don't care to have them put through the shredder.

I really do respect that you don't want to discuss it, but if you don't want to give any defense for it, do you think you could stop putting forward assertive statements about the church, and church history and intentions, as if they're plain fact?

When I say "The BoM is a racist POS", I have things I can use to back that assertion. Otherwise I don't think I'd assert it.

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I think it would be one thing if LDS leadership just said outright "look, our early leaders were a product of their time and culture, and were racist. We do not support their words and actions now, and ask for forgiveness for that part of our history."

But they don't. Instead, they make bogus statements about how it wasn't racism, but "continual revelation" So God just changed his mind is all, it's not really the Mormon's fault because God told us to!

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Guest Anonymous

I really do respect that you don't want to discuss it, but if you don't want to give any defense for it, do you think you could stop putting forward assertive statements about the church, and church history and intentions, as if they're plain fact?

When I say "The BoM is a racist POS", I have things I can use to back that assertion. Otherwise I don't think I'd assert it.

If she says it, it's a fact, if someone else says it, she chooses not to believe it. (Examples: The Mitt Romney being a total asshole when he was a bishop and spiritually abusing someone issue, plus all of the extremely racist stuff in her church's history.) It doesn't matter what anyone tells her or what evidence they show her, she's going to stick her fingers in her ears and shut her eyes. Maybe we should give her a stack of documents and a magic rock to interpret them with.

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Guest Anonymous

And when Dhani_C can't refute the mountains of evidence, she flees. Just like every single other time negative facts about Mormonism have been discussed.

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And when Dhani_C can't refute the mountains of evidence, she flees. Just like every single other time negative facts about Mormonism have been discussed.

The fundie flounce, happens every single time. She'll be back on the next Mormon thread to tell us how wonderful it is.

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Several experiences in my life have affirmed to me that the church/Gospel is true. I don't care to share them though, because they are very personal and I don't care to have them put through the shredder.

Ah yes, sacred but not secret. I am sure your testimony is one of them. Did you know the church encourages people to lie and say they experienced a revelation of their testimony so that they will actually get one?

You do know you can have your faith while finding problems within your church and their books.

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And when Dhani_C can't refute the mountains of evidence, she flees. Just like every single other time negative facts about Mormonism have been discussed.

I was hoping she wouldn't flee. Hopefully there's a Gray's Anatomy marathon on & she'll be back soon. :think: I'm hoping for the standard Mormon "I know the church is true" rhetoric.

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Dhani_C, what do you think of these charming quotes? Prophets have claimed that interracial marriage should be punishable by death, black people will be servants in the celestial kingdom and that black people survived the Flood so Satan could have a representation of earth, among other horrible things. And they haven't been 'misquoted' either.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,525737,525737

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