I Was a Good Mormon Wife Until My Husband Stopped.......

[lilwriter85]

That's what gets me, aside from the aggressive conversion mongering, is that they made it sound like G-d himself proclaimed that the rules changed instead of the truth which "Times have changed and we must change our practices to fit with them". Even the Catholic church has been that honest, I don't recall hearing that Vatican II was ordained by G-d but was instead an attempt to keep up with the views and morals of modern society.

I have little issue with the religious beliefs of others until it starts getting into the "let me tell you what you should believe", "you're going to hell if you don't believe XYZ" " you're not good enough due to your religion". There's also the idea that you have to "donate" a large amount of money to stay in G-d's good graces to the church, not even to a charity that you believe in. That's where I start getting the "this is a cult filled with hooey" kind of feeling. Why is it that so many supposed believers ignore the Bible when it says that the righteous of all nations shall have a place in the Kingdom of heaven to come? And also where it defines tithing as basically contributing to society and to the poor, not to the religious hierachy.

I also wish the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jews for Jeebus would compile a do not knock list. Please people, stop coming to my door!

I also wish a do not knock list existed. The JWs who have come to my house are the non-aggresive types. They leave you alone if you tell them that you aren't interested in their materials. My friends and relatives have told me stories of very aggressive JWs. One of my friends was a SAHM for awhile and there were two JW sisters that kept going to her house. My friend's hubby was home during a week day once and he answered the door to the JW sisters and he told them not to come back. They never did and my friend has so glad her hubby did that. My friend had been wanting them to stop going over, but she didn't want to be mean to them.

[SisiL78]

I've had some VERY aggressive Mormons come to my door. OUr neighborhood is quite pedestrian friendly and people walk around a lot. I stopped wearing religious jewelry and skirts in order to stop signaling "JEW!" to them.

I had to point pepper spray in the faces of two guys who wouldn't stop following me down the street in the evening. After that I started feeling ill everytime I saw men in white shirts and black ties with name tags.

There's something terrifying about 2 men following you and not taking no for an answer. Its not entirely typical b/c they usually do go away when you ask them to but if you give that sort of authority and mission to a person with an already aggressive personality it can turn super creepy. Plus, it makes me feel really uncomfortable to know that I'm being targeted based on my religious beliefs. This is very unsettling considering my family's own history with pogroms, gulags, and concentration camps.

[nokidsmom]

I also wish a do not knock list existed. The JWs who have come to my house are the non-aggresive types. They leave you alone if you tell them that you aren't interested in their materials. My friends and relatives have told me stories of very aggressive JWs. One of my friends was a SAHM for awhile and there were two JW sisters that kept going to her house. My friend's hubby was home during a week day once and he answered the door to the JW sisters and he told them not to come back. They never did and my friend has so glad her hubby did that. My friend had been wanting them to stop going over, but she didn't want to be mean to them.

We haven't had Mormons, though there is an LDS church in the area, but the JWs are around with regularity. One time I was out, and Mr. Nokidsmom decided to be polite and answered the door to an older JW man and talked to the guy for while. For the next few months, the guy kept coming back; we finally told him to stop. Just a few weeks ago, we had JW's coming again and they were really aggressive, thought they were going to break down the door.

[Arete]

We've had Mormon and JW missionaries come to our door. The Mormon kids go away if you ask them. The JWs targeted us by sending greek speakers to our door on several occasions. It turns out that they were systematically going through the phone book picking out greek names because greeks in several towns around us had the same thing happen at the same time. My mom put a stop to our harrassment when she meet them at the door one day with her greek bible, and proceeded to systematically blow their verse translations out of the water. They never came by again. She told other people how she did it and it became one of the lines of defense. Some of the our men would go to the door and proceed to tell the JWs that they worshipped the devil. I kid you not. The JWs stopped.

Our community was also targeted by evangelical protestants, so the kids in our generation grew up being very hostile to proselytizing.

[freejoytoo]

There are no LDS churches in the area (there aren't that many in Britain) but I've had JWs in the past. They don't come very often. One day I'm going to have a debate with them and shove it in their face but I can't be bothered so far. My friend kept the leaflets and stuck the pictures of paradise on the fridge. I love how everyone is going to look like it's the seventies and you can pet a lion.

[treemom]

I just say, I am sorry I don't discuss my faith with strangers and close the door. Just like when telemarketers call. I say I am sorry, but I am not interested and hang up.

There are no rules that say we have to allow them to persist.

[lilwriter85]

I remember in one of threads, a poster here said that a JW or Mormon missionary try force themselves into her house.I have never encountered Mormon missionaries, but people I know who have had said different things. Some are aggressive and others aren't. I would rather take JW or Mormon, knocking on my door than someone like Steve Anderson aka PP.

[Katiebug]

The Mormon missionaries are polite guys - they come around once or twice a year now. We used to live in the same apartment building as two pairs of them (individual guys never stayed more than a few months) and they were pleasant and non-pushy.

My husband's uncle bought a used car from the local LDS mission, which the missionaries had used (we're a pretty car-centric area). It had the radio removed and he asked the mission president about it - they removed the radios from all of the missionaries' cars so that they couldn't listen to secular music during their missions. There was a tape deck but they could only listen to religious or classical music tapes which the mission president provided to them.

The JWs are pushy as hell and come around frequently (I think someone in the neighborhood is one of them) and one of the few times I didn't look first I answered the door when they came calling. They wouldn't take "no" for an answer and one over-zealous gentleman tried to stop me from shutting my own door by basically putting his body in the way. I told him if he didn't get off my property immediately I was calling the police. Now when we see them roaming the neighborhood we just don't answer the door or go outside for any reason until they leave; we've seen them walk up the driveway and pester our neighbors while putting their kids into their car seats to leave! They knock LOUDLY and repeatedly (super annoying when DD was a baby) and then give up and leave the stupid ass Watchtower wedged into the screen door.

I have a friend who's LDS so started reading on exmormon.org starting back in 2000 or thereabouts. She has never been pushy or tried to convert me, but some of the stuff that church espouses is just crazy.

[treemom]

Oh hell if anyone tried to prevent me from shutting my door I would ask them to not come in, go grab my phone and call the police why they were standing there.

[Elle]

There was a time when I was super critical of Judaism etc... Until I started learning about other religions where critcism would get your butt kicked out while I got the feeling that most Rabbis I knew enjoyed a good argument.

I've met members of many religions who refuse to have as close friends people who aren't of their religion or won't convert. But I've yet to come by a Jew who is the same way. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that they don't seem to be as common. i've met a lot of Jews though who have fun with their own religion, and while they take the sacramental things seriously, they still have fun with their religion and are willing to get into a good debate about it without casting out the person on the other side at the end of the night never to speak to them again. How many other religions have books about how enjoying sex is a good thing with tips to try? A RABBI published a book like that! In other religions, you keep quiet about sex, and sometimes even the girls aren't supposed to know what goes where until their wedding day.

Anyhoo, I was awestruck by the fact that just over the internet and through a few books I learned all this stuff about Mormonism and the Mormons I'd meet (or who would accost me) seemed dumbstruck when I either mentioned something that they thought was super secret and how would I know or things they themselves didn't know.

But, as one mostly ex-mormon describes it many Mormons live in a semi-police state. As children they don't have access to unfettered internet access and are given only the positive information regarding Joe Smith. As teenagers they are still monitored and there is such rampant tattling that you are afraid to say anything that could get the local religious leaders knocking on your parents' door. So you don't discuss your doubts or share info. Even the librarians could be potential moles and your parents are monitoring your interwebs. So if you happen to be an intellectually curious Mormon teen with doubts you're SOL. If you're sent to Mission you're never alone. Your mission partner is always there aside from potty time. In college, if you go to a Mormon college (because at this point you've drunk a lot of kool-aid) the monitoring continues. Its not unlike being a member of the Duggar household.

I would think that by the time you're an adult and married you probably don't want to make waves, plus you don't want your spouse getting any of the local leaders involved either and you don't want to mess up your nice life. If you start expressing a lack of belief etc... you could lose your job and friends. Heck, if your "tithe" goes down and you're still a believer they all get up in your business too.

What this husband did was gutsy. He investigated and came to his own conclusion and then was open with his wife. I give him props for that.

I have had two Mormon friends who had problems with the church. In one case, she ended up married to an asshole who was abusive, and she was expected to take it. She left and got custody of four kids and is still "detoxing," and what's so hard for her is she still holds a lot of the beliefs, but because she was kicked out of the church, she can't participate in some of what she believes she should. But she won't go back to her ex. She is still in a place where she's not talking about a lot of things because she's trying to figure out where she even stands on certain issues. We were very close friends in high school, and it was a hard day when her mother cut off our friendship because she was getting too "rebellious" (though that girl toed the line and rarely stepped over it, but as a non-Mormon, it was easy to see she didn't know how to express herself in some ways, and so she'd inappropriately hit on teachers without realizing her behavior wasn't acceptable). It crushed me, and I found out last year, when we found each other on Facebook, that it devastated her too. She was pulled out of school and sent away.

The other I met as an adult, and she and her husband were pulling away because first off, they were being told they must have secret sins since they hadn't conceived again after their first child. Second, they weren't comfortable putting their son, who was just going into kindergarten, through some rigorous training and then send him to a private kindergarten their church had (their church had K-12). Not only could they not afford it and yet were expected to pay for it, but they weren't comfortable shoving him through a hole and to do all the spying on him when they themselves were extremely uncomfortable with it. They didn't like worrying that they could get in trouble if someone from the church saw them drinking a soda with dinner at a restaurant (caffeine isn't allowed) and reported them. They didn't like feeling like they had to sneak around to see the friends they were told they needed to cut out after they were married. She and her husband were both raised Mormon, and both were still very upset that their siblings, who'd left the church, weren't allowed to their wedding and had to wait outside with the rest of their non-Mormon friends. They both still felt bad about treating their siblings and friends like second-class citizens.

By the time she and I met, she wasn't wearing the underwear anymore, and her husband had ditches his as well. She told me a lot about the church, and had found out about the seer stones. I didn't know any of this stuff, and thought she was joking at first. Yeah, she was having such a hard time with a lot of it that she was talking to a never-been-a-Mormon about it. No fear of getting in trouble, but she also knew I wasn't going to judge her. She and her husband ultimately left the church too. Among other things, they didn't feel it would be right to try to force their son to marry a Mormon girl if he fell in love with a non-Mormon, or even another man. Over the years, we've gradually lost contact, as can happen when lives get incredibly busy and you live in separate states. I now live about five miles where she used to live, but the last I know of, she's on the other side of the country now.

Yeah, Mormonism is a lot like the rest of the fundies we snark. Yes, some are a bit more casual about it, but for the most part, it's all or nothing. It's tougher to be a casual Mormon than a casual Catholic or casual Jew. It's almost like being a Scientologist.

[QAF_Rocks]

I just don't understand how anyone can take the idea of Jesus making a special trip to America seriously.

Eh, I don't think this is so strange. A lot depends on what you're taught growing up. For the most part, Mormons are born and raised in their religion. And anyway, if people believe in supernatural things to begin with, I don't see how a story of Jesus traveling to America is any more implausible than a story about Jesus turning water into wine or casting out demons. It only seems more ridiculous because we're not used to hearing about it.

[Elle]

Prior to 1978, Mormons held to the "one drop" belief--you were "Negro" if you had even "one drop" of African blood (this is similar to Plessy v. Ferguson, where a man with one African-American great-grandmother was held to be "negro"). Even holding aside the fact that our ancestors all come out of Africa, if I'd known before 1978 what I know now about my family history, there's no way I could be Mormon. I remember hearing that the Church had to change its mind for three reasons: 1) the first temple in Brazil was ready to be opened and most of the members couldn't go through because they are mixed-race, 2) Bob Jones University v. IRS was working its way through the lower courts (and the Supreme Court upheld the revocation of the tax exemption in 1982) and 3) Ostensibly white people were doing their genealogies and finding out that their g-g-g-g-grandparents weren't white and it was causing lots of (mostly internalized) consternation. Getting rid of the bar to African-Americans was overdue but such a relief.

Is this why Mormons are so into family trees? To weed out the "icky" people?

[Loveday]

Is this why Mormons are so into family trees? To weed out the "icky" people?

No, it's so they can baptise 'by proxy' their ancestors who were so unfortunate as to have been born before Mormonism came about. This way, they can have even more of their families, going back centuries, with them in the afterlife.

As unethical as I think it is to baptise someone who isn't aware of it and can't possibly have any say in the matter, I AM grateful to the Mormons for making my genealogical research a little easier! ;)

[freejoytoo]

Eh, I don't think this is so strange. A lot depends on what you're taught growing up. For the most part, Mormons are born and raised in their religion. And anyway, if people believe in supernatural things to begin with, I don't see how a story of Jesus traveling to America is any more implausible than a story about Jesus turning water into wine or casting out demons. It only seems more ridiculous because we're not used to hearing about it.

But with Christianity in general it's vague enough not be totally disproven. Google Mormonism and it totally is!

I don't know how you can't laugh at the idea of Eden being in Missouri

[Aeryn406]

Re: ancestry - Yes x 1000! Dog bless Provo and the scanned files of the ages!

On topic: I'm so glad the couple is working through this life change together. Something that scary seems a little bearable when someone you love is right there with you. And I had to giggle a bit at her realization that they could have coffee, tea and alcohol now! Good for them! FJ should send them a Starbucks card. :)

Eta: riffle

[geniebelle6901]

I AM grateful to the Mormons for making my genealogical research a little easier!

I agree! I love my Ancestry.com subscription!

[SisiL78]

I agree! I love my Ancestry.com subscription!

I've thought about it but I don't want to send any money to them... it just encourages their behavior. I can't help thinking "you know who else kept really good records and did a lot of genealogical research? .... the Nazis". I'm not saying Mormons are Nazis, but I just can't help but make the connection.

[freejoytoo]

They did baptise Holocaust victims which is pretty bad IMO.

[SisiL78]

They did baptist Holocaust victims which is pretty bad IMO.

What made it worse for me was that they lied about it, then promised to stop, then started doing it again. When it was found out again they went through the lying, promising, and re-doing it again. They make it sound like its "rogue" Mormons doing this but these supposed rogue Mormons are using the facilities and records that they could only get through working with the church hierarchy.

People say it shouldn't affect others because these folks are dead and the Mormon rituals are bullsh*t. But, its offensive to those of us living and just sets a bad precedent.

[freejoytoo]

It's disrespectful to the dead and to their living families.

People seem to give Mormons slack because they're 'friendly'. Yeah, so friendly that they'll try and baptise Anne Frank and push Prop 8 based on some crackpot beliefs founded from an egotistical maniac.

[SisiL78]

It's disrespectful to the dead and to their living families.

People seem to give Mormons slack because they're 'friendly'. Yeah, so friendly that they'll try and baptise Anne Frank and push Prop 8 based on some crackpot beliefs founded from an egotistical maniac.

Amen. Being "friendly" and serving up jello casserole does not instantly make someone a good person nor does it make their beliefs any less noxious. If a friendly demeanor was the only criteria for goodness then the Duggars would be wonderful.

[Loveday]

I've thought about it but I don't want to send any money to them... it just encourages their behavior. I can't help thinking "you know who else kept really good records and did a lot of genealogical research? .... the Nazis". I'm not saying Mormons are Nazis, but I just can't help but make the connection.

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Mormon church actually owns Ancestry, they just share their databases. Totally open to correction on that--I just hope I'm right because I honestly don't want to contribute financially to them either. :?

As for encouraging them, I don't think anything would stop them from doing what they do. They've been at this project for decades, since long before Ancestry came along, feverishly trying to locate every person who ever existed on the planet. The popularity of 'finding your roots' has just given them more attention, that's all.

The baptism of Jewish ancestors and Holocaust victims is vile. Promising not to do it again and then reneging is unconscionable. :x

[treemom]

It is publicly traded, so it isn't owned wholly by the church, although they might hold stock. It was started by two Mormons and it purchased other lds business, etc.

The tie is strong to the church

[Loveday]

It is publicly traded, so it isn't owned wholly by the church, although they might hold stock. It was started by two Mormons and it purchased other lds business, etc.

The tie is strong to the church

Well, crap, I was really hoping I'd hear 'oh, no, Ancestry is totally independent!' Hmm. Must do some more investigating then. There are other genealogy sites out there, of course, but Ancestry is pretty darned convenient, not to mention they suckered me into a second year of membership with a 'renew your US membership and we'll throw in a year of the international plan at no extra cost!' I'd been wanting access to European records for ages, they obviously knew just where to hit me. :doh:

ETA: thanks for the info, treemom, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear! :lol:

[QAF_Rocks]

But with Christianity in general it's vague enough not be totally disproven. Google Mormonism and it totally is!

I don't know how you can't laugh at the idea of Eden being in Missouri

Well, I would laugh at the concept of the Garden of Eden in general, but the thing about culture is that one story is considered ludicrous by the mainstream, and the other isn't.

I guess my general point about Mormons is that the vast majority of them became Mormons long before the advent of Google. And by the time born-and-raised Mormons are old enough to research the origins of their religion, they have a lifetime invested in their faith. Plus they're encouraged not to doubt or investigate non-Mormon sources of information.