If Mel ends up having another girl.....

[Justme]

and has only girls, no boys. Do you think Nathan's "viewpoint" might change over the next 20-25 years..... If Sarah, Anna, and/or Mary don't marry, one of the brothers can be their "headship". If one of Nathan's daughters doesn't marry, there is no brother to care for them. Maybe Joshua would be expected to care for them. (Poor kid, only 24 hours old and already a "headship" of his older female cousins. ) Steve will most likely be gone or very "elderly". Maybe Nathan will allow for his daughters to have enough education to be able to earn a living. Either way, I can see a lot of "conflict" in Nathan's future.

[Jessica]

Hmm, now that I think about it, I hope that DOES happen so maybe Nathan will learn that women are capable of doing whatever they want to do, whether it be a stay-at-home mom or a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, a photographer, an actor, or dancer.

[kpmom]

I'm thinking once Steve is out of the way, things might change a little in the family. But, maybe it's wishful thinking.

[bananacat]

I'm thinking once Steve is out of the way, things might change a little in the family. But, maybe it's wishful thinking.

I actually agree with this and I think it will be very interesting to watch what happens to second-generation fundies after the first-generation Patriarchs start dying off. I'm especially interested to see what will happen with the Duggars. Will Smuggar be in charge of his brothers and their families? And what about when Gothard himself buys the farm?

But I think when Steve is gone, everyone will have to lighten up a little because they're just no way they could get any stricter.

[Feberin]

I actually agree with this and I think it will be very interesting to watch what happens to second-generation fundies after the first-generation Patriarchs start dying off. I'm especially interested to see what will happen with the Duggars. Will Smuggar be in charge of his brothers and their families? And what about when Gothard himself buys the farm?

But I think when Steve is gone, everyone will have to lighten up a little because they're just no way they could get any stricter.

I also think this is an interesting idea. I also wonder if having all girls will make Nathan find husbands for them more rapidly then Steve has done with his daughters. Only one of them needs to be married for there to be a male who can control things. Also if Melanie's family is more relaxed about stuff there will be relatives who might help them see that they can be more then SAHDs.

[anniebgood]

I wonder if Melanie's OB GYN is a woman or a man? How does their SAHD stereotype fit in with an educated female physician?

[Petronella7]

I think that for some of these fundies, if they end up having only girls, the parts of the Old Testament where the patriarchs have multiple wives might start looking pretty good. It's one solution, after all.

[tabitha2]

Nah, to them the only kind of marriage is one man one women for life anything else is abomination.

[Mela99]

I wonder if Melanie's OB GYN is a woman or a man? How does their SAHD stereotype fit in with an educated female physician?

Don't both sexes defraud poor fundies? Women doctors will surely turn them into tomboys and lesbians and worldy ideas. But allowing MEN up in their headship's personal property?

I honestly wonder why Boob and Steve haven't demanded a son or two go into the medical field to train to be OBGYNS. Start some fundie only practice. Buy a used ultrasound machine.

[Petronella7]

Don't both sexes defraud poor fundies? Women doctors will surely turn them into tomboys and lesbians and worldy ideas. But allowing MEN up in their headship's personal property?

I honestly wonder why Boob and Steve haven't demanded a son or two go into the medical field to train to be OBGYNS. Start some fundie only practice. Buy a used ultrasound machine.

None of the fundy kids would be accepted into any medical school in a million years. They barely have their GEDs and I can only imagine how lacking their educations are in biology or any other prerequisite.

And I still think that some fundies may start turning to polygamy within two generations. So many families seem to have more daughters than sons, and it is a time-honored way for patriarchal societies to "take care" of excess women.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The kind of scientific training necessary to go through actual medical school is just like Kryptonite for Maxwellian religion. There is just far too much exposure to critical thinking and endlessly questioning, comparing one thing to another and looking for patterns, and the need to throw out theories that don't actually predict the observed results. You simply can't start with "everything in my scriptures is literally true" and be a real scientist. Plus all that studying would be wasting time you could be spending on religion.

People talk about how evil liberal humanities degrees in the heathen leftist socialist colleges are, but I think having their kids study actual science is far more of a threat - not that it's likely to happen for a lot of them, considering that they don't go so far in math at the SOTDRT. That 6000 year old earth belief isn't going to last long, y'know?

Frumpers aside, many of the fundies we snark here don't dress as outlandishly as the Amish or black-hat Charedi but as far as their willingness (and necessity!!) to rely on outsiders for their various scientific-based professional services (doctors being the main one) they're not all that different. If everyone believed in strictly limited SOTDRT education they could not make a country on their own.

"But there are religious scientists" - yes, there are, but not so much of the strict literalist "any secular study is a waste of time" uber-fundie brand.

[NurseNell]

I wonder if Melanie's OB GYN is a woman or a man? How does their SAHD stereotype fit in with an educated female physician?

Was Mel home schooled?

[NurseNell]

In looking to find information on whether Melanie was home schooled I found this by Teri:

Nathan and Melanie had struggled with infertility for five years. When the Lord finally opened Melanie's womb

Really, he just opened her womb? I hate that expression. Maybe because my womb never did open. :cry:

[NurseNell]

Someone asked in one of the threads if Nathan and Melanie have Samaritan. The answer is yes.

http://www.khi.org/news/2011/may/23/fai ... ans-cover/

[CanadianHippie]

There is no way fundie males would be allowed to go into medicine. They'd have to study diagrams like this one http://apbrwww5.apsu.edu/thompsonj/Anat ... iagram.jpg and be defrauded.

[terranova]

There is no way fundie males would be allowed to go into medicine. They'd have to study diagrams like this one http://apbrwww5.apsu.edu/thompsonj/Anat ... iagram.jpg and be defrauded.

NIKE!

I doubt seriously fundie females spend much time examining "down there". These are the people who bathe with their knickers on.

[kunoichi66]

NIKE!

I doubt seriously fundie females spend much time examining "down there". These are the people who bathe with their knickers on.

Seriously?

[pixydust]

In looking to find information on whether Melanie was home schooled I found this by Teri:

Really, he just opened her womb? I hate that expression. Maybe because my womb never did open. :cry:

NurseNell, I hate that phrase, too and I've been pregnant 4 times. It just reeks of lack of basic knowledge of the reproductive system to me....and that the problem is always the woman's body, not the man's.

For those you know about infertility, how common is it to not be able to get pregnant for 5 years, then have 4 pregnancies? Is Melanie using meds to get pregnant?

[Angri-la]

NurseNell, I hate that phrase, too and I've been pregnant 4 times. It just reeks of lack of basic knowledge of the reproductive system to me....and that the problem is always the woman's body, not the man's.

I hate the cult of fecundity. The phrase "open and close the womb" makes me angrier than a cat in a bath. Here would be my question about that: So, why does God open my womb, put a baby in it (because my husband is just the Instrument), and then let that baby die every time? I am glad to no longer be a part of a faith which sees me only in terms of how many babies I have birthed and how clean my house is, how big my smile under glassy eyes.

I do hope the second generation knocks the infantilization and marginalization of women. Having passels of impoverished ignorant people hardly brings a movement to the next level. The First Wave Patriarchs and their brides usually have education and some acquaintance with the outside world. I think the super militants will end up on compounds like the FLDS, as the others become more moderate.

[ladypuglover]

Nah, to them the only kind of marriage is one man one women for life anything else is abomination.

Somehow I think the fundy men would be alright with have more than one wife. The abomination thing is just for things they don't want or want you to have.

[NurseNell]

For those you know about infertility, how common is it to not be able to get pregnant for 5 years, then have 4 pregnancies? Is Melanie using meds to get pregnant?

Maybe not using drugs to get pregnant but using progesterone to stay pregnant. It really depends on the cause of the infertility. Nathan could have had a varicocele repaired, that works wonders to increase the sperm count. I have a friend who needed IVF to get pregnant. She had PCOS. 8 years later she went on a diet. During those 8 years they used no birth control. She lost 40 lbs, and misses her period. She was pregnant, and shocked. A work up showed she no longer had PCOS. She had a tubal ligation after the baby was born. So who knows, I wonder if they had an infertility work-up done? I can't imagine masturbating to produce a specimen would appeal to Nathan. :oops:

[shesinsane]

I wonder if Melanie's OB GYN is a woman or a man? How does their SAHD stereotype fit in with an educated female physician?

As long as the doctor spouts forced-birth propaganda and refuses to write prescriptions for birth control, does the gender really matter? All these people need is a doctor that will tell a woman fearing a complicated 10th pregnancy that if she and/or the baby die, that's God's will.

[Justme]

I have to wonder if she had several very early miscarriages. She may not have even known she was pregnant.