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Michelle Duggar’s Take on Time Outs


Visionoyahweh

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From the arcticle:

I get down at their level, and I whisper in their ear and say, "You know what? It's not your turn. "It's brother's turn. You need to talk sweet, ask brother, 'May I please have a turn after you?'" If they're still screaming and throwing a fit I set a timer for five minutes. And each child gets a turn after five minutes. If they don't get off the bike or share the toy then they lose their turn. They learn it's all about consequence versus privilege. It's not a right. It's about cooperation and respect for each other.

That rubs me the wrong way a bit. I don't have children yet, so this is just how I remember it: The onus of learning how to play fair, wasn't on the wronged party. If I witheld a shared toy, my parents explained to me how unfair and inconsiderate I was being, not that my siblings should be sweet to me. I just don't actually see her teaching the respect she's talking about, only saying that there will be consequences if you don't do as she says.

ETA: Sorry, I forgot we're talking about the mullet here. My mistake.

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I find the most interesting part to be this line "I don't want my children to feel angry." On the surface, it's innocuous but becomes a little more sinister when coupled with the Duggars' belief in "keeping sweet". Both children and adults sometimes feel angry. That is not a bad thing. It's normal and, in a lot of cases, it's justified (such as when you realize your parents have denied you the education and skills necessary to live a productive life outside the tiny bubble of the cult you were raised in)

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In that scenario, I'm not seeing it as withholding a shared toy. If someone is playing on the bike, it is their turn. Everyone gets a turn, but you have to wait until it is your turn. Also, sometimes asking nicely would mean a sibling might share without a parent having to step in (she is talking about toddlers and pre-schoolers here). Usually, though, at that age they need some guidance on HOW to share and how to ask for a turn.

I have many issues with Michelle, this isn't one. She is helping both the child who wants a turn (by teaching to ask politely, and by teaching about taking turns and waiting for your turn) and the child who is using the toy (by teaching to take turns and not to hog the toy).

The not feeling angry and keeping sweet thing rub me up wrong.

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Let's just recognize Michelles comments for the bullshit it really is. By the time the kids are old enough to be sharing and have these kind of issues the Jslaves are actively rearing them.

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Let's just recognize Michelles comments for the bullshit it really is. By the time the kids are old enough to be sharing and have these kind of issues the Jslaves are actively rearing them.

This.

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The part about never giving in tot a child tantrum/demands, EVER. rubbed me wrong. Sometimes you have to, and sometime it's not a bad thing! She just loves the power trip of being Mommy.

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Why is someone who doesn't parent giving parenting advice? And why are people eating up her advice as gospel (19kids and counting fb page).

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The not feeling angry and keeping sweet thing rub me up wrong.

Reminds me of a talk show--was it 700 Club or something like it?--back in the '80s, or earlier. In it, a child psychologist was talking about helping children deal with anger. The host was having obvious trouble wrapping his head around the fact that a child's feeling angry could be both normal and appropriate, and kept trying to drag the conversation around to how to teach kids how "wrong" it was to be angry. The child psychologist was polite but quite frustrated.

The same show featured a pair of brain trusts who had their shorts in a knot about "inappropriate" kids' books and clucked their tongues about this one: Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book. Parts of it originally appeared in "Playboy." Wonder what they'd have said about "Go the F*** to Sleep."

Back to your regularly scheduled snark.

Edited to correct a stupid factual error.

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Let's just recognize Michelles comments for the bullshit it really is. By the time the kids are old enough to be sharing and have these kind of issues the Jslaves are actively rearing them.

Seriously, and does anyone really believe Jessa is following Michelle's ever-so-pat childrearing rules?

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The part about never giving in tot a child tantrum/demands, EVER. rubbed me wrong. Sometimes you have to, and sometime it's not a bad thing! She just loves the power trip of being Mommy.

This so hard.

I have a 2 year old and tantrum translates from toddler to adult 50% of the time as "I'm having trouble communicating, I'm little and I just don't know the rules yet". And "I'm: tired, hungry, uncomfortable,..." the other 50%. How about Mullet, if you Redirected your child? "Josiah is riding the bike, here let's play with *insert name of toy here*" oh wait, that'd mean you would have to interact at length with them. My bad.

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This so hard.

I have a 2 year old and tantrum translates from toddler to adult 50% of the time as "I'm having trouble communicating, I'm little and I just don't know the rules yet". And "I'm: tired, hungry, uncomfortable,..." the other 50%.

This times infinity. It takes more intelligence, intuition, and patience to let the toddler ride out the tantrum and calm him/herself down. Of course, what if someone observed you doing so and thought you were being An Indulgent Liberal Parent? Why, it would be all over the church in no time!

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The part about never giving in tot a child tantrum/demands, EVER. rubbed me wrong. Sometimes you have to, and sometime it's not a bad thing! She just loves the power trip of being Mommy.

I almost never give in to tantrums. I avoid giving into a tantrum unless there is really no other option, and off the top of my head I can think of very few situations where I would have to give in to a real tantrum. So I really didn't have a problem with that advice.

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I almost never give in to tantrums. I avoid giving into a tantrum unless there is really no other option, and off the top of my head I can think of very few situations where I would have to give in to a real tantrum. So I really didn't have a problem with that advice.

Amy how do you deal with tantrums?

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With my 2yr old daughter, reasoning actually works well with her. My son doesn't do nearly as well with reason; it's his way or the highway. When she throws a tantrum, I'll first remind her that she doesn't get her way by throwing a fit and to use her words. If that doesn't work, I'll use one or two short sentences of explanation (i.e. let's put your clothes on, then you can go play) and I repeat them a couple of times. She'll usually calm right down. If all bets are off, I just let her finish her tantrum and talk to her when she's done. Of course, in a restaurant, we just go outside for a reasoning talk and she calms down.

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A lot of my kids' tantrums when they were young were from hunger, exhaustion, frustration. In other words, things I should have been preventing in the first place. One of mine had very particular preferences for every little thing, and I did try to fix her sock if it was bugging her enough to make her scream. Now she is old enough to fix her own socks, so it was just not a big deal in the long run.

When the older ones bicker now, I do similar to what Michelle claims to do: tell them to go ask nicely, work it out themselves. Don't come bitching to me about someone not sharing when you have not even asked. Of course you aren't going to get a toy if you just start screaming for it. I have nothing against anger, but I do want my children to enter adulthood knowing how to deal proactively with situations.

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I am the first to admit I struggle with my kids' tantrums and difficult behaviour, but I do try to be clear and fair about punishments. I find the advice given here confusing:

"It's not for correction, because I learned early on from a book that I read, The Heart of Anger, the sorts of things kids are struggling with in their heart, and I remember thinking, "I don't want my children to feel angry. I want them to feel like I'm there for them." So I give them constructive things to do with their energy, and to learn to practice self-control.

The idea is that they think, "Wow, I feel good about myself now. I've obeyed Mommy. I've sat here for 15 minutes, read this book, calmed down, didn't have to get in trouble, but actually sat and looked at a book for 15 minutes. And now I can get up and go do something else."

I don't understand how the the 'sitting and reading a book' can be time-out but not time-out at the same time. First she says it's not for correction, but then says the child should feel good that they've obeyed her, which sort of implies an order rather than a choice. So what happens if they don't do as asked and read a book for 15 mins? What's the punishment then? Sitting with a book - oh no, just tried that. Michelle always seems to imply that she doesn't need 'real' time-out because her 'calming down' version always works. There must be many times when it doesn't work, but she never elaborates on what plan B might be.

Incidentally, I'm not sure that teaching a 2-year old to carry a stroller up the stairs sounds very safe. And if climbing on the outside of the staircase is such a no-no, why do we always see the kids doing it? Not enough time-out, methinks.

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I almost never give in to tantrums. I avoid giving into a tantrum unless there is really no other option, and off the top of my head I can think of very few situations where I would have to give in to a real tantrum. So I really didn't have a problem with that advice.

My problem with the discussion of whether or not to "give in" to a tantrum is the thought process behind what it means to think a tantrum is something to either stand your ground against or give in.

I don't like the parent vs. child dynamic there. From the child's perspective, they are not having a tantrum to manipulate you or get their way. Unless they are teenagers, they really don't have the social or emotional capacity to have a tantrum for that reason.

I don't turn tantrums into power struggles. I think it should be more about helping your child because they are having a difficult time, and life is hard for little kids. They're new to the gig, you know?

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My problem with the discussion of whether or not to "give in" to a tantrum is the thought process behind what it means to think a tantrum is something to either stand your ground against or give in.

I don't like the parent vs. child dynamic there. From the child's perspective, they are not having a tantrum to manipulate you or get their way. Unless they are teenagers, they really don't have the social or emotional capacity to have a tantrum for that reason.

I don't turn tantrums into power struggles. I think it should be more about helping your child because they are having a difficult time, and life is hard for little kids. They're new to the gig, you know?

My offspring has THANK GOD mostly gotten over the tantrum stage. It was really difficult and I often had trouble keeping my own cool.

I always tried to provide an option for them, when it came to time out. Such as "sit here for 5 minutes, or stop crying and apologize/explain what you need with words, and get up now." That way it wasn't entirely child vs. parents and they did have their own say in the matter.

Some things though--safety issues and violence--I think as a parent you really do have to lay down the law on.

What bothers me about the article specifically is that Michelle seems to imply that she disciplines the kids before they actually misbehave. That doesn't give the kids any clear sense of rules at all.

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Has anyone else seen a time-out timer on 19KAC? I don't recall ever seeing the Howler Monkeys in time-out...

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Besides leaving out the part where she isn't actually the one raising the kids, she also left out the part where they know that consequences that include physical pain are part of their history with her, and likely to be employed again.

ETA - I think this is more likely to be what she's whispering in their ears:

6510952219_ccbcae8890.jpg

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A lot of my kids' tantrums when they were young were from hunger, exhaustion, frustration. In other words, things I should have been preventing in the first place. One of mine had very particular preferences for every little thing, and I did try to fix her sock if it was bugging her enough to make her scream. Now she is old enough to fix her own socks, so it was just not a big deal in the long run.

When the older ones bicker now, I do similar to what Michelle claims to do: tell them to go ask nicely, work it out themselves. Don't come bitching to me about someone not sharing when you have not even asked. Of course you aren't going to get a toy if you just start screaming for it. I have nothing against anger, but I do want my children to enter adulthood knowing how to deal proactively with situations.

This made me smile because when I was little the seams in socks used to drive me absolutely bonkers. Like throwing a fit in the middle of the mall bonkers. One of the shoe guys and Stride Rite told my mom that kids often have much more sensitive feet than adults, so little things like sock seams will bother them. I did outgrow it, but I still don't have much patience for uncomfortable shoes... haha.

On another note - the don't get angry thing is one of my pet peeves with fundies. Anger isn't bad, but you have to learn how to express your anger appropriately (as in you can't throw a tantrum and hit people, etc). I would like to remind all fundies (we know you read here) that Jesus said, "in your anger do not sin" (paraphrase). Therefore, anger as an emotion can't be bad. Jesus got angry, so it follows that they should understand that anger is not bad. Displays of anger that hurt others are bad (like, idk, beating your kids with a rod?) not anger in and of itself.

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