Article On Submission

[debrand]

everydaymiracles.hubpages.com/hub/Why-I-Choose-to-be-a-Submissive-Wife

The young woman came from an unstable home life with an alcoholic father and a mother who nagged him.

I've always been friends with people who are older than me. Many of them come from the generation that was burning their bras and declaring equality for all women. And these friends of mine have perpetually encouraged me to learn how to "manipulate my man" so that I can get from him what I want. I learned from them how I could best withhold sex or give my husband the silent treatment. They taught me how I could "make him think it was his idea" even though whatever "it" was might be reprehensible to him. I've learned the strategies and tactics and I'm... divorced.

I believe that the number one reason that I am divorced is because I whined, and I cried, and, in that oh-so-girlish way, I had temper tantrums. My girlfriends, you see, told me that these tactics worked on men and that if I employed them, I would get what I wanted. In the end, however, what I "got" was divorced!

Ok. I call bullshit. Most of my life, I've had friends who were older then I was. None of them encouraged me to manipulate anyone, much less my husband. Whining and acting like a child was certainly not something my friends would have approved. Maybe she just picked crappy people to befriend. Also, how did she know that the women were feminist? I've found that most anti male sentiment comes from women who would never consider themselves feminists.

Her first husband had an affair.

I wasn't going to let this happen again. If I could be a "better" wife, then would my next husband be more inclined to love me, to stick by me through thick and thin? Would he be as inclined to wander from our marriage bed? I wasn't sure, but I had to find out!

I've been exploring submission for some time, and the one thing that I have discovered above anything else is the fact that wifely submission brings harmony to a home. There is no longer a power struggle between two people who both want to be "in charge." It is a confession of our dependence on one another and an acceptance of our natural roles

Going from one extreme to the other is harmful. I certainly understand why someone would think that if one action was bad, the complete opposite must be better. That isn't always true.

Mutual respect and communication helps a marriage survive.

everydaymiracles.hubpages.com/hub/Why-I-Choose-to-be-a-Submissive-Wife

edited. I meant that going from one extreme to the other is harmful

[kpmom]

Interestingly though, she didn't say these older friends were feminists, just that they were from "the generation that burned bras...".

First of all, she admits 1st hubby cheated, and "adultery is never right", but then goes right into blaming herself for his cheating. What did she do wrong, and how could she avoid this in marriage #2? Well, by full blown submission of course!

Submit, and hubby won't cheat. Simple as that.

She ends with this paragraph;

"My Submission, My Right

As my final word, I want to point out to all of you that this is my life I'm talking about. I'm not pointing at you and your relationship and saying that it is bad or that it is wrong: simply that I have made a choice to live my life in a particular way. I ask that everyone respect that and keep their personal judgments to themselves. You make your choices based on what works for you in your relationship, and please, do allow me to make mine!"

While I agree she has the right to run her marriage any way she sees fit, earlier in her post she has a yin yang symbol with the words "I Live a Biblical Marriage" over it. She can yap all she wants about her choice, she is telling other Christians who choose not to live the way she does that their marriages are not biblical.

And finally, why is there never a third choice for any of these women? It's always shrew or doormat. How about a true partnership, where each person loves and respects the other? She compares her marriage to a boss-employee relationship (guess who is who). My husband is not my boss, and I'm not his employee. A marriage is completely different than that relationship, or it certainly can be.

ETA: Oh, and her list of all the things she can do because she is submissive? She can do all of those without being submissive too.

[kb2]

I've had a few people tell me I could use sex to control my relationship. I couldn't figure out why they thought I had so much control over my own sex drive. You mean, when I want to have sex I have to abstain, or if I don't want to have sex I have to have it anyway, just to get something else I want? What I want is a healthy sex life, in which both of us enjoy what we're doing. I'm too busy using sex for that to use it for something else. Not to mention I don't think withholding/giving sex would really be that great of a barter.

(Also, I've heard it all ways: withhold sex to get what you want, and have lots of sex to get what you want. Also withhold sex before marriage, then have lots of sex during marriage to get what you want. Also also, have lots of sex before marriage to trap him into it, then withhold after being married. Most of this advice was from men. I found it all pretty creepy.)

[Kitty]

I've never actually been told to withhold/have sex to get what I want, but even watching TV you do get that impression: that sex is a tool to punish, reward, manipulate. And of course all the women have to backstab each other while the men are totally clueless or even think it's amusing. That horse shit is also, STILL, peddled in a lot of magazines for women. It's twenty fucking twelve people, wake up and get with the program.

In real life, that kind of behavior is a good way to fuck up any relationship you have. And guess what, I've already figured that out. I didn't even have to get married. If you see the other sex as PEOPLE with FEELINGS and DESIRES and all that fun stuff, you don't need to submit or be a whiny manipulative bitch. I call it, "seeing a relationship as a partnership."

It is a confession of our dependence on one another and an acceptance of our natural roles

BULLSHIT. If you're in a submissive role, the dominant SO is not dependent on you like, at all. Not for anything.

[Guest Anonymous]

I've always found the concept of 'withholding sex' as this great manipulation quite troubling. All it seems to amount to is not having sex because you don't want to have sex. Where is the great evil? What are you supposed to be doing? Having sex when you don't want it because your partner does or because you worry that otherwise you'll seem manipulative?

[2xx1xy1JD]

There was a constant feeling of dis-ease in the house and I could never quite put my finger on it.

Well, if your father was drinking to excess, don't you think that would be a likely explanation?

I think my father, in some ways, drank to escape, and I think that my mother took over control of the household because my father couldn't be relied upon (because of the drinking). They were both counter productive to their ultimate aims.

Drank to escape WHAT? Are you suggesting that the alcoholism was somehow your mother's fault - because if you are, that is complete BS. If not, your mother did what she had to do. Think of what "submission" to an alcoholic would have meant for the family.

I wasn't going to let this happen again. If I could be a "better" wife, then would my next husband be more inclined to love me, to stick by me through thick and thin? Would he be as inclined to wander from our marriage bed? I wasn't sure, but I had to find out!

If it gives you peace at night to believe this, fine, but realize that as a divorce lawyer, I have seen wonderful and submissive wives who had cheating scumbags for husbands.

Perhaps, with your background, it is a comforting fairy tale to believe that you can magically prevent bad things from happening in your marriage - like alcoholism or infidelity. The fact is that submission doesn't prevent these things. You can only look at past bad patterns, do an awful lot of checking to make sure that you really know and trust the character of the person you choose to marry, and realize that any person with free will can potentially make some horrible choices. In reality, I've seen "submission" used by a lousy spouse as an excuse to demand funds to pay for an addiction, or to claim that a wife is too demanding if she wants access to funds or to information that could reveal the affair.

I believe that the number one reason that I am divorced is because I whined, and I cried, and, in that oh-so-girlish way, I had temper tantrums. My girlfriends, you see, told me that these tactics worked on men and that if I employed them, I would get what I wanted. In the end, however, what I "got" was divorced!

Actually, the number one reason that you are divorced is because your husband was having sex with your best friend.

That said, crying, whining, nagging and manipulation aren't the characteristics of an egalitarian marriage based on mutual respect. If anything, they are tactics used by a spouse who feels powerless. When spouses love and respect one another, and are considered equal partners, there is no need for that behavior.

From the time that God created Adam in the Garden of Eden, he had a purpose. He designed His first man in His image, and He created man with an authority. Man had dominion over the earth, and it was for man to tend the plants and name the animals. He had a special position of authority and was given the ability to make decisions and to choose between right and wrong. Man was given one rule to follow, and the choice to follow it in obedience to God or not.

Find a good word-by-word translation of Genesis, Chapter 1 with transliteration and footnotes. You will discover that two separate Hebrew words are both translated as "man" - Ha-Adam and Ish. Ish is specifically male, while ha-adam simply refers to the first human created from the earth. It was ha-adam (in other words, all of humanity) that was created in the Divine Image.

"It is not good that man should be alone" and therefore He created Eve as a Help Meet for Adam. Eve was created to stand beside Adam, to support him and to build him up.

Again, get a word-by-word translation, transliteration and Hebrew-English dictionary. Help Meet is literally translated as "help-opposite", suggesting that perhaps complementary personalities should oppose each other, in order to ultimately help by providing balance.

There was balance to the environment in the Garden of Eden. Man had authority and woman followed the authority of man. Life in the Garden of Eden was beautiful until Eve fell victim to temptation.

If you are going to quote the Bible, at least read it first. There is nothing about Eve following Adam's authority in the Garden of Eden. The "he shall rule over you" curse came after, when they were expelled from Eden.

I don't "have" to go to work every day. I have the choice to stay at home with my daughter and educate her at home as I have chosen to do.

I don't have to shoulder the responsibility of sheltering and feeding my family. That falls to my husband. My job is simpler: appreciate him and support him in his effort.

That's not necessarily about submission - that's a joint decision made with your current husband. Those of us in egalitarian marriages make joint decsions about what works for our own families all the time. Consider this, though: what happens if your husband, to whom you are submissive, turns out to be alcoholic, unfaithful or abusive? You could still be in a position of "having" to support your family

.

As my final word, I want to point out to all of you that this is my life I'm talking about. I'm not pointing at you and your relationship and saying that it is bad or that it is wrong: simply that I have made a choice to live my life in a particular way. I ask that everyone respect that and keep their personal judgments to themselves. You make your choices based on what works for you in your relationship, and please, do allow me to make mine!

Hey, your life, your choice. Just don't suggest in a public forum that being submissive is likely to prevent a husband from drinking or cheating, or that G-d actually wants wives to be submissive based on a Biblical text that has a bad translation or that you are simply quoting incorrectly, or suggest that having a non-submissive marriage means nagging, crying, whining or manipulating.

[alba]

I've always found the concept of 'withholding sex' as this great manipulation quite troubling. All it seems to amount to is not having sex because you don't want to have sex. Where is the great evil? What are you supposed to be doing? Having sex when you don't want it because your partner does or because you worry that otherwise you'll seem manipulative?

There's a difference between not having sex because you don't want it and not having sex because your partner does want it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a couple not having sex because, for whatever reason, one partner doesn't want it. The manipulation is in the latter, when, rather than having sex when the couple wants it, one person will withhold it to get what s/he wants and then provide it as a "reward".

[TXDuck]

And finally, why is there never a third choice for any of these women? It's always shrew or doormat. How about a true partnership, where each person loves and respects the other?

I've noticed that in pretty much all fundie relationships. It's very black/white. You're either, as you say, a shrew or a doormat. You're either doomed heathen or a "Bible Believing*" Christian. You're either modest or a harlot. They can't seem to handle any gray at all. It would be fascinating if they'd just keep their crackpot ideas to themselves.

Mild tangent on the subject of respect for one's partner: They also seem to leave no room for real respect, at least if you're female. If a culture has decided that one sex, simply because of their sex, is undeserving of respect, can you truly respect a male in that culture? How could you tease apart the fear of reprisal from outward signs of respect?

*This is a big theological fail I've noticed over and over again in fundie circles. "I believe in the Bible!" Well, you shouldn't, from a Christian point of view. You should read the Bible and believe in God. But the actual God in fundieland seems almost beside the point.

[crassy]

Here's what I read:

I had some really shitty people for friends and I gave into their peer pressure. Now I am going to blame everything bad that happens to me on the feminists because I can't take responsibility for my own actions.

[Peas n carrots]

everydaymiracles.hubpages.com/hub/Why-I-Choose-to-be-a-Submissive-Wife

The young woman came from an unstable home life with an alcoholic father and a mother who nagged him.

Well duh, of course your marriage is going to fail when you act like a 5 year old and not as an adult. I admit my mother gave terrible advice when it came to men, and it's good that I ended up being able to figure it out for myself eventually. So quit blaming everyone but yourself, and act like an adult for once!

[Elle]

When I was in my early 20's, some women's magazines (you know the ones I mean) advocated things like withholding sex to get your way, and had tricks to use to get a man to confess to doing something wrong when you have no reason to think he did anything wrong. Of course these magazines routinely had (and I think still do) articles on how to tell if he's cheating, and something as simple as he's starting to show more affection was taken to mean he's cheating and feeling guilty. Funny, the guys who I've been with who cheated her LESS affectionate. Too bad I was still believing that those magazines wouldn't have been around decades if they were full of bad info. One of the three rags finally folded, but the other two are still going strong, and the headlines on the covers routinely piss me off.