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The War On Baby Girls In America


debrand

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I haven't watched the entire video but I have read through some of the comments.

This might be a minority view here but I don't think that there should be laws that prevent abortions based on gender. Parents of unwanted children, often abuse those children. The key to preventing sex selection for abortion is education. Make it possible for women to have access to education and employment on the same level as men. That way, women will be as highly valued as men.

I've watched the entire video now. First, the woman can not perform an abortion. She is sending the patient to doctors who might perform an abortion but she admits that many won't after the 16th week. I wonder if the right is going to try to claim that being prochoice is a war against women

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Is sex-selective abortion that common in the US? :?

I agree that it's a symptom of a much larger problem, and one that pro-lifers are willing to perpetuate without realizing it. If they have their way, sex-selective abortion will be much more common.

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Haven't watched it either, but I'm not sure you would be in the minority - for instance, I don't like that sex-selective abortions happen, but I think it's better to work on the causes than legislate on the effects.

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Is sex-selective abortion that common in the US? :?

I agree that it's a symptom of a much larger problem, and one that pro-lifers are willing to perpetuate without realizing it. If they have their way, sex-selective abortion will be much more common.

I don't think that sex selective abortion is common here.

Many of the right's views make it more difficult for poor people to function which, of course, makes abortion more likely. IF they really cared about lowering the abortion rate, they would provide free birth control, sex education for the young, free day care and health care.

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This might be a minority view here but I don't think that there should be laws that prevent abortions based on gender.

I am in agreement. I support a woman's choice to end a pregnancy for whatever reason she wants. I may not agree with that reason but I am loathe to support a law that restricts or legislates reproduction in any way, shape, or form.

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IF they really cared about lowering the abortion rate, they would provide free birth control, sex education for the young, free day care and health care.

THIS! If you want to really prevent abortion, stop denying that abstinence only programs aren't working and offer all of the above. The stats speak for themselves.

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+1. It's an issue with which I have wrestled, but ultimately, trying to legislate against sex-selective abortion opens up far too many doors to making all abortion illegal. What it will lead to is all women being interrogated about their reasons and deciding which is a "good enough" reason and which is not.* However, it's a very difficult issue, and it certainly gives the anti-choice side a good deal of fodder. I could see this issue becoming an increasing part of their strategy in the coming years. Just imagine Ray Comfort on the street: "Do you support the abortions of baby girls? No? Then what makes other abortions ok?" etc.

*I don't know remember the title, but there is a great Milan Kundera story (or novel, not sure which) that has a scene of a couple being interrogated about their reasons for abortion in Communist Czechoslovakia. It was perfectly legal, yet before the woman could do it, they got a lecture on how many infertile couples would love to be in their position and how they had a duty to reproduce for the State, etc.

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I'm going to repeat some of my comments from the thread on the Toronto Star article about the possibility of sex-selective abortions in Toronto.

First, if you want to have more control over pregnancy testing, counselling, ultrasounds and abortions - create a fully-funded, comprehensive health care system!

Second, recognize the particular dynamics at work in many of these cases. For example, if you have a wife who was brought over from India and has not yet received full citizenship, and if the husband's mother is living in the home, ruling the roost and DEMANDING that there be only a boy baby, you are dealing with coercion, not choice.

Third, develop a strategy to combat the coercion. There could be a poster campaign with baby girls, and a number to call if women are being bullied and need support. The campaign would be multilingual, as would the support staff, and there would be legal and social work assistance to help women deal with issues of immigration, family law, restraining orders, emergency housing, child care, family counselling, etc.

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I left some comments under the video. Chances are I won't change anyone's mind but if I can get someone to realize that abortion rights might be more complicated then killing cute, fully formed babies, that is enough. Yeah, I really think that some prolifers view fetuses the same as newborn babies.

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Is sex-selective abortion that common in the US? :?

I agree that it's a symptom of a much larger problem, and one that pro-lifers are willing to perpetuate without realizing it. If they have their way, sex-selective abortion will be much more common.

It's not common, from my reading. Jezebel's refute seems good, and, paraphrasing from that:

http://jezebel.com/5913918/can-anti+cho ... e-abortion

You can't really make an accurate sex-determination until after 20 weeks.

" so few abortions in the US occur after the 20th week that even if every single one of them were the result of sex-selection, only 1.5% of pregnancy terminations would occur at a time when sex selection was even possible. Additionally, 77% of Americans surveyed think that sex selective abortion is wrong — they're hardly clamoring to abort in the 23rd week because they want a Jr instead of an -ette."

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Now the anti-choicers are claiming to be pro-woman, eh? What next?

I'm against legislating against sex-selective abortion simply because I'm pro-choice, which means I, and governing bodies, have no right to decide whether or not a woman's reasons for seeking an abortion are legitimate. I disagree with sex-selective abortions, but I also don't think that stopping them stops the problem, which is that boys and men are more valued in many cultures than girls and women, as the Jezebel article linked above notes:

And finally, as Planned Parenthood pointed out in its statement following the release of this video, even if sex-selective abortion were a problem in the US, interfering with women's access to safe, legal abortion isn't going to fix anything — leading health organizations "do not believe that curtailing access to abortion services is a legitimate means of addressing sex selection, and are clear that gender bias can only be resolved by addressing the underlying conditions that lead to it."
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It absolutely drives me up the wall how anti-choicers fail to see that legislation/prohibition cannot prevent women from making abortion decisions. If (and that's a big IF) sex-selective abortions are happening at any statistically significant rate in North America, you will not stop them by outlawing them. Women who are being coerced by partners, mothers-in-law, or their parents to abort a specific sex will do so, whether they have to lie to an OB about their reasons for aborting or do it themselves at home.

If these anti-choicers were really interested in the promotion of women in society, they would work against the institutionalized oppression and misogyny that creates the idea that boy babies are better than girls. But they don't actually give two fucks about women- they just want more live fetuses.

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THIS! If you want to really prevent abortion, stop denying that abstinence only programs aren't working and offer all of the above. The stats speak for themselves.

Yeah, but the problem is that these people do not like facts. They don't care about statistics. They only care about ideological purity. Like we saw with Zsu, the way to help a woman with children she can't afford to care for is to blame her for having sex in the first place. In their minds, the only reason abstinence-only doesn't work is because the kids aren't good enough to follow it. And rather than mitigate the results, they shrug their shoulders and say "Well it SHOULD have worked," and just keep on with it.

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+1. It's an issue with which I have wrestled, but ultimately, trying to legislate against sex-selective abortion opens up far too many doors to making all abortion illegal. What it will lead to is all women being interrogated about their reasons and deciding which is a "good enough" reason and which is not.* However, it's a very difficult issue, and it certainly gives the anti-choice side a good deal of fodder. I could see this issue becoming an increasing part of their strategy in the coming years. Just imagine Ray Comfort on the street: "Do you support the abortions of baby girls? No? Then what makes other abortions ok?" etc.

*I don't know remember the title, but there is a great Milan Kundera story (or novel, not sure which) that has a scene of a couple being interrogated about their reasons for abortion in Communist Czechoslovakia. It was perfectly legal, yet before the woman could do it, they got a lecture on how many infertile couples would love to be in their position and how they had a duty to reproduce for the State, etc.

That sounds like something they'd love. Slavery is Freedom!

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Sex-selective abortion might not be common but isn't there a growing number of people going to IVF clinics to have the girl sperm picked out from the boy sperm so they can increase their chances of having whatever gender they want?

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Huh, I didn't watch the video, just read the comments here. I am surprised female babies are not revered. We were told in every respect to expect a boy because no one in America wanted sons. Every foster care or adoptive class we have been to stresses that you will most likely not get a girl in the American adoption system because people keep their daughters, but don't want their sons. It's interesting to hear people saying the exact opposite. I shall go do some research now because I'm interested.

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I am in agreement. I support a woman's choice to end a pregnancy for whatever reason she wants. I may not agree with that reason but I am loathe to support a law that restricts or legislates reproduction in any way, shape, or form.

This.

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Huh, I didn't watch the video, just read the comments here. I am surprised female babies are not revered. We were told in every respect to expect a boy because no one in America wanted sons. Every foster care or adoptive class we have been to stresses that you will most likely not get a girl in the American adoption system because people keep their daughters, but don't want their sons. It's interesting to hear people saying the exact opposite. I shall go do some research now because I'm interested.

There was a poll last year that said Americans preferred baby boys

http://www.livescience.com/14757-americ ... -boys.html

The preference for boys over girls is driven by men, 49 percent of whom said they'd want a son. Only 22 percent said they'd prefer a daughter. Women, in contrast, showed no significant preference, with 31 percent preferring a boy and 32 percent preferring a girl.

But the thing is, I also have never gotten the feeling that baby boys were preferred. I think most people going though fertility treatments want a girl, but I can't find a source on that.

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Sex-selective abortion might not be common but isn't there a growing number of people going to IVF clinics to have the girl sperm picked out from the boy sperm so they can increase their chances of having whatever gender they want?

Potentially - but what would be the harm in that?

In the United States, I imagine that it would be done to avoid sex-linked genetic diseases like hemophilia, or in situations where a family is looking for the opposite of what they already have. Generally speaking, Americans don't strongly favor having children of one gender over another.

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There was a poll last year that said Americans preferred baby boys

http://www.livescience.com/14757-americ ... -boys.html

But the thing is, I also have never gotten the feeling that baby boys were preferred. I think most people going though fertility treatments want a girl, but I can't find a source on that.

I'd imagine that the families which would place a child in foster care or for adoption would be less likely to have an actively-involved father, so any male preference for a Jr. wouldn't be a factor.

I hadn't realized that there was a significant gender gap in domestic adoptions. I wonder if any part of that is subconscious fear of boys on the part of foster or adoptive parents? In a heterosexual two-parent family with biological kids, a big strong son can be the Jr. "just like Dad", while a big, strong boy with an unknown or uncertain genetic background may be seen as a threat.

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*snip*

But the thing is, I also have never gotten the feeling that baby boys were preferred. I think most people going though fertility treatments want a girl, but I can't find a source on that.

I know I've read that.

(I did find a source for an abstract that there may be inadvertant sex selection in IVF: http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/conten ... 2992.short)

*on my soapbox a moment*

I do dislike sex/gender selection because it's only relevant if one deals in stereotypes.

Wanting a girl to 'dress up and do girly things with' or a boy to 'rough and tumble and do boy-y things with' doesn't work when you accept that girls are not innately X and boys are not innately Y.

*stopping my preaching to choir*

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There was a poll last year that said Americans preferred baby boys

http://www.livescience.com/14757-americ ... -boys.html

But the thing is, I also have never gotten the feeling that baby boys were preferred. I think most people going though fertility treatments want a girl, but I can't find a source on that.

Interesting article.. and while it is interesting, I don't think you can use that study to state what American's prefer in terms of children. It completely bypassed the idea that 32% of people said it didn't matter. It made it seem as if those people didn't want a girl either... which "doesn't matter" means either and a girl is perfectly acceptable, just as a boy is.

Also the sample size on that study makes me wonder what they were thinking. The sample size is 1020 people in America... America is a nation of 313,641,073 (source: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html). So this study took the opinion of so few (seriously, not even a percentage my computer calculator is willing to give me an honest number about) and decided that is what American's prefer. IT gives no controls or any other information that is useful to understand a study like this.

All of that said, my research is coming up empty on anything better or more accurate. I also agree with your last statement, but cannot find any information to support that either.. other than "I know a few people, read a few blogs.. and they all wanted a girl!" which is not evidence! lol.

(I want to point out I'm not attacking you or angry or anything. Merely pointing out I don't like that article with it's claims, all while not being able to provide something better :). Please don't take anything I've said as an attack on you.)

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Weeks ago Planned Parenthood knew something was up, that Live Action and their ilk were planning something. This is what they were working on.

This won't change anyone's views on abortion, forced birthers will point to this as proof Planned Parenthood hates girl babies, pro choicers can see through the lies and know it's a load of what's normally found in diapers.

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Interesting article.. and while it is interesting, I don't think you can use that study to state what American's prefer in terms of children. It completely bypassed the idea that 32% of people said it didn't matter. It made it seem as if those people didn't want a girl either... which "doesn't matter" means either and a girl is perfectly acceptable, just as a boy is.

Also the sample size on that study makes me wonder what they were thinking. The sample size is 1020 people in America... America is a nation of 313,641,073 (source: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html). So this study took the opinion of so few (seriously, not even a percentage my computer calculator is willing to give me an honest number about) and decided that is what American's prefer. IT gives no controls or any other information that is useful to understand a study like this.

All of that said, my research is coming up empty on anything better or more accurate. I also agree with your last statement, but cannot find any information to support that either.. other than "I know a few people, read a few blogs.. and they all wanted a girl!" which is not evidence! lol.

(I want to point out I'm not attacking you or angry or anything. Merely pointing out I don't like that article with it's claims, all while not being able to provide something better :). Please don't take anything I've said as an attack on you.)

No anger on my part! I totally agree with you that that poll isn't much to work with. Because yeah, there's just not a lot of coverage of this topic in America.

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Sex-selective abortion might not be common but isn't there a growing number of people going to IVF clinics to have the girl sperm picked out from the boy sperm so they can increase their chances of having whatever gender they want?

I'm 99.99% sure you can't determine the "sex" of a sperm without destroying it (and even then I'm not convinced - sperm are tiny and you need a decent tissue sample to analyse DNA), so I think what you're referring to is people picking and choosing which embryos to insert.

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