Someone asked for it: Sproul, Jr., et.al., topic

[MamaJunebug]

Mrs. Sproul has passed away and is in Heaven. I pray her children are are receiving the love and support they need - so incredibly sad to think of little ones, momma-less. I also pray that her widower, R. C. Jr., is healing in all ways necessary.

His bereavement doesn't erase the facts of the troubled past he and others have had in their leadership roles. To discuss, or not, on FJ? I honestly gave the Q some thought before searching for recent info on his ministry.

There doesn't seem to be a lot, post-2006 or so (at least, not on my mobile-device searches). The controversy surrounding him may or may not be instructive and give insights into patriarchy, theonomy & dominionism.

In case Miss Darby is reading - or anybody for whom RC Jr is a real person and not just a name in recent historical events, here's my aim in beginning this topic: to examine the controversy in hopes of learning more about how the p/t/d leadership works and why it succeeds or fails. I'm not interested in personally bashing a guy who's been left w 8 children and no wife, who has (as we all do) his own set of challenges and demons. If that happens, well, it is the Internet. I have great respect for the blogger at Under Much Grace, whose life has been disarrayed because of the actions of men like this; if she or others take things much more personally and speak out, it's not for me to judge.

That hairily long disclaimer disclaimed, here's one of the sites I found. The name McDonald appears, IIRC. There are more, but this is all I can offer now.

http://stpeter4.blogspot.com/search?upd ... lts=13&m=1

[LilMissMetaphor]

I'm not interested in personally bashing a guy who's been left w 8 children and no wife, who has (as we all do) his own set of challenges and demons.

I'm interested in why he is letting (making?) his daughter raise the rest of his kids.

From Darby's FB:

Mondays...what is there to be said? Mondays consist of the two year old spilling toilet water all over the bathroom floor, spilling ordinary water all over the kitchen floor, crunching up his snack of tortilla chips and throwing them up in the air like confetti, with a shout of glee, taking every single toy in his possession and strewing them all over the house, taking off his diaper 37,000 times, and so much more. But! He also gave me "tisses" and squealed with joy when I took him outside to watch the airplane overhead, and helped clean up the tortilla chips for about 25 seconds, which is a new record. :D So I guess they're not so bad, in the long run.

[Elle]

In a nutshell, what's the history on this family?

[MamaJunebug]

LilMissMetaphor ... well ... ;) ... at least he hasn't married up with the tornado widow already. .... Tongue totally in cheek, there.

Elle, the bare bones of the family history - TTBOMK - are these:

R.C. Sproul, Sr., is a successful (wealthy) and well respected evangelical preacher/teacher.

His son, Jr., follows in his footsteps but his own history is dogged by controversy: financial malfeasance, probable alcohol dependency (there's a home made video of Jr. while evidently under the influence - it's painful to watch) and IIRC doctrinal irregularities.

Along the way, Jr. reportedly has said some pretty stupid-arse things: calling his wife - the mother of their 6 or 7 natural-born children - "barren" after surgery that left her infertile. My observer-from-afar diagnosis is that he's tried to emulate his dad and, not quite measuring up, has gotten himself into some pretty lamentable situations.

I guess my interest in the whole sorry story is the patriarchal community's response to the situations.

[Cordial]

It's very interesting to me that he has blogged about "allowing himself" [link=http://www.ligonier.org/blog/forty-days-mourning/]40 days of active mourning[/link]. He has mentioned Denise since then, and still seems to be experiencing acute grief in some posts, but the cynical part of me always wondered if he was mostly giving himself permission to become available to a new courtship after 40 days.

(Oh, and I'm a mostly-lurker but I have a personal interest in this one because I know some members and former members of the church he founded.)

[silvia]

I don't know all that much about the history of Sproul, Jr.'s indiscretions, but I do find myself wondering about his kids from time to time, especially Darby, who showed up here last fall to chastise FJ for speculating about her father's future remarriage, then promptly disappeared. What do Darby and the others make of their dad's falls from grace? Does the controversy (if they know about it) cause them to question the mindset they were raised with? Or do they just push down any doubts they might have, rationalizing that such renegade thoughts are the work of Satan? I thought it was curious that Darby never responded to anyone here after her initial drive-by posting.

[Creaky Mom]

http://www.parentingwithpurpose.net/ind ... 5&Itemid=1

They have documents and links under "Popular" in the upper right hand corner.

It follows one family's experience with R.C Sproule Jr. and his church.

In the end Sproule Jr. was defrocked.

[Creaky Mom]

We discussed some of it here back in Oct.

http://www.freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3861

I used to subscribe to his father's Tabletalk. Jr. always had a blurb on one page. He came across hardline Calvinist and always pushing boundaries. He wrote about his family's life choices but made it seem like everybody had to live that way.

[MamaJunebug]

Whew.

Someone posted that RC Sproul Sr had his own set of scandal and researching it, I came upon this

http://vancetribe.blogspot.com/2006/10/ ... lence.html

Seems Jr.'s apple didn't fall far from the tree. I've edited the subject line of this topic to reflect it. I've heard "expanding your mind" or whatever Sr.'s program is called but haven't paid attention to it.

These people sure give Christianity a heckova bad name, black eye, what-have-you. As a Christian, I'm getting irritated all over again at how people misuse their status within [sic] my faith.

[Creaky Mom]

MJB,

This is so typical of the YRR groups. People in mainstream church really have no idea how great they have it unless they've wandered into one of these ultra authoritarian groups. Go over to Wartburg Watch (they were apparently hacked this past week but are slowly getting back up) and find out the latest and the meanest. :violin: