Why do fundies idealise Little Women so much

[tabitha2]

The story goes people kept bugging her to put Jo and Laurie together and Alcott was not having it-She wrote in her journal she was not going to do that to please anybody :) This is from someone on TV tropes but it explains it well

Alcott had her own reasons for this. Her father had high ideas and forced the family to live in a commune and try and be self-sufficient while he played philosopher all day. In order to prevent her family from starving, she wrote Little Women which actually was only the first half of Little Women as we know it today. It was a great success and so her publishers pushed her for another. Fans particularly pressured her to find husbands for the little women, and to get Jo and Laurie together. However the book was very much based on Alcott's own family, with Jo based on herself. Alcott wanted Jo, like herself, to remain an independent unmarried woman who earned her living through writing. However, with her family still starving, she had no other choice but to write the sequel Good Wives, but refused to let Laurie and Jo get together.

[MamaJunebug]

The story goes people kept bugging her to put Jo and Laurie together and Alcott was not having it-She wrote in her journal she was not going to do that to please anybody :) This is from someone on TV tropes but it explains it well

Well, there's our answer, y'all: Alcott's father was an idealist whose family followed his dictates at the very real risk of homelessness and near-starvation -- but he had a vision, and he insisted they follow him, and they did (had no other options).

Even if the patriarchialists don't admit this, or even if they aren't aware, they're somehow attracted to old Alcott and his despotic behavior as a fellow traveler, one of their kind.

I know, it's a stretch. ;) And as Alcott was an unyielding abolitionist (his school basically failed bcz he would not reject a student of African descent) his liberal leanings would trouble some folk on the opposite balance. I dunno, everything old is new again ? I need an alcoholic beverage. It *is* a national holiday, after all!

:)

[marmalade]

I'm a UU, and, according to what I've read, the Alcotts did associate themselves with Unitarianism. Transcendentalism was more a philosophy than a religious affiliation. (See her work "Transcendental Wild Oats," which discusses her parents and the commune.)

Thanks for the addition of the Alcotts' connection to UU. If they were really religious, it would have been the best fit with Emerson's philosophies. It's also important to remember that Alcott was pretty much pressured to marry Jo off. PBS did a very thorough special (not sure if it was American Experience or Masters) that dealt with her conflicts as she sold herself for those 30 pieces of silver to save her own aging family.

[Lady]

I've read somewhere that Anne of Green Gables was originally a sunday school lesson. You can see it in how the book is laid out, every chapter has Anne getting into some sort of trouble and learning her lesson. So that explains that one.

As for Little Women, I have no idea.

[pixydust]

Anna became the idolized Vision forum women-She married upper middle class,and did not do much beside be a good wife and say wise gentle things to her many children while her maid slash cook took actual care of them.

I adore Anne Of Green Gables, but I was always bugged how Anne changed after she had kids, to the point that she was no longer the same character. She lost all of the spunkiness that she kept through her young adult years, even in the beginning of her marriage.

[Wolfie]

I adore Anne Of Green Gables, but I was always bugged how Anne changed after she had kids, to the point that she was no longer the same character. She lost all of the spunkiness that she kept through her young adult years, even in the beginning of her marriage.

She never seemed to recover from the stillbirth of her first child.

But I also wonder if part of it was because of L.M. Montgomery's unhappy marriage, as well as the fact that she also didn't enjoy writing the continued sequels.

[tabitha2]

I adore Anne Of Green Gables, but I was always bugged how Anne changed after she had kids, to the point that she was no longer the same character. She lost all of the spunkiness that she kept through her young adult years, even in the beginning of her marriage.

I know right.I guess she had to write for the times and her audience.Her becoming a proto feminist or at least those leanings would have been more in character but would have caused controversy By that time Montgomery had long ago got tired of all things Anna and just wrote to shut up fans.She had problems in real life and making social statements was to much effort.

[Wolfie]

Tabitha2, I'm curious as to where you are from. I had a relative named Anne, but she was called Anna by other friends and family members from Eastern Europe.

[tabitha2]

Texas but from Polish Decent :) I've just always called her Anna without noticing, don't really know why.I was posting on another board on this subject and got called out on that, actually.I Will start being careful now.

[DarkAnts]

The girls do try to live pilgrims progress in the book.

[lilith]

Theres a bit in Little Men where Jo and the Professor cut one of the boys tongue with a pair of scissors for lying. That always freaked me out, but I can see the fundies seeing it as a "good moral lesson". They are pretty heavy on corporal punishment in other parts too - i know the mother pulls Amy out of school because she doesn't approve of her being beaten, but in other parts corporal punishment is included without comment or even mentioned positively.

[Hane]

Theres a bit in Little Men where Jo and the Professor cut one of the boys tongue with a pair of scissors for lying. That always freaked me out, but I can see the fundies seeing it as a "good moral lesson". They are pretty heavy on corporal punishment in other parts too - i know the mother pulls Amy out of school because she doesn't approve of her being beaten, but in other parts corporal punishment is included without comment or even mentioned positively.

NO. They never did that--it was the Professor's GRANDMOTHER who did that to HIM to punish him for lying when he was a child. In the scene where he mentions this, he tells the child that it was his (Prof. Bhaer's) fault for not having been a good teacher, and asks the child to smack his (Bhaer's) hand with a ruler. The kid bursts into tears and can't do it.

The only case of corporal punishment that actually happened to a child in the books was mentioned in "Little Men." After Nan wandered away from the others and got lost during an outing, Jo tells her about the time that she (Jo) ran away from home, or wandered off, and was whipped by her mother. She told her mother, "You deserve to be whipped as much as I do, for losing your temper," and her mother stopped instantly. Marmee tied Jo to a couch with a string (something like a leash) and hung up her destroyed little shoes in front of her. (This mirrored an incident from Alcott's own life.) Jo did the same "time-out" thing with Nan, but sat and talked with her during the time she was being punished.

Trust me, peeps--I know these books practically verbatim.

[tropaka]

L.M. Alcott stated she she hated publishing the stuff and said she did so for cash. So, I'm guessing she watered down her up bringing substantially. Do these fundies know that her father/family was involved in a failed socialist experiment?

[Hane]

L.M. Alcott stated she she hated publishing the stuff and said she did so for cash. So, I'm guessing she watered down her up bringing substantially. Do these fundies know that her father/family was involved in a failed socialist experiment?

And that her EMPLOYED mother (one of the first professional social workers on record in New England) managed to keep the family fed?

Alcott did "pretty up" her childhood for the anecdotes in "Little Women," but admitted that it was intended for a young audience. In books like "Work" and "Hospital Tales," the content is much grittier. She published sensationalistic romance stories like "A Long Fatal Love Chase" under a pseudonym--she enjoyed writing them, but wasn't especially proud of them; they were kind of a money-making guilty pleasure for her.

[lilith]

NO. They never did that--it was the Professor's GRANDMOTHER who did that to HIM to punish him for lying when he was a child. In the scene where he mentions this, he tells the child that it was his (Prof. Bhaer's) fault for not having been a good teacher, and asks the child to smack his (Bhaer's) hand with a ruler. The kid bursts into tears and can't do it.

The only case of corporal punishment that actually happened to a child in the books was mentioned in "Little Men." After Nan wandered away from the others and got lost during an outing, Jo tells her about the time that she (Jo) ran away from home, or wandered off, and was whipped by her mother. She told her mother, "You deserve to be whipped as much as I do, for losing your temper," and her mother stopped instantly. Marmee tied Jo to a couch with a string (something like a leash) and hung up her destroyed little shoes in front of her. (This mirrored an incident from Alcott's own life.) Jo did the same "time-out" thing with Nan, but sat and talked with her during the time she was being punished.

Trust me, peeps--I know these books practically verbatim.

You're right, my bad. Remembered it when I read your post. It really did freak me out, and when I reread the books I skipped over that bit.

[SisiL78]

Is there an FJ Book Club?! I have tried and failed to find a book club in my neck of the woods.... they always start out strong but then people stop showing up :-( (even tried starting my own!)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Some of Anne's spunkiness gets passed down to her youngest child, Rilla, in Rilla of Ingleside. That book also deal with the emerging women's suffrage movement, as Rilla wishes that she could vote.

Yes, Anne gets tamed....but that's probably a realistic fate. When we first meet her, she's a young girl of 11. She experiences the deaths of loved ones, takes on a great deal of responsibility, and grows up. Laura Ingalls goes through the same thing - she's this carefree rebel in the earlier books, but The First Four Years is just depressing as her spunk and hopes and dreams and romance just seem to die during the early years of her marriage.

[3 is enough]

Another thing about the Anne of Green Gables books is that they were not written in chronological order.

Anne of Ingleside, where she is just "mother" and loses a lot of her spunkiness, was the last book written, in 1939, 3 years before LM Montgomery's death. At that point she was fed up with Anne, and quite depressed in her own life. She was profoundly affected by World War I, which is quite evident in Rilla of Ingleside. The prospect of another war (Canada was in from Day 1), and the fact that her sons were of age to serve, although I don't know if they ever did, probably had a detrimental effect on someone already suffering from depression.

[tabitha2]

You know what what be perfect for them?-Five little peppers and How they grew.That book is the closest to Mainstream Moody Books you can get.

[Mela99]

I felt kind of the same way about Little House on the Prairie. I know they love that series. But Laura got a job, Mary went to school, etc...

[SisiL78]

I felt kind of the same way about Little House on the Prairie. I know they love that series. But Laura got a job, Mary went to school, etc...

They just don't go that far in the books I'm sure. I wonder how high their reading comprehension is. Those Moody books, if they are representative of the fundy lit out there are horribly written. I'm a terrible writer, I have zero literary imagination but I could easily churn out a better fundy book than that.

I wonder also whether or not they would read Cheaper by the Dozen or All of a Kind Family. CBTD is non-fiction about a large family but the parents are PhDs and Mom works as an industrial engineer. AofaKF is about a more "traditional" family but they are Jewish and live in an urban environment... I'm betting the humanization of non-Christian people would be a no-no.

I'm honestly having a hard time putting together a list in my head of acceptable fundy books. Maybe some of Jane Austen's stuff, although Dad is usually dead or henpecked in her novels... that can't be good for teaching women to be under a man's jurisdiction. Nothing by a Bronte sister. Maybe the early Little House books, and the later Anne books. Cranford by Gaskell, but her other stuff might be too racy. Nothing by M. Atwood or G. Eliot. Its really truly difficult. I can't even see the Bible as being approved reading material, too much sex and murder.

Is anyone up for putting together a fundy approved reading list????

[tabitha2]

POLLYANNA!

We had some very snarky discussion of Elsie Dinsmore a while back-They really love that.

[LilMissMetaphor]

You know what what be perfect for them?-Five little peppers and How they grew.That book is the closest to Mainstream Moody Books you can get.

Incidentally, my dad always irreverently referred to this book as: Five Little Peckers And How They Grew.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I felt kind of the same way about Little House on the Prairie. I know they love that series. But Laura got a job, Mary went to school, etc...

Not only that but she informed the preacher that she would refuse to say the vows if "to obey" was in them.

[desertvixen]

Laura Ingalls goes through the same thing - she's this carefree rebel in the earlier books, but The First Four Years is just depressing as her spunk and hopes and dreams and romance just seem to die during the early years of her marriage.

I've only read The First Four Years once... I prefer just to stop at These Happy Golden Years. I've read some of her later writings, and she and Almanzo seemed happy but yes... depressing depressing depressing.

I have to admit, I'm sort of developing a soft spot for Elsie Dinsmore and some of the crowd in those books. They're in the group of stuff I've read because it's free on the Kindle. They provide plenty of opportunities for snarky entertainment - and squickiness.