Do you think the Duggar daughters are happy?

[Mamajane]

This is a question me and my friends have been talking about for some time now...do you think the girls are happy because they have nothing to compare it to? I mean I think that their life has gotten ten times better since the tlc camera crew has shown up and do you think maybe they may enjoy being SAHD as long as TLC stays around? I really think Michelle would be very dif if it werent for the show....

[FlorenceHamilton]

There are things that we will not know for a very long time. I do think that the older girls are happy in some ways and frustrated in others. Remember that they have been specifically taught not to understand the things that frustrate them. They were trained to believe that feelings such as frustration and fear and anger are sinful. When these feeling surface, they are trained to deny them.

It is a really neat mindfuck that the fundies do to their kids.

[freejoytoo]

Not genuinely. They may be happy because they believe they are a special set of people who have been saved, and feel that they are doing what is godly, but I think there is a lot of frustration and resentment which they are trying to repress.

[Markie]

I think the girls probably are somewhat happy, or at least content. They do appear to have love and close bonds with each other. They get to travel and have all sorts of perks that their ATI peers do not have. On the other hand, the lives of the older girls seem to be on hold until Hannie and Jenny can do more around the house. I don't wish for them to marry early, because they will probably end up with someone like their brother, Josh - or worse. Although they are allowed to meet and mingle with the public on book tours and in other settings (hospitals, coffee shops) the Duggar girls have been taught that women working out of the homes are sad and they need to be saved in order for them to go to heaven. I really think they pity us as much as we pity them. Strange...

[alba]

Not really happy, no. I think they're content because they think they've got a great life, but they also have to bury any feelings of frustration or sadness with their situation.

[bananacat]

I think they're all different. Jill seems genuinely happy, although it's impossible to know for sure. Sometimes the people who are most enthusiastic about a cause are that way because they're trying hard to convince themselves. Jana seems completely depressed. Again, it's impossible to know for sure, but to me she doesn't just seem introverted or reserved. It seems like more than that. Her smile never reaches her eyes.

But I wonder if it's even possible for any of them to be truly happy. I just don't think they have enough insight. Repressing bad feelings is not the same thing with actually dealing with them.

[margiebargie]

I think they're all different. Jill seems genuinely happy, although it's impossible to know for sure. Sometimes the people who are most enthusiastic about a cause are that way because they're trying hard to convince themselves. Jana seems completely depressed. Again, it's impossible to know for sure, but to me she doesn't just seem introverted or reserved. It seems like more than that. Her smile never reaches her eyes.

But I wonder if it's even possible for any of them to be truly happy. I just don't think they have enough insight. Repressing bad feelings is not the same thing with actually dealing with them.

Yes, this is exactly it. And like Florence said...

They were trained to believe that feelings such as frustration and fear and anger are sinful. When these feeling surface, they are trained to deny them.

How do you navigate your way to true happiness when...

1. All pathways but one are blocked?

2. You are unable to take action to deal with negative feelings?

Btw, what makes you happy at one point in your life might not make you happy at another. People change. Their circumstances change. Their capabilities change.

My personal secret to happiness is setting goals and acheiving them. That's completely off limits to fundie girls. Unless its something like "read the Bible for 20 minutes a day" or something equally as lame.

[FlorenceHamilton]

It is entirely likely that these girls have the same perspective on life as their oldest brother. Factor that into the equation and the picture we have of these girls changes considerably. There is more than a small chance that they are smug and self centered and small minded because that is the only frame of reference they have been given.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I'm not sure if they know whether they're happy or not, since they're not allowed to acknowledge bad feelings. I think they must be content to a certain extent because this is all they've ever known and they believe they are saved and going to heaven. But at least one of them, possibly all of them, must be at least a little unhappy that they've raised their brothers and sisters and done all the housework and cooking while their mother does nothing. No matter how you're raised you've got to notice that. If any of them have ever had a boy they've wanted to court that Jim Bob didn't approve, they'd probably be unhappy about that. At least the older 4 have each other, and seem genuinely close. Joy Anna is probably the most unhappy, because now that she's a teen, she doesn't have girls close to her age to be close with, and her brothers that she was previously close with, she wouldn't be allowed to be close with anymore because it's unladylike. And she seems to fit the least into the only mold allowed for their lives. When there is only one choice of how to be, the person least like that will be the most unhappy. If any of them ever were genuinely depressed they'd probably just be told to pray about it, i don't think they believe in mental illness.

[moreorlessnu]

If you ask any young woman between the ages of 16 and 22 if they are happy with their lives, what do you think the answer will be?

There are probably many young women their age who are happier with their respective lives, but there are probably many other young women who are much unhappier with their lives than the Duggar girls. Compared to young women who may have to struggle to survive, the Duggar girls do not worry about food and shelter. Compared to young women who pursue their choice of career and education, the Duggar girls are suffocated.

They get to travel and have all sorts of perks that their ATI peers do not have.

I don't know that they 'get' to travel as much as someone else decides where and when they 'have' to travel. Sometimes, staying home, and getting to putter around your house on your own schedule beats being forced to be part of a dog and pony show where you have to constantly be at a certain place at a certain time (with a constant smile on your face) and you have no say, or no control over the schedule. Never mind being trapped in the traveling bus with 20 something other people.

[xDreamerx]

I think they are happy relative to what they know/have been taught about themselves and about the world. If they ever become less sheltered, it will be a rude awakening.

[mebeforee]

I agree that it probably depends on the girl. I also agree that Joy seems the most unhappy of the girls (though I get the feeling Josiah is also unhappy, especially recent pictures in which he's not exactly hiding his lack of enthusiasm).

But there are two levels here; the Quiverfull lifestyle, and living in the public eye. Unhappiness in the kids could be related to either of those, because both of them are very oppressive ways to live in which there is little privacy and a lot of pressure to behave appropriately at all times. I'm sure the show only adds to the pressure put on these kids to be "perfect". On the other hand, it also puts pressure on the parents to keep their rules/discipline within the boundaries considered acceptable in mainstream society, allowing the kids more freedom than a lot of their peers.

Jill seems genuinely happy in this lifestyle, but she's the only one. Jana often avoids the cameras, and maybe she would be happy with the Quiverfull life otherwise, but it's kind of hard to tell because she seems so uncomfortable opening up to anyone, much less the cameras and camera crew.

[MetalLaLa]

I think they are happy relative to what they know/have been taught about themselves and about the world. If they ever become less sheltered, it will be a rude awakening.

I agree. It's their own version of 'happy', however twisted and strange it might be to outsiders. Whenever I have seen a photo or clip of one of the girls and theyre smiling, it never looks genuine to me. This is especially the case with Joy Anna and possibly Jana. One of the Duggar girls will probably take a risk in the future and try to break away from the lifestyle they're forced into, and possibly understand a version of 'happy' that doesn't involve religion or avoiding doing activities that girls of their age do, like dancing or dating.

[bananacat]

I'm not sure if they know whether they're happy or not, since they're not allowed to acknowledge bad feelings. I think they must be content to a certain extent because this is all they've ever known and they believe they are saved and going to heaven. But at least one of them, possibly all of them, must be at least a little unhappy that they've raised their brothers and sisters and done all the housework and cooking while their mother does nothing. No matter how you're raised you've got to notice that. If any of them have ever had a boy they've wanted to court that Jim Bob didn't approve, they'd probably be unhappy about that. At least the older 4 have each other, and seem genuinely close. Joy Anna is probably the most unhappy, because now that she's a teen, she doesn't have girls close to her age to be close with, and her brothers that she was previously close with, she wouldn't be allowed to be close with anymore because it's unladylike. And she seems to fit the least into the only mold allowed for their lives. When there is only one choice of how to be, the person least like that will be the most unhappy. If any of them ever were genuinely depressed they'd probably just be told to pray about it, i don't think they believe in mental illness.

I'm actually not sure about that bolded part. Depending on their particular brand of IFB (which is what they are, no matter what they call themselves), they could fear that their first time of being saved didn't take, or that they had strayed and need to be saved again. I think there are some sects where people will frequently become "saved" over the course of a lifetime. There is also sometimes the belief that bad feelings or minor transgressions are a sign that they aren't truly saved yet or not truly sincere about it. I don't know if their particular beliefs go that extreme, but I don't think any of them feel safe about getting into Heaven.

[moreorlessnu]

Whenever I have seen a photo or clip of one of the girls and theyre smiling, it never looks genuine to me. This is especially the case with Joy Anna and possibly Jana.

Totally agree. The only one who seems truly joyful is Hannie.

The older girls all have that look that kids have when their parents have dragged them to a large family event, and they are unenthusiastic to be there, but they are putting up a good (polite) front to make their parent happy, but you can tell they have no interest in being there.

[geniebelle6901]

I don't think they're happy. Imagine yourself in you 20's and unable to really explore the places you've been to without a chaperone. Heck, image not being able to hang out with friends and have a little fun Imagine having to take care of your younger siblings plus help homeschool them. Imagine not having any privacy or a BFF to confide in. Imagine not be able to talk to boys unless a chaperone is present. Imagine finding a boy/young man you would really like to date and get to know bette but can't. Imagine "Daddy" being the one to determine you can court and eventually marry because he knows what you want better than you do. Oh, and you always have to keep sweet and have a sweet expression on your face.

Fast forward a few years:

Imagine living in a tiny house like you did when you were a little girl. Imagine not being able to go to all of those wonderful places you got to see when you were younger. Imagine that Daddy "picked" the wrong man, and you're verbally and physically abused. Imagine being the submissive wife and mother of half a dozen before you're 30. Imagine going back to fugly frumpers after years of wearing more stylish (but modest) clothes. Imagine having to cook, clean, care for, and homeschool without help and with limited education youself. Imagine when your 30 and you look in the mirror and you look old enough to be somebody's grandmother. Imagine looking at your once slender figure and seeing how those half-dozen kids have take their toll on you body, and that you are expected to have more kids even if it kills you. And you're still supposed to keep sweet and have that sweet expression on your face.

Would any of that make anybody happy?

[Macandcheyenne]

I doubt it they seem to feel trapped I am sure.Other 20 years old are finding their way in the world.Getting their first

Taste of life without their parents around.These girls are scared to walk away or even do anything wrong.Mommie

Needs them at home so it leaves them no room for their life.And am she sure makes them feel bad about thinking

About wanting a life away from home.I remerber them being in airport and one of the older girls had to show her

ID they were shocked and remarked I never had to show my ID to anyone before.JB had to explain to her why and

She didn't seem to understand and stil looked shocked.You can tell from the reaction as most people in their early 20'sare not so shocked about being asked to see an ID they show It regally to cash checks etc. the shock shows how hidden she is from the world.

[Childless]

I don't think any of them are happy. It doesn't matter if the adult girls work or don't work. It doesn't matter if they travel or don't travel. It doesn't matter if they raise their siblings or don't raise them. What does matter is that they have no control over their own lives. Every major life decision is made for them by their parents. How can anyone be happy when they have no control over their own lives and must do what others tell them to do? Nobody would be happy in that situation. Not the Duggars, not the Bates, not the Botkins, not the Maxwells. No one. It doesn't matter what line they parrot, in reality, they are not happy.

[emmiedahl]

It's impossible to tell if they are happy. Remember the big smiles they had at Jubilee's funeral? Those are the smiles they have every day. I seriously doubt they were pleased as punch on such a sad occasion, but damned if they did not look that way.

I am sure they accept their roles, except perhaps Joy, and that they have shallow friendships with their sisters and other fundie girls near them based merely on similar beliefs and lifestyle. Acceptance and complacency may not be happiness, but it is not entirely unpleasant either. I agree with FH that they probably are as small-minded as Smuggar and every other fundie woman I know. I don't think happiness is even on their radar. I think they believe they are living the *right* way, like it or not, and that all of their selfless work will pay off in the long run.

It is easy to be happy with your life even if you are not particularly pleased with most of your activities if you believe there is a pay-off at the end.

If at some point one of them leaves the fold, she is going to discover how amazing and thrilling life can be. That is when the Duggars will be in trouble. They will either have to shun the black sheep or watch their daughters trickle away from the fundie stream.

[pixydust]

I think that they want to be happy. I know when I was a fundie lite teen, I wanted to be happy, and believe, because I thought it was what I was supposed to do, no matter what I felt, thought, or believed.

Edit for a couple of riffles (cuz the heathens wouldn't leave me alone!)

[CynicMom]

There was an interesting study done of people who had a leg amputated vs. people who won the lottery. You would expect that the amputees would be significantly less happy than the lottery winners but that wasn't the case. After a short blip both groups of people returned to the same level of happiness that they had before the event.

Based on that I'd say the majority of the girls ARE happy. This is the only life they've ever known. Even if they were suffering from depression I'd say they have enough positive moments in their lives to consider themselves happy.

During an event I have very little idea of how happy I am compared to normal. It's only later and with perspective that I can say "during this time I was unhappy due to X". So I hypothesize that the Duggar girls are happy in part because they lack perspective.

[pixydust]

During an event I have very little idea of how happy I am compared to normal. It's only later and with perspective that I can say "during this time I was unhappy due to X". So I hypothesize that the Duggar girls are happy in part because they lack perspective.

That's a very good point. They might not have enough perspective or self-awareness to even know if they are happy or unhappy (especially with all of the talk about JOY and keeping sweet, etc). If you are taught that self sacrifice equals happy, then they would probably say that they are happy, and believe it.

[Conuly]

I think the following things in pretty much the same order:

1. The Duggar children, girls and boys both, probably think they're happy. Everybody else appears to be happy, all their physical needs are met* so there's no NEED to be unhappy, and they have no basis of comparison anyway. They may or may not actually BE happy, but

2. We have no way of really knowing what another person thinks or feels deep down. If the Duggars made a habit of posting on their own semi-private messageboard about how unhappy they just KNOW godless homosexual commies are, we'd rightly condemn them for being obnoxious little twits. A pig in the mud might be happy for all we know.

That doesn't mean that any or all of them wouldn't be happier out of that fringe-y lifestyle. They have no way of knowing whether they'd be, so they probably figure they're about as happy as average, at least.

* Yes, yes, poor nutrition and education and not sufficient parental attention, got it. I doubt any of them realize this is the case in their family, though, so the point remains.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I'm actually not sure about that bolded part. Depending on their particular brand of IFB (which is what they are, no matter what they call themselves), they could fear that their first time of being saved didn't take, or that they had strayed and need to be saved again. I think there are some sects where people will frequently become "saved" over the course of a lifetime. There is also sometimes the belief that bad feelings or minor transgressions are a sign that they aren't truly saved yet or not truly sincere about it. I don't know if their particular beliefs go that extreme, but I don't think any of them feel safe about getting into Heaven.

I was thinking more along the lines of they think the lifestyle their living is their ticket into heaven, so of course they'll be happy with their role because it'll give them such a great reward. Though a lot of IFB I think works on the fear of Hell. So I think how happy/not happy they think they should be are tied to their views about the afterlife, whatever they are exaclty.

[Elle]

These girls have been exposed to the world more than many of their non-famous counterparts. They know how much others get to do that they don't. I think they are more aware of how limited their lives are. In a sense, ignorance is bliss. It's easier to be content and even happy if you don't realize there's another way of life out there that's better suited for you. It's just plain hard when you know there's another way, but you aren't allowed to explore it. They're able to see fruit, and it looks delicious, but it's forbidden and so they can only watch as others taste and enjoy it.

I think they're as content as they can be, but also have a lot of feelings of jealousy and discontent that they aren't allowed to express. And because it's been beaten into them that those are bad things, I think it's going to cause guilt and make them feel bad for their feelings.