Why do we need to learn Math?

[Lostie]

I freely admit that I dropped math as soon as I possibly could and still get into university. I've never been sad and I've never looked back.

If I had been good at math it would have been a different story, but I managed to persevere (although there were tears and sleepless nights involved) through the math I was required to take. I definitely think there is an amount of math that is sensible for every person to have, but if you're not going into a STEM kind of field I think you should have the option of taking courses that do interest you and will actually help you rather than higher math that you won't need. I'm never going to need to graph a quadratic function or factor a polynomial (those are things we learned in my last math class - I had to look them up because I don't remember them ;) ) in my real life.

Also, I don't think that I appreciate the beauty in the world any less because I can't do calculus and quantum mechanics.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I freely admit that I dropped math as soon as I possibly could and still get into university. I've never been sad and I've never looked back.

If I had been good at math it would have been a different story, but I managed to persevere (although there were tears and sleepless nights involved) through the math I was required to take. I definitely think there is an amount of math that is sensible for every person to have, but if you're not going into a STEM kind of field I think you should have the option of taking courses that do interest you and will actually help you rather than higher math that you won't need. I'm never going to need to graph a quadratic function or factor a polynomial (those are things we learned in my last math class - I had to look them up because I don't remember them ;) ) in my real life.

Also, I don't think that I appreciate the beauty in the world any less because I can't do calculus and quantum mechanics.

Those are the exact things I learned in my last math class in highschool too!! I think...I don't remember. But it's nice to see familiar terms. I am completely unfamiliar with the American names for math classes and what's taught in them, so I can't really explain what I learned/think should be mandatory using them. I do think a certain level of math should be mandatory for everyone, and I think the three years we have in Ontario highschool, when you get to choose your own level, is about right. We didn't have courses called things like Algebra or Geometry or Trigonometry or things like that, though I am sure I learned those things, it's just hard to compare that way. Our classes were just called Math from kindergarden to grade 10, so i'm probably not getting what level people are suggesting should be mandatory. We did have a course called Calculus in grade 12, which was optional, but I don't think that one should be mandatory.

[Lostie]

Those are the exact things I learned in my last math class in highschool too!! I think...I don't remember. But it's nice to see familiar terms. I am completely unfamiliar with the American names for math classes and what's taught in them, so I can't really explain what I learned/think should be mandatory using them. I do think a certain level of math should be mandatory for everyone, and I think the three years we have in Ontario highschool, when you get to choose your own level, is about right. We didn't have courses called things like Algebra or Geometry or Trigonometry or things like that, though I am sure I learned those things, it's just hard to compare that way. Our classes were just called Math from kindergarden to grade 10, so i'm probably not getting what level people are suggesting should be mandatory. We did have a course called Calculus in grade 12, which was optional, but I don't think that one should be mandatory.

It's the same way in BC - although in high school there were three different 'tracks' (Principles, Applications, and Foundations? That might have been what they were called - I know principles because that's the one I took). And we had optional Calculus 12 (and AP Calculus 12) which I definitely think should STAY optional.

I remember doing algebra (which I actually didn't mind at first although it got really complicated later), geometry, and trigonometry (although all I really remember from trig is SOHCAHTOA), but we didn't have classes with those names either - it was just part of math.

[freejoytoo]

In the UK compulsory education ends at sixteen, so if you choose to go onto A-Levels in Sixth Form you pick the four subjects which interest you most and focus on them in preparation for university where you will specialise in one area. I chose to do Humanities as it was best suited for my course though I think that if I had asked to do Maths A-level my teachers would have been bemused and discouraged me as I struggled so much with the GCSE work.

I don't know all the US terms either so can't say where I learnt up to exactly. It was only yesterday that I found out exponents are the same thing as indices/powers and felt relieved as I had no idea what exponents were and everyone said you should know them by a certain age!

[FlorenceHamilton]

I freely admit that I dropped math as soon as I possibly could and still get into university. I've never been sad and I've never looked back.

If I had been good at math it would have been a different story, but I managed to persevere (although there were tears and sleepless nights involved) through the math I was required to take. I definitely think there is an amount of math that is sensible for every person to have, but if you're not going into a STEM kind of field I think you should have the option of taking courses that do interest you and will actually help you rather than higher math that you won't need. I'm never going to need to graph a quadratic function or factor a polynomial (those are things we learned in my last math class - I had to look them up because I don't remember them ;) ) in my real life.

Also, I don't think that I appreciate the beauty in the world any less because I can't do calculus and quantum mechanics.

Lostie,

My point is not that a person who perseveres as far as they are able should be forced to keep taking courses that are painful to them. My point is that children should be, while they are children, should be given the tools to be able to understand how important Math is in the Universe. The discussion began with a debate about pushing children to take math beyond basic arithmetic when they are young. Math is much more difficult to teach in a homeschool environment than the Humanities and the Macro sciences. Another thread got me started thinking about the whole Math debacle in general. I wanted to separate the Math issue from the Homeschool issue.

Getting back to your comments, I want to address what you have explained because you are actually proving the point that I was making. It is true that you cannot do calculus or quantum mechanics. It is true that I cannot do this either, although I did force myself through the courses many years ago. The fact that you have taken Math beyond Arithmetic and into Algebra, Geometry and Trigonometry....Into Mathematical Theory....Even though you cannot carry out the application...helps you appreciate the beauty of the universe.

Part of education is to teach the value of perseverence and self-discipline. Sometimes we really do need to push ourselves to learn things that our brain has trouble incorporating. Part of a parent's job is to encourage this skill. It is also a parent's job to recognize when the method is not working and to try another one. Try to remember also that sometimes even pieces of that knowledge given to a child do have value. Even if it seems that the bits and pieces are not making a picture for your child, the bits that did get processed are in there somewhere. And someday, that child may be able to take them out and process them.

[ElphabaGalinda]

It's the same way in BC - although in high school there were three different 'tracks' (Principles, Applications, and Foundations? That might have been what they were called - I know principles because that's the one I took). And we had optional Calculus 12 (and AP Calculus 12) which I definitely think should STAY optional.

I remember doing algebra (which I actually didn't mind at first although it got really complicated later), geometry, and trigonometry (although all I really remember from trig is SOHCAHTOA), but we didn't have classes with those names either - it was just part of math.

I remember SOHCAHTOA!:) I didn't know it was part of trigonometry. I remember algebra and geometry too, but they were just part of math every year. We had two different levels in teh lower years of highschool, Applied and Academic. In the upper years of highschool we had Workplace, College and University. But it was just called math. Also kindergarden-grade 8 I did math in French, so its harder to translate that into English terms. I am happy with the level of mandatory math we have, except from Grade 10-11 it's a really big jump, and a lot of people fail. So I think they should find a way to de-stigmatize college level math, because at least in my school if you didn't take University level everyone thought you were dumb, and I would have done much better in highschool. The way our system is set up, where your grade 12 marks determine where you'll get into University, and most programs don't require specific courses, you should be able to choose the courses you love/are best at, because that's what will prepare you for the way our post secondary education works. So Kindergarden to grade 10 math, as we have it, I think should be mandatory for everyone, but with less stigma for the so called lower level in highschool years. I have no idea what that translates to stopping at in American terms. Grade 11 math i'm a little iffy about being mandatory only because I think the way it's taught needs to be totally redesigned because it's a struggle for the vast majority. I also think "real life" math should be integrated in the curiculum, like budgeting, taxes, mortgages, insurace, anything that you can use a real life example, because some peoples' parents just don't teach them that.

[MrsYoungie]

I'm another math geek. Math just always seemed logical and the equations and calculations were so orderly and clear. I understand, however, that not everyone enjoys finding "x" or calculating the slope of a curve or the length of a side in a right angle triangle. Those things are math.

BUT - I run into a lot of people who claim the are bad at math when, in fact, they mean basic arithmetic. It isn't that they have trouble drawing a scale diagram, it's that they are incapable of calculating what 50% of 100 is. While I will make allowance for a small percentage of people having actual discalcula, the number of people who are missing their Grade 4 arithmetic skills is shocking.

I am not a good writer. I could never write a decent essay let alone a short story or a book. However, I can spell, know grammar and read a lot. I would never say of myself "I can't do English!"

[JesusFightClub]

Lets think about this folks. Even dope dealers need to know math. Guys with HS degrees toting sniper rifles in Afghanistan need to know math. Crack and Meth heads that steal scrap metal need to know math.

Lets make it fun to learn for every one!!

Pot Dealer math problem: How many grams in a quarter ounce of weed? If you pay $5000 for a kilo of pot, how much will an ounce of pot be sold for in order for you to make a $50% profit?

Sniper: The wind is blowing from the WNW at 5mph, what is your standard compensation for the drift if your target is 450 yards away?

Crack/Meth Head: Copper is being purchased as scrap for $5 per pound, each inch of wire holds 1/32nd of an ounce. How many miles of wire must you strip to earn $20?

Mathz iz pfun.

riffles

Love this!

Not sure abt first and third however it's not really maths in the second, the gun tells you. I wanted to be in the military in high school (I failed the height requirement. And, eventually, politics requirement :D) But I got fun times. I am a better sniper than plain shooter (which I suck at) totally weird. But was marked down for being "Triggerhappy". I got my target and then started on everyone else's.

[margiebargie]

As an engineer, I don't actually DO the multivariable calculus and differential equations that I learned about in undergrad and grad school. However, a lot of my job requires that I understood and synthesized those concepts and was able to apply them to problems in mechanics, thermodynamics, and other areas of my field. For example, a problem I'm working on at the moment is toxicity of smoke in a fire. The basis of combustion toxicity is dosage, which is essentially an integral - the area under a time-concentration curve. Because I have that understanding I'm able to apply knowledge to the problem at hand. I don't actually have to integrate it, but I could if I needed to and I can solve the problem because of it.

Right. There are lots of tools out there now. I was getting ready to set up a Gaussian dispersion model but found an easy calculator on line. How do you know you can trust an online calculator? You run a few points on your own and check the results. But you've got to have some kind of background to be able to do that, and to figure out what adjustments to make.

Btw, air pollution ain't my thing. This was a one-off sort of problem so I didn't want to put whole bunch of effort in. Just a simple model I could calibrate later with real-world measurements.