Duggar Apologists

[roddma]

I was thinking of common things Duggar defenders say 1) but they look so happy 2)they are self-sufficient 3)the kids aren't on drugs 4)if we had more peopl like them 5)they are well-behaved

Those are the ones I can think of right off hand. It has been a slow day at the content mills so needed to fill time lol

[JenniferJuniper]

1) but they look so happy. They're on a reality show. Reality shows aren’t real. And hardly any of the kids look "happy" at book signings and other boring public events they have to endure for the sake of their parents' fame and fortune.

2)they are self-sufficient Thanks to the aforementioned reality show. No way would JB be able to afford that house and all those additional kids on the rental income from his "commercial properties" alone. Especially not living the sort of lifestyle they are now.

3)the kids aren't on drugs Well, neither are mine and I'm an atheist. Besides, they haven’t yet had access to drugs or alcohol. I say give them time, and once some of them get off the compound, there is bound to be some experimenting at a minimum. Look at Josh. He's towing the line technically so as not to ruin his sweet set-up, but he's turned in to a food obsessed, cable TV-watching, internet-using layabout. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the less privileged younger kids go way off the rails once they break free.

4)if we had more people like them If we had more people like them? We'd have an even more uneducated populace and more potentially promising young women wasting their youth caring for their parents' children rather than forging their own adult lives.

5)they are well-behaved They are well behaved when they must be because they've had fear instilled into them since babyhood. (see "blanket training".) But once away from their parents' immediate control, their pent-up aggression and energy causes to them to act like wild howler monkeys.

[Jessica]

1) Smiling for the camera because you've been trained to do so like a circus animal doesn't mean you're really happy.

2) They get (got?) free laundry help from "Nana", and Grandma Duggar. They rely on their older girls to do all the child rearing and homeschooling. Everything they eat is from a can, a boxed mix, or a bake-n-go meal. They don't garden on their 20 acres of land, sew their own clothes anymore, use cloth duapers or regular ol' dishes and silverware, or use solar panels or wind power. Self-sufficient?

3) Because they are lifeless robots who are never away from their parents. And that's a great standard there... "They aren't on drugs so they're great people!"

4. If we had more people like them there would be no room for land to grow food because of the amount of houses we'd have to build, and all the waste filling up our free space.

5. Their children are frequently seen walking all over tables with bare, disgustingly filthy feet. Joy made fun of Clark Wilson's weight for all the show's viewers to see, then when she got called out on it she tried to blame Jill for saying it first. James...well, watch any clip of that kid. Jackson and Johannah constantly interrupt each other. Other than in the early specials, when the children were still having their will beaten out, they would sit lifelessly for interviews, but not anymore.

[terranova]

The way they treat their women/girls/daughters negates any and all positives in my mind.

[alba]

2) They get (got?) free laundry help from "Nana", and Grandma Duggar. They rely on their older girls to do all the child rearing and homeschooling. Everything they eat is from a can, a boxed mix, or a bake-n-go meal. They don't garden on their 20 acres of land, sew their own clothes anymore, use cloth duapers or regular ol' dishes and silverware, or use solar panels or wind power. Self-sufficient?

This pretty much summarises what bothers me about the Duggars. The big one is the way they treat their daughters. However, from an environmental perspective, they're actually in a somewhat unusual position of being able to be largely self-sufficient, or at least low-impact (for their family size) if they tried. I'd be much more impressed if their lifestyle was something like this:

Sew or buy second-hand (NOT new in the sales) all clothes. Use their ample land and large number of adults in the home to maintain a vegetable garden, a herb garden, and some hens at the very least, as well as a large washing line (which will also, incidentally, increase the life of their clothing). Live in an environmentally-friendly house, something they surely had the opportunity to do when they built their own home. As a cursory Google search tells me that Tontitown has an above average amount of sunlight, their large roof would also be covered in solar panels and situated in such a way to make full use of the available sunlight. They would use fewer disposable items, including food packaging (see comment about using the land), dishes, and diapers. In fact, rather than throwing out the dishes, I'd like to see four or five howlers conscripted after every meal to wash them, though perhaps with a family that size using an industrial-size dishwasher might be more environmentally-friendly.

I've actually never understood why a family that parrots the phrase "buy used and save the difference" hasn't been cloth diapering all along. In the long run, especially with that many kids, cloth diapers are much cheaper than disposables. They certainly have the facilities to wash them; families of six or seven (ie more than a quarter of the size of the Duggars) that I know get by with one washing machine and one dryer, but the Duggars have four washing machines and eight dryers.

In general, I think the family assigns far too much work to the J'slaves, and at the same time struggle to wrap my head around how there can be so much more work for 12 adults/teens with 8 children in the house than for two adults with four children, so that the J'slaves are doing a lot of work and the family still doesn't seem to find the time to wash their dishes. Maybe it's because in most families the parents and sons do housework, too, so in their household the majority of the housework would be spread out over two-thirds of the family rather than a quarter of it. I'd still expect to see the parents doing more work than any individual child (which they don't at the moment), but if the J'slaves are spending, say, 5 hours a day doing housework, that's 20 hours that could be divided by each parent taking 2 hours, the older children doing 1.5, and the 10-12-year-olds making up the difference.

[Evilbad]

In a normal family of that size, everybody who is able-bodied should be pulling their own weight with chores. No offense, but I'd expect to never seen mom or dad sitting or relaxing. Wait, I take that back. Yes offense. Maybe if they'd had to actually parent and care for all those kids, they'd pray about it and decide god had closed her womb or spontaneously kicked jimbob in the balls or something.

[lilwriter85]

When it comes to self-sufficiency and finances, Boob and Mullet have never been able to support a large family completely on their own. The only time they received no help was probably when they only had 4 or 5 kids. As their family grew, they probably started to get clothes and food donations. They have admitted in interviews, that their former church used to help them in the past. I suspect people who never attended church with the Duggars probably gave them donations at times. It is pretty common for QF families to different types of donations from people in their communities and churches. I have no issue with people needing or getting donations in times of need such as illnesses, job loss, car accidents, disasters etc. Growing up my family often donated to people in those situations who were apart of our community or attended the Catholic parish we went to. But with these QF families, it is hard to feel sorry for them because they choose to have an amount of children that they can't fully support. Without TLC, Boob would never been able to finish the TTH.

Another thing I have noticed with Duggar defenders, is that some of them believe that family is extremely wealthy from book sales, DVD sales, and the show. Reality shows are a lot cheaper to produce than scripted shows. But scripted shows make long term profits, reality shows don't. The people who create scripted shows build up some of their wealth from syndication residuals, high DVD or instant video sales, remake/adaptation rights. Reality shows rarely air in syndication and there some that air overseas. Someone mentioned here that the Duggars wouldn't get residuals from syndication. DVD sales are probably low. I have only seen Duggar show DVDs once in a physical retail location. The only people who will buy the DVD's are the hardcore fans. The instant video sales probably aren't high either. As for book sales, the first two books got decent sales numbers. Neither of those books will be long term sellers and I see them being out of print in a few years.

Boob is probably socking away some of the money from the show and books. I think he and Mullet will be fine after the show ends. They will probably going on the speaking circuit, but that will also dry up at some point. Eventually churches or fundie organizations will grow tired of having the Duggars speak at events. There are some Christian circles and organizations that dislike the Duggars and other QF fundie families. I do see some of the Duggar kids ending up in poverty. There is only so much Boob can do for his children. He won't be able to set up all the boys in businesses. Some of them will probably end up working under Josh or JD. The Duggars' lifestyle is not sustainable in the long run.

Another thing that the Duggar defenders talk about is how, "that the Duggars are raising responsible adults". That is a joke. The Duggars have six adult children. Five of those children live at home. Josh can't really be labeled responsible because he doesn't own the car lots at all. JB is still the primary owner and it seems Joshie boy doesn't have any ownership. We all know Josh isn't at the lot that much. The only adult Duggar kid that can be labeled responsible is John David. The J'Slaves don't have jobs and they are doing an overpriced CLEP prep program. Jana working for Gothard/ATI is nothing special and it is basically a program in which she is chaperoned at her job. Sure Jill is doing midwife training, but it is with a Duggar/Gothard approved midwife. The other girls don't have any concept of responsibility outside the home. They aren't getting up each day and going off to college or a job. Put those girls in food services or retail for week and none of them would last. They wouldn't know how to take orders from a non-relative or non Gothard rep and their Duggar time attitude would effect how they do their jobs.

[JMarie]

Another argument: "they're raising a ginormous family without receiving welfare or food stamps"

Don't they claim their house as a home church so they can avoid paying property taxes? And I'll bet anything they're not paying any income taxes.

[slickcat79]

Another argument: "they're raising a ginormous family without receiving welfare or food stamps"

Don't they claim their house as a home church so they can avoid paying property taxes? And I'll bet anything they're not paying any income taxes.

They pay property taxes on the TTH property. I'm not sure if any of their other properties are classed as churches or not; they own at least 4-5. I also don't think that they would be able to collect their TLC income without paying income tax on it, but it does depend on their deductions and exemptions. I'm sure that back in the days before the show, between child/dependent deductions, child tax credits and the earned income credit, they could easily get back more in federal taxes than they put in.

A lot of the leghumpers say different things about the Duggars, but I think what it comes down to for a lot of them is the fact that they like the family because they are white, christian, and raising a bunch of stairstep kids who all have the same parents.

[emmiedahl]

I was thinking of common things Duggar defenders say 1) but they look so happy 2)they are self-sufficient 3)the kids aren't on drugs 4)if we had more peopl like them 5)they are well-behaved

Those are the ones I can think of right off hand. It has been a slow day at the content mills so needed to fill time lol

1. They had those same big grins at their sister's funeral. Obviously they have been trained to turn on the joy whenever a camera is present. Also, the parents advocate parenting books that say to punish a child until they learn to act happy all the time. Many cult members look happy; anyone seen pictures of the Manson family?

2. They receive donations and have for a long time. There is some evidence that JB received a lot of his start in life with a ton of help from his parents; some of their property in fact belongs to Grandma Duggar. Not everyone has a few businesses handed to them and a steady flow of donations (not even to mention a TLC show that pays millions every year).

3. They probably aren't experimenting with drugs. Neither are about half of American teens. Of course no teen would experiment if they were basically locked up all day. The Duggar teens are not avoiding drugs because of their superior judgment and morality, but because they are under their parents' thumbs and have never even had the opportunity.

4. Everyone who has seen a doctor or a nurse or a lawyer or driven on a bridge designed by an architect and engineer, or eaten food grown by farmers should be happy not everyone is like Duggars. The world can only sustain so many families with 19 uneducated people.

5. Not really. Josh is appalling. The other kids are pretty wild. I personally like my children free-range and cruelty-free, but the Duggar kids are no better behaved than the average kid.

[JenniferJuniper]

Another argument: "they're raising a ginormous family without receiving welfare or food stamps"

Don't they claim their house as a home church so they can avoid paying property taxes? And I'll bet anything they're not paying any income taxes.

Not to mention the fact with so many uneducated and unskilled kids in the family, a certain percentage - particularly amongst the younger ones - are bound to end up requiring some government assistance during part or all of their lives. The Duggar family fortune isn't likely to supply all 19 kids with long-term financial support and the next generation, especially those who opt not to use birth control as trained, are likely to face considerable hardships in a 21st century global economy.

[CrazySister]

Another argument: "they're raising a ginormous family without receiving welfare or food stamps"

They also selectively choose to limit the meaning of the word "welfare." They've made it clear that in the past they recieved food & misc help from their church. If I were getting that from my church (oops, when, selfish me, I forgot I've relied on the church foodbank in the past) I still consider that welfare. It's just not from the Evil Government so they choose to say they haven't recieved welfare. Yes, I realize the requirements for church help and government help are different (which is the only reason I went to the church foodbank - I was trying to get wicked food stamps) but IT STILL MEANS THE PERSON/FAMILY RECIEVING IT IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE THE MOST BASIC NEEDS FOR ONES SELF OR FAMILY WITHOUT HELP. Via TLC, the Duggars have made a living out of being professional liars and I hope their show goes down with the flames used for Khate.

[RR88]

People make apologies for the Duggars because they live in relative luxury. If they were still living in one of their previous homes and wearing hand-me-downs, I think more people would be upset.

[lilwriter85]

They also selectively choose to limit the meaning of the word "welfare." They've made it clear that in the past they recieved food & misc help from their church. If I were getting that from my church (oops, when, selfish me, I forgot I've relied on the church foodbank in the past) I still consider that welfare. It's just not from the Evil Government so they choose to say they haven't recieved welfare. Yes, I realize the requirements for church help and government help are different (which is the only reason I went to the church foodbank - I was trying to get wicked food stamps) but IT STILL MEANS THE PERSON/FAMILY RECIEVING IT IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE THE MOST BASIC NEEDS FOR ONES SELF OR FAMILY WITHOUT HELP. Via TLC, the Duggars have made a living out of being professional liars and I hope their show goes down with the flames used for Khate.[/quote]

This. They have lied or twisted certain things around several times. They lie about Josh owning the lots and him not being supported by them. They lie about not being QF and they have hidden their affiliations with Gothard on the show. Some people have caught onto their lies, while some of the leghumpers haven't. I think show is starting to go down in flames. Dislike for the Duggars has been increasing since last year even before Michelle's pregnancy and the miscarriage. Some of the shit Michelle and Jim Bob believe is starting to bring them down. Michelle was slammed heavily after the video of her saying that, " overpopulation is a lie" went viral on several sites. JB responded to backlash against Michelle after that video, and he still touted the same bullshit about Jacksonville being able to fit the world's population. More people are seeing that the Duggars are morons.

[roddma]

I read they stopped claiming the house as a church because of the flack over it. Another defender line: "My great so and so had 12 kids'

[She Who Laughs]

I read they stopped claiming the house as a church because of the flack over it. Another defender line: "My great so and so had 12 kids'

They haven't had church in their house for quite some time. They meet in a house the Jim Bob bought – I believe it was the same house that they showed in one of the episodes that was nasty inside and the kids were helping cleaning it up. Can't remember for sure, it might have been a foreclosure.

[3 is enough]

Another defender line: "My great so and so had 12 kids'

Oh yes. They conveniently forget that not all of those 12 kids lived to adulthood. My grandmother (born in 1910) was one of 14. 7 of them lived to adulthood. My grandfather (born in 1904) was one of 13- 6 lived to adulthood. That was pretty par for the course in those days.

[Witsec7]

There is a leghumper on 19K&C FB claiming another dead baby by the name of Jesse. :o

[CanadianHippie]

Oh yes. They conveniently forget that not all of those 12 kids lived to adulthood. My grandmother (born in 1910) was one of 14. 7 of them lived to adulthood. My grandfather (born in 1904) was one of 13- 6 lived to adulthood. That was pretty par for the course in those days.

My grandfather was one if 16 and all lived until adulthood. He went on the have 12 kids with my grandmother. Then the pill was created and none of their kids had more than four (five? it's a big confusing family). None of them wanted to put their kids through 12 kids in one tiny house. Also, both my grandfather and grandmother worked to feed everyone.

[freejoytoo]

I have never understood why the Duggars never claiming government welfare somehow makes them better than everyone else.

[SheWhoIsObeyed]

So I finally watched the Jubliee episode last night.

There was a lot to take in, but primarily I was horrified when Michelle and Jim Bob told everyone that the baby was gone and then Michelle sat there, alone, weeping. No one, not one person got up to comfort her. Not even Jim Bob's mother.

Nor did she reach out to seek and offer comfort. It was astonishing. I wanted to reach throught the tv screen and wrap my arms around her. As much as she drives me up the wall, my compassion for her knew no bounds at that moment.

How telling is that her children felt no connection to her, nor she to them. Jim Bob went to each of them and offered a hug and a word of comfort. She just sat there alone, silently weeping. At that moment, my heart broke for her. Even as I realized that it was of her own making. She is not a mother. She is a child bearer.

[GeoBQn]

They also selectively choose to limit the meaning of the word "welfare." They've made it clear that in the past they recieved food & misc help from their church. If I were getting that from my church (oops, when, selfish me, I forgot I've relied on the church foodbank in the past) I still consider that welfare. It's just not from the Evil Government so they choose to say they haven't recieved welfare. Yes, I realize the requirements for church help and government help are different (which is the only reason I went to the church foodbank - I was trying to get wicked food stamps) but IT STILL MEANS THE PERSON/FAMILY RECIEVING IT IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE THE MOST BASIC NEEDS FOR ONES SELF OR FAMILY WITHOUT HELP. Via TLC, the Duggars have made a living out of being professional liars and I hope their show goes down with the flames used for Khate.[/quote]

This. They have lied or twisted certain things around several times. They lie about Josh owning the lots and him not being supported by them. They lie about not being QF and they have hidden their affiliations with Gothard on the show. Some people have caught onto their lies, while some of the leghumpers haven't. I think show is starting to go down in flames. Dislike for the Duggars has been increasing since last year even before Michelle's pregnancy and the miscarriage. Some of the shit Michelle and Jim Bob believe is starting to bring them down. Michelle was slammed heavily after the video of her saying that, " overpopulation is a lie" went viral on several sites. JB responded to backlash against Michelle after that video, and he still touted the same bullshit about Jacksonville being able to fit the world's population. More people are seeing that the Duggars are morons.

I hate it how, when an apologist gives the "at least they aren't on welfare or food steps" excuse and someone responds by saying that they admitted to receiving food and clothing donations and they wouldn't be able to live their lifestyle without TLC, the apologist says, "Well, the show and the donations were gifts from the Lord to reward them for their faith."

[Maude]

There is some evidence that JB received a lot of his start in life with a ton of help from his parents; some of their property in fact belongs to Grandma Duggar. Not everyone has a few businesses handed to them and a steady flow of donations (not even to mention a TLC show that pays millions every year).

It's a little ironic that Jim Bob's lifestyle was/is made possible in part by his mother's initiative. If I were Mary, I wouldn't let him forget it.

[bananacat]

I once saw someone comment that it's great because they'll be paying into Social Security someday. Umm, no. Half of them, the women, will never have a paying job at all. The men are so under-educated that they'll be in constant poverty at extremely low-paying jobs, so they won't be paying a large dollar amount in taxes.

[jesssnerch]

I hate it how, when an apologist gives the "at least they aren't on welfare or food steps" excuse and someone responds by saying that they admitted to receiving food and clothing donations and they wouldn't be able to live their lifestyle without TLC, the apologist says, "Well, the show and the donations were gifts from the Lord to reward them for their faith."

You know it's this attitude that burns me up sometimes. Many people who oppose welfare will willingly donate to a family at their church who is having hard times, but god forbid money is taken out of their tax dollars (which has never been in their pocket anyway) for someone less fortunate. These same people who will buy a ticket to a fish fry or chili dinner for the latest person in their community to be stricken with cancer are outraged at the idea for nationalized health care. I'd much rather pay a little more in taxes to ensure neither I, nor anyone else I know goes broke trying to pay medical expenses. It just seems so logical to me. Am I wrong?