When Courtship Fails - Thoughts from Natalie Nyquist

[hoipolloi]

Starting a new topic as a continuation of this discussion, per fundiefan2012's suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=8&p=285670#p285670

Natalie's Post on courtship fail is here (pursuethebeauty.com/2012/05/21/courtship/) and discussion is on her page at FB (http://www.facebook.com/natalienyquist/ ... 1476543785).

Excerpt:

I spent my teen years sure I’d have a first-kiss-at-the-wedding, fairy-tale courtship and happily-ever-after marriage with beautiful children. After all, if I am “committed to courtship,†believe that “true love waits,†and say “marriage is ’til death do us part’,†what else is needed? My beliefs will direct my future.

At 23, I married. At 24, my husband divorced me. Life spiraled into a maze of brokenness, a gritty reality many friends and acquaintances found uncomfortable. I fell. I got up again. Broken heart, broken life, broken dreams.

My ideals failed me. The courtship formula did not protect me from devastation. Saving my purity for my husband and being betrayed by him triggered feelings of loss and disillusionment. I felt cheated, like someone who paints a masterpiece only to give it to a friend who shreds it.

If a break-up is a broken bone, divorce is an amputation. How do you recover and return to normal? You don’t. You learn to live life differently. In my opinion, you become a stronger individual. It’s not the most desirable way to gain strength, but for those who must walk this path, it works.

Thoughts?

ETA excerpt from article.

[CynicMom]

Nice article. She's really got some perspective on what happened to her. The comments on the facebook page are mostly supporting as well. My least favorite commenter is Heidi, who states that this whole thing is due to a failure to put Christ first.

[Kitty]

Fantastic, Natalie! I couldn't agree more. To me, the difference between dating a courtship is the later has marriage in mind. Dating to me is a recreational relationship... two people who have no real end-goal in mind. Courtship says 'we think we may be a good fit for marriage and we're ready to find out.' How one goes about courtship should be completely up to them. I don't see a courtship ending as a failure. It is so much better to find out BEFORE marrying that you aren't meant for one another. As long as the relationship wasn't taken lightly, I see no wrong in courting someone and not marrying them. Courting more than one person before marriage is not a failure. I think there is too much pressure from the courtship community to love only once for your whole life. Yes, that happened for me, but we'd known each other since childhood. When we began our official courtship, we already knew we wanted to get married. It was simply a time of becoming more than best friends. :-)

fucking idiot. Dating works out because there's no plan for marriage! :doh: You can't go into a relationship assuming you're going to marry that person! And dating relationships AREN'T taken lightly either! jfc these people are such morons who will never admit they're wrong!

Natalie's whole post is about not believing in a stupid fucking manmade fairytale, and Erica Mueller still promotes that fucking fairytale. "There's nothing wrong with courting more than one person!" BOLLOCKS.

[Guest Anonymous]

What is Natalie's backstory - is she the one who married James Ference?

[Austin]

What is Natalie's backstory - is she the one who married James Ference?

That's her.

[Swamptribe]

Nice article. She's really got some perspective on what happened to her. The comments on the facebook page are mostly supporting as well. My least favorite commenter is Heidi, who states that this whole thing is due to a failure to put Christ first.

The whole argument that 'it's not about being happy, it's about putting Christ first" comes off as a crutch for ones misery.

[CynicMom]

It's also great for blaming the victim. This horrible thing happened to Natalie? It's HER fault. I'm doing things differently so there's NO WAY it could happen to me.

[fundiefan2012]

Thanks for starting this hoipolloi.

I couldn't believe Heidi's comment on the Facebook discussion. What an idiot. She totally missed the point of the article and IMO reeks of the self-righteousness so many Christians have. Clearly, it's not all about Christ with her. IT's all about HER.

Any arguments Natalie is making that could be dissected? Sure she makes some good points, but what does she need to clarify or do better on?

[fundiefan2012]

It's HER fault. I'm doing things differently so there's NO WAY it could happen to me.

This. This is what I see over and over again in the world of YLCF, VF, and ATI. If something that is perceived as BAD happens to someone, it MUST be their fault. How dare they try to find good in it? How dare anyone talk about anything but God in this? Please. Spare us.

Or don't. then we have more to snark over.

[tropaka]

this woman was a victim of a scammer, there's no Christ in that. The asshole is "married" again, according to this

http://jamesferenceisaliar.blogspot.ca/

[DowagerDuchess]

I think Natalie is an incredibly strong woman who overcome a lot given the fundie lifestyle she was raised to live. She has learned a lot from all that she has been through.

[Mela99]

Every once in a while, I find a fb commenter that I just would love to slap upside the head with a fist full of half-cooked lasagna noodles. Heidi, the honor is yours this time.

I give Natalie huge props for even being able to speak out. How many other women in her situation would dare?

Heidi is just another example of woman blaming for all things. She points the finger at Natalie, never even giving a thought to the man in the relationship. For as weak and meek as fundies claim women are supposed to be, they give them all the power in the world.

[fundiefan2012]

Every once in a while, I find a fb commenter that I just would love to slap upside the head with a fist full of half-cooked lasagna noodles. Heidi, the honor is yours this time.

:clap: :lol: :clap:

[Visionoyahweh]

I posted:

I think it's worth pointing out that courtship is dating. Just incredibility restrictive and debasing. Once you start constructing a parallel universe of pretty words in which to live your life, the war is already lost.

[Witsec1]

I find myself wondering what the backstory is here:

Daniel Barber Thank you for sharing your experience Natalie. Hopefully it will provoke some critical thinking in the "sheep".

4 hours ago · Like

Josh Bennett

‎Daniel Barber, wow, it's been quite a while since we've seen each other. And a lot has happened to both of us since then....not all of it "good." You, of all people, will surely understand when I say that I also was hurt by some of the same people that hurt you. I make no excuses for them. The real problems behind those organizations and the people who ran/run them has become more and more evident as time passes. As you may know, I have distanced myself from them for the sake of principle. My purpose of this post is not to chastise, contradict, or even change you. None of that is up to me anyway. All I'm asking is that you consider this one thing: Just as many people do wrong in the name of our country and our military (both of which I highly respect) and do not truly represent our country and/or military as a whole, not everyone who claims to be doing God's will or speaking God's words is actually representing God. He will pay them back according to their deeds. In the meantime, thank you for protecting my freedoms. It means a lot to me!

4 hours ago · Like · 1

Also, loved this comment:

I think it's worth pointing out that courtship is dating. Just incredibility restrictive and debasing. Once you start constructing a parallel universe of pretty words in which to live your life, the war is already lost.

4 minutes ago · Like

ETA: LOL, crossposted w. Vision

[Visionoyahweh]

Thanks Florapaste. I just get so annoyed by people who can't describe their lives, dreams, aspirations, and goals in plain English. The whole double/triple/quadruple secret meaning of words only known to the initiated is always a warning sign to me.

[fundiefan2012]

That Daniel character had posted (several times) a very long random rant about some deacon board or something at his church. Apparently he or Natalie deleted it because it wasn't up there when I checked an hour ago.

[Sister Mozz]

I couldn't believe Heidi's comment on the Facebook discussion. What an idiot. She totally missed the point of the article and IMO reeks of the self-righteousness so many Christians have. Clearly, it's not all about Christ with her. IT's all about HER.

That was a crazy comment! I can't believe how many people "liked" it, especially since Hiedi added absolutely nothing to the conversation at hand. You are so right that she completely missed the point.

Any arguments Natalie is making that could be dissected? Sure she makes some good points, but what does she need to clarify or do better on?

Well, for one she used that convenient wordsmithing that Vision mentioned and makes it sound like her son was born from her courtship-initiated marriage. Not so. Somehow :?: :roll: she forgot to mention her second marriage at all, much less that it also ended in divorce.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, for one she used that convenient wordsmithing that Vision mentioned and makes it sound like her son was born from her courtship-initiated marriage. Not so. Somehow :?: :roll: she forgot to mention her second marriage at all, much less that it also ended in divorce.

I'm confused. I know now she was married to James Ference, but wasn't he already married? Who was the second husband and who is her child's father?

[darkplumaged]

I'm confused. I know now she was married to James Ference, but wasn't he already married? Who was the second husband and who is her child's father?

James was Natalie's second husband and is the father of her son. The marriage she references in the blog post is her first marriage, to a supposedly godly fundie guy.

ETA: James was still legally married to someone else when he "married" Natalie. I think they had a legal ceremony sometime later. Also, I too find it... interesting... that Natalie doesn't discuss James at all in the post, as if he didn't exist. Of course, she probably wishes he didn't exist, and their relationship wasn't courtship-based, so she probably decided it wasn't relevant to the topic.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you. So did her parents set her up with unhappy no 1, and is that divorce why she rebounded into Ference?

[hoipolloi]

I'm confused. I know now she was married to James Ference, but wasn't he already married? Who was the second husband and who is her child's father?

Marriage #1 was to Richard Klein, in October 2007. He ended the marriage in early 2008. This was the "godly" courtship marriage. Klein courted Natalie by approaching her parents for permission to court her after seeing something Natalie had written online about being a SAHD, godly courtship or some such thing.

Marriage #2 was to James Ference, in April 2009 although their license says July 2009. This is because it turned out that James was still married to his previous (3rd) wife & "married" Natalie in April before his divorce was final. She apparently didn't know this and went through with the ceremony. She has a son from the marriage with Ference, born in December 2010. The marriage broke up in early 2011 when Natalie realized the breadth & depth of Ference's deceptions, manipulations & financial scams.

ETA: Here's a thread from the old board where Natalie (Aragorn's Rose) replied to questions about her marriages & other matters: http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/137292 ... 7qc-o7vPXU

[Sister Mozz]

Also, I too find it... interesting... that Natalie doesn't discuss James at all in the post, as if he didn't exist. Of course, she probably wishes he didn't exist, and their relationship wasn't courtship-based, so she probably decided it wasn't relevant to the topic.

I figure that is why he wasn't mentioned, either. We know they didn't court, so doesn't that mean they... wait for it... dated? Seems like it would be revelevant then, since she has had bad experiences with both courtship and dating.

[skinch]

Natalie visited the yuku FJ. Her username was AragornsRose.

Here's a link: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/4343/Courtship-stories?page=21#.T7qctMVHGnk

She was very candid about her two marriages.

I respect her strength.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification. I have also now found this yuku thread, where Natalie expanded on what happened in both marriages: http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/137292 ... 7qdaNxYvzM

She was very candid with FJ in that thread. Her 'more public' post today is less interesting and doesn't really say very much that is new.

ETA: :lol: we all went back and found the same link, and I was the last to post....