Toddlers and Tiaras

[ADoyle90815]

They had a special getting ready for the new season on last night, and it reminded me of how disgusting those pageants really are, and the parents trying to get a screaming child to wear fake eyelashes, makeup, or a hair piece. Now I know why they continue to have the Duggars on, as they're either out of ideas, or are specifically catering to hate watchers.

[Geechee Girl]

I know his will be an unpopular opinion. I love this show!  I judge glitz pageants, and have been at pageants where filming is going on. I refuse to sign releases for this show or Dance Moms because I don't want to be on tv. Regarding the new episode, the battle of the coaches is a new storyline. I'm acquainted with Cambrie. She's a good coach, and her girls score well and win titles. As far as the revolutionary bit, coaching by Skype is a thing. The pageant featured was not a true southern glitz pageant; instead it was some low-rent and third tier spectacle. The premier pageants would never allow T&T to film. Same with DM, highly respected competitions look down upon TLC. Some of the comps were made up just so the girls would have somewhere to film for the show.

[tcach]

 

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I judge glitz pageants, and have been at pageants where filming is going on.

Oh, that's very interesting. Have you seem/met coach Nikki? Is she really as nasty and crude as she is portrayed on T&T?

 

[OyToTheVey]

On 8/29/2016 at 0:48 AM, Geechee Girl said:

I know his will be an unpopular opinion. I love this show!  I judge glitz pageants, and have been at pageants where filming is going on. I refuse to sign releases for this show or Dance Moms because I don't want to be on tv. Regarding the new episode, the battle of the coaches is a new storyline. I'm acquainted with Cambrie. She's a good coach, and her girls score well and win titles. As far as the revolutionary bit, coaching by Skype is a thing. The pageant featured was not a true southern glitz pageant; instead it was some low-rent and third tier spectacle. The premier pageants would never allow T&T to film. Same with DM, highly respected competitions look down upon TLC. Some of the comps were made up just so the girls would have somewhere to film for the show.

I really like Cambrie. I kinda want to be like her but I'm too old and lazy lol. It takes sooooooo much effort to look that put together.

[Snarfblatt]

I also like Cambrie. I would imagine that some if not most of the drama between her and Jamie is manufactured. Cambrie also clearly knows what she is doing and how to win which would be what I would look for in a pageant coach. 

[Geechee Girl]

On 8/29/2016 at 3:55 PM, tcach said:

Oh, that's very interesting. Have you seem/met coach Nikki? Is she really as nasty and crude as she is portrayed on T&T?

Nah, I haven't met Nikki, and I suspect that was her real personality coming through for all to see. I think she's in one of the Carolinas. 

On 9/6/2016 at 6:02 PM, Snarfblatt said:

I also like Cambrie. I would imagine that some if not most of the drama between her and Jamie is manufactured. Cambrie also clearly knows what she is doing and how to win which would be what I would look for in a pageant coach. 

Absolutely, the drama was manufactured. From the limited times I've gotten to speak with Cambrie, I found her sweet, professional, and a bit snarky. When I'm judging, I don't interact with any coaches or parents until after the pageant to avoid any appearance of collusion. When I'm there in other roles, I have more opportunity for interaction. I think Cambrie dialed up the snark for tv because TLC likes one-liners. Jamie's girls were no competition for Cambrie's.  There are quite a few Jamies in the biz who think they can step into coaching without experience or knowledge of how the system works. Newbie parents fall for them because they're cheap.

[OyToTheVey]

21 minutes ago, Geechee Girl said:

Nah, I haven't met Nikki, and I suspect that was her real personality coming through for all to see. I think she's in one of the Carolinas. 

Absolutely, the drama was manufactured. From the limited times I've gotten to speak with Cambrie, I found her sweet, professional, and a bit snarky. When I'm judging, I don't interact with any coaches or parents until after the pageant to avoid any appearance of collusion. When I'm there in other roles, I have more opportunity for interaction. I think Cambrie dialed up the snark for tv because TLC likes one-liners. Jamie's girls were no competition for Cambrie's.  There are quite a few Jamies in the biz who think they can step into coaching without experience or knowledge of how the system works. Newbie parents fall for them because they're cheap.

Cambrie seems really sweet. And I know they don't show the actual session on TV but she obviously knows what she's doing. Yes you can google but I think it's the coaches job to tell the mom that her kids dress isn't glitzy enough for a pageant. Jaime should have told Kim to get another dress. 

And omg how freaking adorable is that Caitlyn kid. She's such a cutey pie. 

 

PS: If these newbie moms are serious about pageants, they need to be ok with paying a ton for a real coach. I would never send my kid to a gymnastics or ice skating coach because they're cheap. A good coach costs money. Hell if I had the money, I'd try to recruit Martha Karolyi herself to teach my nonexistant invisible hypothetical child. 

[tcach]

Geechee Girl, thanks for your reply about Coach Nikki. Did anyone else catch a brief glimpse of her in the introduction to this season's episode 1?

I have two other questions about pageants. Is it that frequent that they are not ready to go on stage when their name is called? I had read that it is a producer driven plot point but it seems to happen almost every episode. How often does it really occur and what happens if their age group is finished by the time they show up?

I've been watching the clips of JonBenet and noticed that she sings as her talent. I don't recall seeing any of the T&T kids doing anything other than dancing, acrobatics or just posing. Is singing or playing a musical instrument still part of the talent section of any of the pageants that you judge?  (If some of the parents have the aspiration that their child will go on to Miss America wouldn't they need an actual talent?)

[Geechee Girl]

@tcach Ask away! I love discussing pageants and dance. Regarding being late for stage, it's both production-driven and reality, especially in pageants where the contestants of certain age groups are few. Usually there is a rough outlined schedule in smaller to mid-sized pageants. For instance, the schedule will have 15-20min blocks per age group. However, if there's only 4 kids 0-2yrs old, the 3's will be ahead of schedule. Pageants also frequently run late too, which leads to very cranky children. Also in smaller pageants, talent and Outfit of Choice will run with whomever is ready in the wings to go. In pageants where the contestants must use the same hair & makeup people, there will be tardiness. Popular hair & makeup people start around 6:00am for a pageant that begins at 9:00. In those cases, the emcee will tell the judges to go back in the score sheets to the child who was skipped. Top tier pageants run on a very tight schedule, and there are penalties for missing the line up. This is where a good coach is essential because they can gauge how the pageant is flowing and make sure their team is ready. 

Not all pageants have a talent portion. If they do, it's usually the evening before the mandatory categories. Singing and musical instruments are popular with the older set. What is shown on TLC is Outfit of Choice which is a sort of 60-90sec routine where anything goes unless there's a theme. Depending on the rules, it can be just posing, dance, acrobatics, etc. This is the opportunity for the little ones to let loose because poise, posture and the beauty walk aren't necessary to score well. 

The parents who think glitz pageants will lead to Miss America are sorely misguided. Pageants within the MAO require public speaking, interview, talent and community service. If a glitz kid continues pageantry into adulthood, they're most likely to be found doing Miss USA, Hawaiian Tropic, and the "Mrs." circuit similar to those on the short-lived reality show Game of Crowns.

 

[tcach]

Geechee Girl, thanks so much for your reply. If I might ask whether you competed as well as how you became a judge? (PS I was a judge in my town's Fireman's Field Day pageant (pop. 1300) but that's only because  I was new in town and they wanted to find judges who did not know the families of the girls who competed and could be impartial. The girl who won did a sketch with pastels for her talent. I liked it because it was such a departure from the dancers/acrobats.

[PennySycamore]

In the height of tackiness, ID Discovery ran an ad for Toddlers and Tiaras during the JonBenet special the other  night.

[Coconut Flan]

That one should be kept as example of completely tone deaf.  I don't know why I'm still trying to watch this botched up reboot.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I'm really not impressed with the new format of Toddlers and Tiaras. So far there have been four episodes, but we've only seen the results of one pageant. In true TLC fashion they're dragging these shows out longer than necessary and putting in way too manufactured drama. The coach vs coach aspect makes it look like another Dance Moms, but at least in Dance Moms there was a new competition pretty much every episode. I'd like to see more of the individual competitors and how the train/prepare, and less trash talking moms.

[tcach]

Geechee girl I have another question for you. I have been watching older episodes of T&T and am confused about the crowning process. Some pageants seem to give everyone a trophy because those not receiving one in the early stages are sure to win a higher title. However I recall MacKenzie not winning a small title going back to sit with her mother and then not winning a bigger one either. (It's the episode where she cries inconsolably.)

So does it vary with the pageant director? With pageants where not every one wins how can the parents be so certain that their child will win a higher title and not leave empty handed?

 

Thanks again for helping me understand this subculture.

[Geechee Girl]

@tcach My initial exposure to pageants came through dance and drag, believe it or not.  My uncle used to compete in balls, and he taught me different walks. A few years later, my dance teacher was a pageant judge and I would assist her every now and then by being her demo model. Back then southern glitz was very cutthroat. Judging was way more stringent. Points could be docked if a hair was of of pace, any sign of wear of the white patent leather shoes, ill-fitting gowns or flippers, dirty feet in swimwear, and so on. The pageants on T&T couldn't hold a candle to them. Back then Pro-Am and Western were mandatory. It's a distinct style of very exaggerated modeling routine made popular by gay pageant coaches. I really think it came from the drag ball scene. Here's an example.  

I never competed in pageantry because dance competitions were my thing. I got into judging when approached by a director who knew me as a retired pro-dancer and teacher. I coached a few girls for natural pageants, but I didn't take to it. I rather do choreography. I prefer being a dance mom. When I came to the west coast, directors here passed my name along. Judging is more manageable because it only requires a few hours of my time. I'm gone before crowning which takes place the following day. No drama!

There are pageants where everyone gets a crown. Most of them will give all the kids a gift bag of toys & candy or some small trinket. The "losers" are princesses or divisional queens. It's in the best interest of the directors to spread the wealth in order to get repeat customers. One system has the judges pick best hair, best eyes, best dressed, best photo glitz, best photo natural, etc for the kids who didn't bump up. Usually those optional categories come at a price. At some pageants, only the kids who've entered the mandatory events (beauty and swim or OOC) can qualify for those high titles. The crowning hierarchy is very convoluted, especially for newbies. This way, those parents leave thinking their child won.   

The latest episode was a hot, buttery mess! Supreme Me is not the largest pageant on the west coast. I think it was a 1 day pageant. The big pageants are 3 days. I've judged for this director when she was running another pageant. Her daughter also competes. T&T also failed to mention Landree's parents ran a large pageant system themselves in addition to coaching & photography. From what I hear, they have disgruntled customers nationwide.

IIRC, the Mackenzie - Eden showdown was a Universal Royalty pageant. Only the Supremes get crowns & cash. The rest get a parting gift. Mackenzie could have won an optional, and it not been shown on tv. 

They parents who are certain they'll win are the ones who have won previously at other pageants. Those kids are coached, use the popular hair & makeup people, have an expensive wardrobe, and spend a lot of money. There are families who compete every weekend and attend multiple nationals.

[OyToTheVey]

Who da fuk allows a zebra to be brought into a hotel?!?!? Isn't it a health code violation?

[tcach]

I don't like having any living things being used as props. In the clips we saw (for the most part) they weren't being held properly and looked dazed with the noise and lights as the pageant contestants bounced them around and held them aloft.  With all the attention being given to the contestants I can't imagine the animals were being fed, watered, and exercised appropriately.

And don't get me started on puppies being awarded as prizes (as we witnessed in previous seasons.)

Edited October 16, 2016 by Coconut Flan
Removed empty quote box.

[FundieFarmer]

Geechee Girl, I feel like I'm learning so much from reading your posts. Thank you for sharing. This is fascinating)

[Geechee Girl]

That animal pageant was a hot mess. The animal gimmick really turned me off. Quite a few of these small pageants have a hard time finding a hotel have the event because of the mess they leave behind. In addition to the ballroom damage, the individual rooms don't fare better. There's a hotel chain that hosts a 3 day pageant, and all the guests are required to submit a security deposit. The showers were used for spray tanning, and y'all can imagine how that turned out. 

I judged the twins a few times when they first started out, and even back then one could tell they both weren't into it. The last episode really showcased that the girls are their mom's vanity project. Those beauty gowns would be more appropriate for older teens.

Kailia is a lovely girl, and her desire to be onstage is genuine. She has a sparkle about her that is a joy to witness. She's very well-rounded with activities outside of pageantry. She scores well, and usually awarded a supreme title. I have to wonder if the mom was coached to be overly exuberant. It came across severely Jill-like with the facial expressions.

[starfish]

I'm going to watch tonight to see if anyone punches the mom named "Kelly". She's the one with the twins who brought the pooping goat to the competition. Her favorite phrase seems to be "I'll end you" said menacingly. Her husband appears  well-meaning but completely clueless. I'm not exactly sure I'm rooting for any particular girl to win the competition, but the pageant moms are something else.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Former Toddlers & Tiaras star Kailia Posey died recently. She was 16. 

My condolences to her friends and family.

[BlondeAgent007]

20 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Former Toddlers & Tiaras star Kailia Posey died recently. She was 16. 

My condolences to her friends and family.

I saw that too!  I wonder how a lot of those girls turned out long term.  I still think about Swan Brooner from the documentary Living Dolls.  That was my introduction to pageant moms.