The Preemie Story On Doug's Blog

[Beammeup]

:naughty: Noticing monkey like traits in a human of any age is worse than abortion!

Preemies also do not respond well to stroking or patting. A gentle still hand is more what a preemie needs.

And all my children had a lot of lanuago. Apes! :lol:

[dora]

I had preemie twins at 30 weeks in 2006. The baby in that picture looks like my kids did when they were almost ready to come home (at term).

I went into labour at 20 weeks (fortunately it was able to be stopped.) I knew there was no way that they would have survived if they had been born that early. Even at 24 weeks, they probably wouldn't have made it because it turned out my son had inter uterine growth restriction and was 'small for gestational age'. The earliest surviving baby I personally know (whose foot currently graces one of our local buses, advertising for the neonatal trust) was born at 23 weeks. I do know a 25 weeker who was able to go home four weeks before her due date, so that's not preposterous, but not very likely.

Most mums were in NICU every day, for as long as they could be. Kangeroo care and breastfeeding (or expressing, mostly) were strongly encouraged, but in the early days we couldn't have them out too often, or for too long. Most of the mothers in my room were there for their first babies, naturally those who had older children were not able to be there as often as we were.

I was thankful every day for our Ebil socialist healthcare system. I can only what imagine our two month stay in NICU must have cost. I will probably never pay enough tax to cover it all. I am also very greatful to the Ronald McDonald House charity, which often fed me lunch and gave me a place to nap, express, cry or just talk with a volunteer.

[Sola]

I'm just seething right now! My daughter was an NICU baby in 1993, and NOTHING in this description sounds like our experience. Nineteen years after our NICU experience, I still volunteer at our local Women & Children's hospital NICU and on the the national level with an NICU collaborative as a parent advisor; through that I've been privileged to know doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists, and other NICU parents from all over the US and Canada. I find nothing in this description that reflects the reality of NICU care today or then. Nothing.

No doctor I know would advise an abortion to a mother in early labor. No doctor I know would advise a procedure specifically because it would DECREASE the chance of survival. Every single NICU parent I've known, and I've now met several dozen, has felt guilty that they couldn't be in the NICU more, even if, like me, they were able to be there every waking moment. (Since we didn't have older children to care for and I had generous maternity benefits, I only went home to sleep and pump.) There was NEVER a TV or music on anywhere near the babies. The lights were ALWAYS dimmed unless they were needed. The nurses encouraged us to ask questions, touch her, hold her (once she was cleared for that) rock her, bathe her, talk to her, etc. all the time. They even occasionally took up a collection for some of the moms who lived out of town and couldn't afford a hotel room. When babies were not able to survive, they cried with the moms and dads as they said goodbye to a child they had barely gotten to know.

As for the parents who wrote the letters (assuming Doug didn't make the story up out of whole cloth) I wish I could tell them that I know they believe they are telling this lie in order to achieve what they think is a greater good, but they are throwing a group of people under the bus who made the most unbearable event of my life not just bearable, but almost normal. You are heaping guilt on parents whose parenting experience is already unimaginably guilt-ridden and lonely, not to mention parents who live with the possibility of their child's death hanging over their heads every minute of the day.

I try never to attach the label "evil" to persons, only to actions, but if ever there was a situation to make me rethink that, this is it.

I need a shower. And wine. And a hug from my 19 year old teenincy preemie baby.

^ This.

That was my experience too. The NICU was was quiet and calm. There were no TVs there at all. The lighting was dim and voices were encourage to be hushed. The staff were caring, compassionate and if the parents couldn't be there, they would cuddle, talk to, stroke the babies.

[margiebargie]

My preemie was only 2 months early thanks to my docs, but she was very small. Babybargie was in the NICU for over a month. The staff was fantastic. I was very sick for the first week or so. The first time I visited her in the NICU I was wheeled in on a stretcher. My husband spent quite a bit of time in the NICU on his own. There were 3 male nurses there who showed him the ropes, told him what to expect, taught him to care for her, and just made him feel comfortable. There were quite a few dads in that situation. The nurses were a great help to me as well. Can't say enough.

I was in the NICU a lot. I didn't have paid maternity leave, but I was fortunate that I could afford to take a few months off. The parents of each child visited frequently. They couldn't stay for hours and hours. They had to work, had to care for other kids. I don't know how they did it all, but they did. There were a couple of babies from another country. There was one very young teen mom who had to take several buses to get there. I saw people who overcame tremendous obstacles to come see their babies and make sure they got proper care.

Just wanted to counteract the "nurses and parents don't care" bullshit with my own field observations.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[dawbs]

Thanks for the cite. I was thinking the youngest I'd ever heard of was 22 weeks (and that was huge news) so that just confirms.

Was anyone else thinking of the old stories of couples who would be married 7 months and have a 'premature' 10 lb baby?

Like...there possibly there's a reason they 'nudged' a due date one direction ?

[Zoom]

My sister has two friends who both had preemie twins born around week 26 (I can't remember the exact dates). In one of the cases the twins were split up and sent to different hospitals (one was MUCH sicker than the other). My sister did a lot of the kangaroo care for the "healthier" one as the parents were at the other hospital with the sick one, or at home with their older child who was six at the time and very scared and worried. Of the four babies I "know" who were born AFTER this one was supposed to have been born the outcome right now is as follows: 1 died, 1 healthy, 2 in some way "hurt" from being born so early. I too call bullshit on this story.

[maybeizfundie]

I have no idea about the rest of the story. But, I do have a cousin who was born at 24 weeks 20 years ago, and she survived. Some developmental/learning difficulties, but otherwise fine. So timing wise, it is possible, even that long ago.

[fundiefan]

I call bullshit on anything Doug puts on his blog. He is a tool, as we all know. He is also so open with his agenda and hatred of all that isn't in line with him. He is not at all above making shit up and not checking facts and believing drama just because it supports his cause. He's not exactly an unbiased source when it comes to something he has taken on as an 'issue'.

In short, Doug Phillips lies, manipulates, omits and twists to make everything he encounters fit into his fucked up world view.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I really have nothing to add. Everyone else has covered it. However, I noticed that Doug Phillips is a tool.

[SoybeanQueen]

I, too, had a preemie baby. She was born 10.5 years ago. I was able to stay with her most of the time, only leaving for shift changes and showering. The nurses were professional and not super-gushy, but I didn't find any of them to be uncaring.

I take particular issue with these people assuming the other parents abandoned their children. The hospital my daughter was born in had a regional higher-level NICU. We were lucky to live in the city with that hospital. There were only two hospitals with a high-level NICU in my state at that time. Both were on the east side of the state. If my family had lived on the west side, we would have been hours away from our daughter.

Many NICU families decide to go back to work while their child is still in the hospital. If you only have so much leave from work, would you rather take it to sit in the hospital, or save it for the day when your baby finally comes home? I agree, it was sad to see so many babies with no one visiting them, but families have to make the best decision they can on things like that. I was the only one on my daughter's NICU floor who got to stay there daily.

Also, some friends of ours had a 25-week preemie last fall. Even in 2011, a baby at that gestational age is extremely fragile. He did not make it. He lived for just a few days, even with some of the best medical care available.

[pixydust]

My daughter was a 35 weeker (so not to terribly early, she never had to go to the NICU-just one night in a warmer) and she had the same "look" as the baby in those pics, but skinnier. Like others said, that isn't what a micro preemie looks like, even if she was 10 weeks old or so (so adjusted to about a 35 weeker), micro preemies keep that "preemie" look for a long time (look at Josie Duggar).

Some of the stuff in the letter is just stupid "fingernails the size of a grain of sand" WTF? So the size of this > . Uh, no. Their story, without embellishment, probably would have been a good enough story, but to add stuff to make it more interesting? Now I just want to smack the snot out of them!!

[Witsec7]

A quick and short reply:

Hugh martinhughco@gmail.com

9:43 AM (34 minutes ago)

to me

The story is all true. Anyone is welcome to believe it or not.

On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Amil Zola myemailaddresswrote:

I was surprised to see your letter to Doug Phillips regarding Olivia's birth on Doug Phillips Vision Forum website. I find it hard to believe that with your diverse background (which is similar to mine) you would be supporting the Vision Forum or that Doug would even accept you as a supporter without an out right testimonial with regards to being saved and accepting his particular brand of religion and cult like lifestyle.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

A quick and short reply:

Quite the dodge there !

Did you press her on why she's involved with VF in the first place?

[Hane]

A quick and short reply:

Is it just me, or does the "Hugh Martin" above seem like an attention whore of Doug's ilk? One man might be a New-Agey-hippie type, and the other a patriarchal fundie, but they are alike in furthering their own "look at how RIGHT I am" agendas.

[Witsec7]

Quite the dodge there !

Did you press her on why she's involved with VF in the first place?

Oh shit, I'm sorry I just got up and checked my email and haven't had my coffee yet. My C&P was incomplete, I've added he total of my email. Apologies. The part I missed is bolded. I must have coffee.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Kaye had already lost two babies at birth and six from miscarriages, so I was pretty sure this one was a goner.

...who the hell talks like that about a wanted pregnancy?

[desertvixen]

...who the hell talks like that about a wanted pregnancy?

I was reading it as him trying to distance himself from things in the event that things did go badly.

What strikes me as off is this:

They have four older children in addition to the 2 deaths/6 miscarriages, so the preemie the letter purports to be about is the mother's 13th pregnancy. The way he writes initially seems to me like they had all the issues in a row - so why isn't the mother under some sort of medical care?

I agree with the previous poster who said that he might be more akin to Dougie under the skin, just in a different cause.

[Witsec7]

It all stinks like rotten fish. I'd posted the FJ link to see if he would come out of the woodwork.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

It all stinks like rotten fish. I'd posted the FJ link to see if he would come out of the woodwork.

I love it. Come on, Tool Phillips, come over and play... :lol:

[Hane]

I love it. Come on, Tool Phillips, come over and play... :lol:

Waiting for our take on this story to be eviscerated in Dougland...

ETA that I'm now a proud Purity Baller! Yee ha!

[Hane]

Here's a link to the NRL site and their letter. Please note the photos of the baby in the link.

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/ ... t-to-life/

And please note that it begins, "Dear friends..." The Tool's version begins, "Dear Doug..." Doug, you are a fucking liar. You appropriated this questionable story and posted it as if these folks sought you out.

You, Doug the Tool, are a lying liar who lies.

[Witsec7]

Congrats on your new status Hane!!

[CrazySister]

I love it. Come on, Tool Phillips, come over and play... :lol:

This calls for:

[Witsec7]

I think Hugh doesn't grasp Douggies philosophy. Hugh is probably a single issue guy, he doesn't realize that Douggie would prefer to have him stoned for his philosophy of personal growth, his experiences at Esalen and his adultery. And I think Hugh's brain may be a bit fried from all the drugs, he is getting up there in years after all.

[Elle]

As far as Kaye being the only parent in the NICU ~ more bullshit. Everyone that I have ever known with a preemie baby has spent every second they can next to that baby's incubator.

Kaye seems to think there is no reason ever for the parents to not be there every second of the day. Some moms have other children she can't leave for long periods (not hard to realize that child care for months on end is a lot more expensive than child care for the few days a mom can expect to be in the hospital when things go as planned), and sometimes the hospital won't allow parents to visit all day every day (I mentioned already my mom was only allowed every four hours, and that was for feeding, and the reason was because there was nothing she could do while I was under lights and she could be in the way). Parents may be there every second they can, but they can't always be there 24/7. Kaye's presumption that no one cared about those babies if full of self-righteous conceit and fuckery.