The Preemie Story On Doug's Blog

[Witsec7]

Very interesting indeed! Wonder if Dougie knows any of this?

And how do you know these are the same people in Douggies story?

edited to add:

I'm trying to find the linkage, the geography sounds ok. The story Douggie relates is posted on the National Right to Life web page. I can't figure out how these two Esalen freeks could have been so transformed. Eh stranger things have happened.

last edit:

Damn eyes I found it:

Throughout that time, Kaye and I have continued to live life on the edge – as if each new experience might be our last. We have suffered and rejoiced through 13 pregnancies – including numerous miscarriages and two baby boys that died at birth – and finally birthed and raised five lovely and talented children. Our last was a one-pound preemie that doctors gave up for lost – a tiny girl who has now grown to a vibrant and gifted teenager. As Bonnie Raitt sings:

[Peas n carrots]

And how do you know these are the same people in Douggies story?

edited to add:

I'm trying to find the linkage, the geography sounds ok. The story Douggie relates is posted on the National Right to Life web page. I can't figure out how these two Esalen freeks could have been so transformed. Eh stranger things have happened.

If you scroll down they mention having a 20 week old preemie and 6 miscarriages/2 stillbirths

[Witsec7]

If you scroll down they mention having a 20 week old preemie and 6 miscarriages/2 stillbirths

Yea I re-edited my post but you got here before my edit was up. Thanks!

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Throughout that time, Kaye and I have continued to live life on the edge – as if each new experience might be our last. We have suffered and rejoiced through 13 pregnancies – including numerous miscarriages and two baby boys that died at birth – and finally birthed and raised five lovely and talented children. Our last was a one-pound preemie that doctors gave up for lost – a tiny girl who has now grown to a vibrant and gifted teenager. As Bonnie Raitt sings:

They sound so cavalier about 8 failed pregnancies and a preemie.

They strike me as thrill-seekers, religiously as well as in their hobbies, so maybe the Esalen and the VF were just phases that they went through.

[PennySycamore]

I call BS, too.

I had premie at ~26 weeks almost 25 years ago. Katherine weighed 900 grams which is just under 2 pounds. We were encouraged to be in the NICU as much as possible. The NICU had a minimal stimulation protocol for the most vulnerable premies. The nurses covered over Katherine's incubator with blankets to shield her from the bright lights. There were rockers for when the babies were stable enough to be rocked. We were also encouraged to bring in stuffed toys to place in the incubator as they were found to encourage growth in premies. My sister-in-law had been a RN in the NICU at University of Washington Hospital and they had done the toy thing there 8 years earlier. Even though I lived about 5 minutes away from the hospital, I was only able to visit for a couple of hours in the evening and for a bit longer on the weekend as I had older kids that had to cared for. I'd heard about kangaroo care and one of the OTs had just attended a workshop on kangaroo'ing. They instituted it a few years after Katherine was discharged.

The article of the Martins' about the Esalen Institute reminds me a lot of why I let my subscription to Mothering lapse. There was in article in the Fall'88 issue about a mom's experience in the NICU. She said that she needed to be in the NICU practically 24/7 cause the nurses wouldn't care for her baby otherwise.

Did it strike anyone else as odd that she mentions all the TVs? There was a TV in the parents' waiting room, but there weren't any in the NICU itself. (Just saw Katie Scarlett's post.)

[debrand]

The Martins don't seem like people that would like Doug or people that he would like.

[Witsec7]

They sound so cavalier about 8 failed pregnancies and a preemie.

They strike me as thrill-seekers, religiously as well as in their hobbies, so maybe the Esalen and the VF were just phases that they went through.

Here's a link to the NRL site and their letter. Please note the photos of the baby in the link.

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/ ... t-to-life/

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Here's a link to the NRL site and their letter. Please note the photos of the baby in the link.

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/ ... t-to-life/

The baby in the picture looks like my offspring did when they were born at approximately 35 weeks. Micropreemies look totally different.

[debrand]

Here's a link to the NRL site and their letter. Please note the photos of the baby in the link.

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/ ... t-to-life/

Even I know that baby is not a five month premie. What the hell is wrong with these people? Don't they know realize that a lie like that will be caught? I'm not saying that their child wasn't early but not as early as they claim

http://article.wn.com/view/2011/09/28/P ... obstacles/

Above is a link to some photos of premature infants.

[PennySycamore]

The baby in the picture looks like my offspring did when they were born at approximately 35 weeks. Micropreemies look totally different.

What Glass Cowcatcher said.

I could not exit that site quickly enough.

[kb2]

Here's a link to the NRL site and their letter. Please note the photos of the baby in the link.

http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/ ... t-to-life/

Oh, you mean that way more than 1lb baby in the "Birth Photos," the one who's breathing on its own and wearing clothes and being held?

For three months, Kaye sat at Olivia’s side by the incubator — cooing to her, caressing her, giving her that “will to live†which is at least as important as all the marvels of modern technology.

I hate statements like this because of the opposite dichotomy--so those babies who didn't make it didn't have a will to live? They just didn't have parents who loved them enough to give them that will? Oh, that's cool, you're not a jerk at all. No, no, your baby lived all because of you, and not because you got a little lucky. Other babies died because their parents did something wrong, not because they got a little unlucky. Fuck you.

ETA: Because it seems like there are so many ways to say, "I thought it was important to be with my child," without saying, "Everyone else who did something different from me made it less likely their child would make it."

[Witsec7]

So I'm of the opinion that Hugh and Kaye have no affiliation with Douggie except that H&K sent a letter to NRL, and Douggie got a copy of it in some NRL propaganda he was using with his own constituency. I just can't see these peyote eating free love hippies from Esalen completely buying his program.I can see them buying into the myth of their miracle baby.

Dear Friends: Eighteen years ago I received this letter in response to work I was then involved in with home educators in opposition to the Clinton agenda against the family:

[Glass Cowcatcher]

So I'm of the opinion that Hugh and Kaye have no affiliation with Douggie except that H&K sent a letter to NRL, and Douggie got a copy of it in some NRL propaganda he was using with his own constituency. I just can't see these peyote eating free love hippies from Esalen completely buying his program.I can see them buying into the myth of their miracle baby.

Speculating on what's inbetween the lines, maybe they were unschoolers, the so-far-left-they're-right types, and the letter was appropriated.

[Witsec7]

Speculating on what's inbetween the lines, maybe they were unschoolers, the so-far-left-they're-right types, and the letter was appropriated.

I'd love to think that Douggie met them all nekid in the tubs at Esalen. :lol:

Perhaps tomorrow after my espresso I'll drop Hugh a note and ask him about his relationship with Douggie. Hell I might just use my 'real' email.

[Childless]

If you scroll down they mention having a 20 week old preemie and 6 miscarriages/2 stillbirths

Ok, I call bullshit. They had a 20 week old preemie? I've never heard of a 20 weeker that has survived. I have a friend who has lost her last two pregnancies at 20 weeks. When she started labor early, the doctors said the babies would not survive. They didn't even consider the possibility because no 20 weeker has ever survived.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I'd love to think that Douggie met them all nekid in the tubs at Esalen. :lol:

Perhaps tomorrow after my espresso I'll drop Hugh a note and ask him about his relationship with Douggie. Hell I might just use my 'real' email.

I'd bet he didn't really bother to fact check, just used the letter for propaganda.

If you get a reply, please do share.

[formergothardite]

Isn't it that with tiny preemies you can't really touch them because their skin is so delicate? So the whole sitting next to her carressing her skin would have caused more harm if the baby really was born that early. Or am I wrong with that?

[Witsec7]

I'm a sharing kind of dame :D

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Isn't it that with tiny preemies you can't really touch them because their skin is so delicate? So the whole sitting next to her carressing her skin would have caused more harm if the baby really was born that early. Or am I wrong with that?

I believe it is also discouraged because they are so prone to infections.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I also keep forgetting to point this out, but if the lady has had 8 failed pregnancies, there's probably something medically wrong with her, yet that doesn't figure into either story.

[PennySycamore]

Isn't it that with tiny preemies you can't really touch them because their skin is so delicate? So the whole sitting next to her carressing her skin would have caused more harm if the baby really was born that early. Or am I wrong with that?

That's true. I think before about 22 weeks the skin is gelatinous. It's quite fragile after that for a few weeks. I remember my premie had no nipples, her eyelids were still sealed shut, and she had so much lanugo she looked a bit like a baby monkey.

[SealFan1963]

That's true. I think before about 22 weeks the skin is gelatinous. It's quite fragile after that for a few weeks. I remember my premie had no nipples, her eyelids were still sealed shut, and she had so much lanugo she looked a bit like a baby monkey.

When my husband was an x-ray tech, he used to do x-rays on these little ones to check for lung growth, etc. The NICU nurses loved him because he could move the babies and x-ray them without causes their stats to become unstable. Among the general hospital staff these very early preemies are referred to affectionately as 'monkey babies' because of what PennySycamore described.

On the other hand, my daughter was full-term and she was close to being a 'monkey baby' that kid had dark hair on her ears, shoulders, back, etc. :)

[CanadianHippie]

That's true. I think before about 22 weeks the skin is gelatinous. It's quite fragile after that for a few weeks. I remember my premie had no nipples, her eyelids were still sealed shut, and she had so much lanugo she looked a bit like a baby monkey.

:naughty: Noticing monkey like traits in a human of any age is worse than abortion!

[MrsKay]

When my membranes ruptured at 22 weeks + days with BoyKay, I was pressured to abort - that part of the story doesn't strike me as false right away. I was also denied a c-section until he was 24 weeks, or viable. There's a reason, though - even in 2004, there was no equipment in the NICU that could save a baby that tiny. There was nothing that could overcome lung problems in a baby that premature. GirlKay was close to being born at 26 weeks, in 1997, and even then, the prognosis was pretty crappy.

I can't begin to fathom why they'd be cavorting all over the place with her pregnancy history. I was parked on my butt within 45 minutes or less of our NICU at all times in my pregnancies with my second and third. As for parents visiting, really high-tech NICUs are generally few and far between. At our NICU, I never met a lot of the parents of my kids' "roomies", because they lived so far away. Some of them were flown in from 8 hours away. Even living a 10 minute cab ride away, I had a hard time getting there every single day. I had at least one other child to care for, and DH had to work. Of course, as others mentioned, there's also the insanity factor of the NICU. I spent many hours sitting beside a covered isolette, bored stupid. If I spent the entire day, it meant paying for food to eat while I was there, being uncomfortable with a messed up c-section incision, and tons of little things that just made it frustratingly difficult.

That baby in the photos doesn't look like it was ever a micro preemie. Have they ever seen the head shape of micro preemies after a while? The nurses in our NICU affectionately called them "toaster heads" - crude, but really, it did fit the extreme flattening of the sides of the head, and the rounding of the eye socket/orbit. Then again, we're talking about the kind of people who have full services for used Kotex.

[bananacat]

It's funny how they just assume that insurance companies are falling all over themselves to cover all these expenses for a baby which would likely not be viable if the story were true (it clearly isn't). I guess death panels are just dandy as long as it's a private insurance company denying the coverage.