The Pearls And Children's Privacy

[holothuroidea]

No offense at all. While I don't think kids that young need "the talk" at those ages, I do believe kids say 4 and up need to be told that it's not ok for anyone to touch their private parts, and to tell someone if it happens.

I never understood "the talk." Sexuality is a pretty normal part of being human, and it is such a vast subject that I cannot imagine conveying all of one's knowledge about it in one comprehensive "talk."

I also don't like saving up all information until they can understand everything and then unloading it on them all at once. It makes more sense to give them information as they become able to understand, because children's sexuality develops over time. It's not like yesterday they were asexual and today they are fully mature.

I think "the talk" is a tactic for parents who want to get the whole subject over with and never think about it again. I mean, why else would you do it like that? Do you also have "the talk" for eating, or any other normal thing that people do?

Sorry for the rant :oops: It's just a pet peeve of mine.

[Witsec7]

But if your family is the "100% together! Always!" homeschooling type, where can you even go? I just can't imagine.

This is one of the problems I see happening with Brandy's children. When will they be old enough to have their own rooms and space. With only their father leaving the home (at night only) the children are almost prisoners. The same holds true with Zoo Zoo's kids who don't have friends in the neighborhood.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Even if they can't have their own rooms, they should at minimum have their own enclosed bunks. If you ever stayed at a youth hostel, you know what I mean - you can rent a bunk that is just a bunk in a room with others but they always have curtains that you can tie to the posts or velcro or whatever it is to completely close off your little bunk area visually at least, so as long as you're silent no one needs to know what you're doing in there. Change in there, have a wank in there, whatever, plus there's lockers with keys for your stuff.

This fundie thing of "we must be able to see what you're doing at all times because you should have nothing to hide" is seriously like prison, with the observation windows in the doors and all that.

[geniebelle6901]

Why don't you just piss off and stuff it. Not one of your opinions holds water.

And how does this one not hold water? Do you not think it's important to tell young children that it's not ok to be molested?

[StarrieEyedKat]

And how does this one not hold water? Do you not think it's important to tell young children that it's not ok to be molested?

Why only 4 and up?

[FlorenceHamilton]

My parents did "the talk" with me when I was 9. I forced in on them after an older playmete told me all about puberty and procreation and a little bit about recreation.

I did not handle my on children that way. We talked about everything all the time. I answered questions at the level of the child asking. Sometimes I noticed behaviors that needed to be addressed. It was not a single talk, but more like a series of discussions that came up periodically, pretty much how other topics arose. By the time puberty came, we were through all the mechanics and were able to discuss the emotional impact of sexuality.

[holothuroidea]

And how does this one not hold water? Do you not think it's important to tell young children that it's not ok to be molested?

It doesn't hold water because telling a child "it's not ok for anyone to touch your private parts, tell someone if it happens" is not going to stop them from being molested.

Firstly, molestation isn't about private parts. It's about someone crossing a personal boundary. The best way to prevent molestation is for a child to know their boundaries, and have confidence enough to defend them. It's not enough to go tell someone after someone touches your "private parts," it first starts with your child being able to say, "I don't like you, go away!" if an anyone leers at them or touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable (even a caress on the shoulder, given the context, can feel like molestation to a child).

Furthermore, this topic deserves a whole conversation and not a blanket statement.

[holothuroidea]

My parents did "the talk" with me when I was 9. I forced in on them after an older playmete told me all about puberty and procreation and a little bit about recreation.

I did not handle my on children that way. We talked about everything all the time. I answered questions at the level of the child asking. Sometimes I noticed behaviors that needed to be addressed. It was not a single talk, but more like a series of discussions that came up periodically, pretty much how other topics arose. By the time puberty came, we were through all the mechanics and were able to discuss the emotional impact of sexuality.

That sounds ideal. I hope to do the same. :)

[geniebelle6901]

Why only 4 and up?

I was going by the ages listed in a previous post. Honestly though, I say as soon as the the child is able to understand.

[keen23]

I, I have no words for this. Who would teach kids under double digit ages, barely in their pre-teen years about sex?!? Please forgive me if this offended anybody here.

Adsaljflsajdfkjfs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry-screaming: The Pearls make me so outraged!

My 7 year old daughter came home from school very upset the other day, because she "didn't want to get puberty." Someone in her class had apparently had the talk, and was giving the information out, and puberty must have sounded like a disease. So I sat down both of my older girls for a talk- it wasn't the first time we've talked about where babies come from- a more in depth talk than we've had before. It was pretty clinical. I used the Mayo baby book.

As to sinks and toilet placements- our house was built in 2005 and in two of the bathrooms the toilet is in it's own closet, while the sinks are in the other part of the bathroom. In the master bathroom the sinks and the shower are attached directly to our bedroom without a door- just an archway to separate the two. For the kids bathroom, the toilet and tub are behind one door, and the sinks/double vanity are in the main part of the bathroom. It does make getting ready in the morning easier, because I can have two kids brushing their teeth while the third is peeing.

[Trynn]

My 7 year old daughter came home from school very upset the other day, because she "didn't want to get puberty." .

Sounds kinda like me at 9-11... I'm not sure now whether it was because I had an aversion to all things girly, that I had an intense fear of growing up, or that I just didn't want to deal with having to take the trouble to bathe and wear deodorant EVERY DAY, and I certainly didn't want to bleed every month or wear a bra. Maybe it was all of the above. Either way, my uninformedness of all things puberty did not come from my mom, Lord knows she tried! I just didn't want to hear it because "it won't happen to me.... I won't let it!"

[DarkAnts]

My first big talk was after watching my neighbors cow doing something strange.

[holothuroidea]

I didn't have much in the way of parental help, because my mom was usually unavailable for my questions or reacted very badly (she was an alcoholic and her reactions to things were not generally reasonable). She did give me some random pearls of wisdom at times when she was sober but most of my sex-ed was from school. I went to an excellent public school that started "health and hygiene" classes at 4th grade that went through to high school. I had good teachers that answered all my (very numerous) questions.

Abstinence only education makes my blood boil.

[fundiefan2012]

My friends 5 yo was molested by a babysitter's older kid. When it came out she didn't even fire the babysitter since the sitter promised it wouldn't happen again. I ant to throw up just thinking about it.Isthat something I can report to police?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

My first big talk was after watching my neighbors cow doing something strange.

This is something else interesting about all the wannabe Little House on the Prairie fundies AND the urban ultra-orthodox Jewish people who want to keep their kids "innocent" until the day of marriage, to the extent of never even mentioning body parts, while at the SAME TIME romanticizing the lives of prior generations in poor European villages.

In the times and places they're romanticizing, kids would have seen sex happening with animals. It's not THAT hard to suppose then that humans probably have something similar going on.

[dawbs]

I do think 'the talk' and forcing the issue makes some sense if your kid doesn't ask questions...

I'd sooner have been kicked in the head by a mule than ask my mom anything (and dad *still* finds it awkward when I mention breastfeeding in conversation--he was no help). Actually, that may still be the case :-P

So mom basically ahd to pin me down and force information into me.

Luckily, libraries are useful things :-P

whoever mentioned the lack of privacy for introverts--that's so key.

Growing up, that was such an issue for me--I remember shutting my door one day and *every* person in the house burst into my room at one point or another to ask me why my door was closed. Really?

(luckily, I did make *some* private spaces and had a LOT of access to outside. So even as a teenager, I'd just scramble under a fence, across a pasture, through a swamp, behind the orchard--no one would bother me there, and even my baby-sis, who was I showed everything in 'the woods' to didn't know about the area I'd go then--this tree that laid across a pond--you had to shimmy and be careful not to drop things and/or drown, but it was my spot.)

[Maggie Mae]

My parents were too embarrassed to talk about sex with me. I was given a book when I turned 11 about periods, I read it. She asked if I had any questions. I said no. She said "thank god" and left. I got my period, used some kotex, told her I got my period, and she went and bought me stuff. I learned about intercourse from reading the encyclopedia (remember those?) and "sex ed" at school was sadly lacking any actual content. I remember watching a video where a woman with a lot of tammy faye style makeup was talking about the "perfect man" being robert redford, then we filled out diagrams about parts. That was it.

Abstinence only might have been worse, but it might not have left me with residual moments of embarrassment and fear. I still have issues with standing anywhere near the isle with the condoms (what if someone sees and thinks i'm having sex?) and buying tampons (god no, i can't go to the male cashier he'll know!) and pregnancy tests (that was just annoying as safeway announces your name to everyone in line.)

[emmiedahl]

My friends 5 yo was molested by a babysitter's older kid. When it came out she didn't even fire the babysitter since the sitter promised it wouldn't happen again. I ant to throw up just thinking about it.Isthat something I can report to police?

Yes, you are morally and perhaps legally obligated to report it.

[donks]

Saw an episode of 19&C this morning that showed a bathroom. There was a shower/tub combo, toilet and sink in there., so while they may have sinks outside the bathroom at least the 1 I saw today has a sink inside too.

Now I'm just hoping they use that sink after they use the toilet *shudder*

[Black Aliss]

[quote="Beammeup"

And for me, the most powerful message I ever learned about how to handle unintentional pornography came from some Buddhist friends of mine. We walked to school together in middle school, and one day there was hardcore gay porn strewn on the sidewalk. They noticed it, realized what it was, and lifted their heads high and walked fast past it. No need for a scene. No need for fire. No hysterics. Just the lesson of quiet dignity of ignoring that which you don't need to see. I've used that lesson several times in my life.

[holothuroidea]

My friends 5 yo was molested by a babysitter's older kid. When it came out she didn't even fire the babysitter since the sitter promised it wouldn't happen again. I ant to throw up just thinking about it.Isthat something I can report to police?

Yes, you should call CPS.

[fundiefan2012]

Will do! I wasn't sure how it worked when both parents are blowing it off, but this post was just what I needed to hear.

[Talitha Cumi]

I've been reading a fantastic book about introversion, Quiet, and it finally clicked for me part of what seems so awful about these fundie families. From the lack of privacy to the concept of "tomato-staking", it might not be so awful for the extroverted child, but it'd be pure psychological misery for an introvert. As a kid, I already needed a lot of alone time, just as I do now as an adult. One of the things discussed in the book is how introversion is often treated as a character fault or essentially punished in certain cultural settings, even though introverts have a great set of strengths themselves, and that seems very true in the fundie community.

If I were an introverted Duggar, I'd be spending as much time as I could in the prayer closet. Of course, if I were one of the older girls, I wouldn't have time.

Poor Elizabeth Botkin felt ashamed of her shyness and saw it as an "excuse" for wasting time not converting the world. I'll admit that shyness is indeed a handicap in society, but it's not a failing. http://www.achristianhome org/Just_For_Young_Ladies/dedicating_the_flower_of_your_youth.htm

I can't imagine feeling guilty for failing God and my family because I wasn't out ministering at fourteen. How much does a fourteen-year-old have to teach the world anyway? :|

[Talitha Cumi]

What comes to my mind when I read about the Pearls and the woman being beaten:

That's from this book I read, I can't remember the title. Something like 'the Holy Bible'?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[samithemage]

I've always been extremely introverted. Growing up in a Duggar-like house hold would have been a nightmare. I used to be forced to play in piano recitals. During my lessons, I could play songs that I had barely practices beautifully. However, during recitals, I would shake so badly that I could hardly play a song that I'd been practicing for months. My piano teacher told me that she had never seen a student so nervous in her 40 years of teaching. I was the same way with singing or clarinet playing or public speaking. I have a great deal of musical talent and a decent amount of speach writing talent, but put me in front of an audience and I completely fall to pieces. The idea of being on display is terrifying to me like some people are scared of heights or spiders. I simply can't handle it. Growing up Duggar, I probably would have done all I could to end up in the prayer closet. It would have been a blessed relief for me.