The Pearls And Children's Privacy

[Olivia]

or if your sharing a hotel room how you have to brush your teeth in front of your mate. Ewww.

Is that really a thing for people?

I'll be giving birth in front of my mate in about a month. Rinsing and spitting in front of the man I've been with for eight years seems like no big deal to me!

[CrazySister]

I've been reading a fantastic book about introversion, Quiet, and it finally clicked for me part of what seems so awful about these fundie families. From the lack of privacy to the concept of "tomato-staking", it might not be so awful for the extroverted child, but it'd be pure psychological misery for an introvert. As a kid, I already needed a lot of alone time, just as I do now as an adult. One of the things discussed in the book is how introversion is often treated as a character fault or essentially punished in certain cultural settings, even though introverts have a great set of strengths themselves, and that seems very true in the fundie community.

+1

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

+1

+2. I'm the kind who gets physically exhausted after 2 hours at a crowded party. I'm highly sensitive and need a lot of space and quiet (one of the reasons I don' t have kids). I'm sure fundies think that this kind of thing can be "trained" out of you, but yeah...I would have been in trouble in one of those families.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Is that really a thing for people?

I'll be giving birth in front of my mate in about a month. Rinsing and spitting in front of the man I've been with for eight years seems like no big deal to me!

Yeah, I had a giggle over this one too, since my partner watched me get a rectal exam last week.

[CrazySister]

+2. I'm the kind who gets physically exhausted after 2 hours at a crowded party. I'm highly sensitive and need a lot of space and quiet (one of the reasons I don' t have kids). I'm sure fundies think that this kind of thing can be "trained" out of you, but yeah...I would have been in trouble in one of those families.

There are many reasons I doubt I'll ever have kids, but this is a huge one - they're ALWAYS there! So good to hear I'm not the only one who thinks needing considerable personal space is a valid reason to not have kids.

[rezski44]

I know this will skeeve some out but it is actually more sanitary to not have the toilet in the same room as the sink due to the microscopic spray that is created during flushing. I am glad my toothbrush ect. is not in the same room. Of course my sink area still has 2 other doors as well - one to the closet and one to the bedroom that can be closed - 3 total. I guess if the lid is closed it would help. Or not thinking about it

[CrazySister]

I know this will skeeve some out but it is actually more sanitary to not have the toilet in the same room as the sink due to the microscopic spray that is created during flushing. I am glad my toothbrush ect. is not in the same room. Of course my sink area still has 2 other doors as well - one to the closet and one to the bedroom that can be closed - 3 total. I guess if the lid is closed it would help. Or not thinking about it

Needed to go to the store today anyway but now I need to pick up a new toothbrush; I keep it in an organizer thing on the back of the toilet! Ewww!

[1004srs]

Honestly, I am a very private person. I don't use the bathroom in front of anyone and I don't like to brush my teeth in front of others.

I didn't notice who was in the room when I had my kids. I know the doctor was there, but once I started pushing it was all about me and the baby.

[thoughtful]

I've been reading a fantastic book about introversion, Quiet, and it finally clicked for me part of what seems so awful about these fundie families. From the lack of privacy to the concept of "tomato-staking", it might not be so awful for the extroverted child, but it'd be pure psychological misery for an introvert. As a kid, I already needed a lot of alone time, just as I do now as an adult. One of the things discussed in the book is how introversion is often treated as a character fault or essentially punished in certain cultural settings, even though introverts have a great set of strengths themselves, and that seems very true in the fundie community.

This.

Not to mention that, when I was a kid and a teen, I was likely to to go off into dreamland/planning, start reading something, or start dancing around the room to the latest hits on my radio while in the middle of getting dressed.

Not being able to get dressed in five minutes could be for lots of reasons. Although, sadly, I imagine that the Pearls would find the innocent reasons I listed just as heinous as masturbating.

Oh, and trying on different outfits? Only for the vain and foolish of The World, dontcha know? :roll:

[Anxious Girl]

Once during a trip to Memphis with our family, I recalled seeing on a downtown street a half-dressed woman being jerked around and slapped by a man in a pink suit.

“She’s a prostitute,†Dad told us.

So the kinds of clothes she's wearing makes her prostitute? Where in the law, not the Bible does it say that a woman is a prostitute due to the types of clothes she wears? And who is your dad to say to you that a complete stranger; a woman you didn't even meet/talk to, is a prostitute because of how much clothing covers her "modestly"?

“He’s a pimp.

You mean abuser. If you were truly people of God, you would have called 911 and helped her defend her abuser for as long as possible. Didn't Jesus accept a prostitute?

If the station carried pornography, Dad would scrape his money back off of the counter and tell the cashier that he could not buy gas there because he just noticed they promoted rape and child molestation. The cashier would look shocked, and Dad would point at the porn magazines behind him. The cashier ALWAYS looked guilty and ashamed.

The cashier probably felt ashamed for the kids about their dad telling somebody what to do about porn in front of them. I would feel ashamed for them, too.

Knowing Good and Evil—from God’s Perspective of Good

This is what frustrates me about fundies. How do only THEY know what God's persepctive/what He's telling them; and how haven't they gotten insane from it yet?

He gave us a thorough, practical explanation of reproduction. We were 8, 6, 4, and 2 years old

I, I have no words for this. Who would teach kids under double digit ages, barely in their pre-teen years about sex?!? Please forgive me if this offended anybody here.

Adsaljflsajdfkjfs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry-screaming: The Pearls make me so outraged!

[godlytomatosoup]

What comes to my mind when I read about the Pearls and the woman being beaten:

A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’ Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?

That's from this book I read, I can't remember the title. Something like 'the Holy Bible'?

[godlytomatosoup]

I, I have no words for this. Who would teach kids under double digit ages, barely in their pre-teen years about sex?!? Please forgive me if this offended anybody here.

I'm not offended, but I am confused. Lots of people would do that. My parents' policy was "if she's old enough to ask, she's old enough to be told." And my school (a public school) had a sex ed class in fourth grade. Apart from any other considerations, if you don't tell kids anything about sex, then they're much, much more vulnerable to sexual abuse.

[Julie B]

What comes to my mind when I read about the Pearls and the woman being beaten:

That's from this book I read, I can't remember the title. Something like 'the Holy Bible'?

+1

[Anxious Girl]

I'm not offended, but I am confused. Lots of people would do that. My parents' policy was "if she's old enough to ask, she's old enough to be told." And my school (a public school) had a sex ed class in fourth grade. Apart from any other considerations, if you don't tell kids anything about sex, then they're much, much more vulnerable to sexual abuse.

I understand. I just think that Mr. Pearl didn't teach his children that you shouldn't teach other kids about sex without permession from their parents; or that if your friends snitch on you to your parents about what you said repeating what your dad told; you might not be able to be friends with that person anymore. Sorry, guess I should've added an extra quote.

[thoughtful]

If the station carried pornography, Dad would scrape his money back off of the counter and tell the cashier that he could not buy gas there because he just noticed they promoted rape and child molestation. The cashier would look shocked, and Dad would point at the porn magazines behind him. The cashier ALWAYS looked guilty and ashamed.

Wonder if he ever did this after the gas was already pumped. Wouldn't put it past him.

[holothuroidea]

I, I have no words for this. Who would teach kids under double digit ages, barely in their pre-teen years about sex?!? Please forgive me if this offended anybody here.

Adsaljflsajdfkjfs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry-screaming: The Pearls make me so outraged!

I would give a "thorough, practical explanation of reproduction" to any child of mine who asked.

However, "thorough" really depends on the age of the child and what question they are asking. An 8 year old and a 2 year old should not receive the same explanation. (Also, I don't think a 2 year old would ask a question about reproduction).

If hypothetical 8 year old asked me a question and siblings were present, I would probably answer the question and expect the 6 year old to run away screaming about how gross it is, the 4 year old to completely not pay attention and the 2 year old to not understand a word I said.

I somehow doubt that's how Pearl did it. I have a feeling he got out the "God's Biology" textbook and expected all four of them to sit and listen attentively to his lecture and he probably quizzed them about it later. Because he's an asshole who doesn't let his children set their own boundaries.

ETA: I read over the context of the Pearl quote and NONE of the children asked him a question. He called them over to watch dogs having sex and then made them all sit down to a lecture. That is really out of line.

I think I would start initiating conversations about sex only if my children were conspicuously quiet on the subject (like an 8 year old who never asked where babies come from when a sibling or cousin was born, or they were going through puberty but not open about talking about it), or if there were signs of abuse. But I would approach it in a very gentle, easy, non-confrontational way, because some kids are genuinely shy about the subject and I would want to be sensitive to their boundaries while still giving them the information they need. I might even leave a note for them to read on their own time or something like that.

I really hate Michael Pearl, he completely has no respect for his children as human beings.

[Anxious Girl]

I would give a "thorough, practical explanation of reproduction" to any child of mine who asked.

However, "thorough" really depends on the age of the child and what question they are asking. An 8 year old and a 2 year old should not receive the same explanation. (Also, I don't think a 2 year old would ask a question about reproduction).

If hypothetical 8 year old asked me a question and siblings were present, I would probably answer the question and expect the 6 year old to run away screaming about how gross it is, the 4 year old to completely not pay attention and the 2 year old to not understand a word I said.

I somehow doubt that's how Pearl did it. I have a feeling he got out the "God's Biology" textbook and expected all four of them to sit and listen attentively to his lecture and he probably quizzed them about it later. Because he's an asshole who doesn't let his children set their own boundaries.

ETA: I read over the context of the Pearl quote and NONE of the children asked him a question. He called them over to watch dogs having sex and then made them all sit down to a lecture. That is really out of line.

I think I would start initiating conversations about sex only if my children were conspicuously quiet on the subject (like an 8 year old who never asked where babies come from when a sibling or cousin was born, or they were going through puberty but not open about talking about it), or if there were signs of abuse. But I would approach it in a very gentle, easy, non-confrontational way, because some kids are genuinely shy about the subject and I would want to be sensitive to their boundaries while still giving them the information they need. I might even leave a note for them to read on their own time or something like that.

I really hate Michael Pearl, he completely has no respect for his children as human beings.

Again, somebody who can explain it to me much better than I could. I could understand if a kid's curious and wants to know where their sibling came from, but don't force them to learn about sex if they didn't ask you curious questions like the above in the first place.

[godlytomatosoup]

ETA: I read over the context of the Pearl quote and NONE of the children asked him a question. He called them over to watch dogs having sex and then made them all sit down to a lecture. That is really out of line.

:shock: YUCK.

[debrand]

I'm not offended, but I am confused. Lots of people would do that. My parents' policy was "if she's old enough to ask, she's old enough to be told." And my school (a public school) had a sex ed class in fourth grade. Apart from any other considerations, if you don't tell kids anything about sex, then they're much, much more vulnerable to sexual abuse.

I agree. When my kids asked questions, I answered as truthfully as I could. My kids knew about sex at a pretty young age. However, it does seem weird that Michael Pearl called his children to the door to watch two dogs mating. His kids weren't really asking questions about the animals mating, he pointed the dogs out to them. If you have breeding animals, you're kids will have plenty of opportunity to ask you questions. It is certainly not the worst thing Michael has done and not abusive, but it is an odd way to start a conversation about sex.

[holothuroidea]

:shock: YUCK.

Yeah.

Remembering my 8 year old self, I probably would have appreciated the heads up about the dog sex and I would have had tons of questions about it. But I was openly curious like that and seeing the dogs would have been fascinating and not repulsive for me.

All children are different, some children have much tighter sexual boundaries and being forced to watch dogs having sex might even be traumatic for them. Parents have to know their kids and respect their boundaries.

The Pearls are the kind of parents that deconstruct their children's personal boundaries through beating, manipulation, shaming and lack of privacy and then build up their own "Godly" boundaries in their place. You don't need to be a genius to see the kind of horrible problems that leads to.

[debrand]

Yeah.

Remembering my 8 year old self, I probably would have appreciated the heads up about the dog sex and I would have had tons of questions about it. But I was openly curious like that and seeing the dogs would have been fascinating and not repulsive for me.

All children are different, some children have much tighter sexual boundaries and being forced to watch dogs having sex might even be traumatic for them. Parents have to know their kids and respect their boundaries.

The Pearls are the kind of parents that deconstruct their children's personal boundaries through beating, manipulation, shaming and lack of privacy and then build up their own "Godly" boundaries in their place. You don't need to be a genius to see the kind of horrible problems that leads to.

My three younger children were pretty open about sex. They asked questions and were unfazed by my answers. My older son was easily embarrassed. Watching two dogs have sex with his parent would have traumatized him. Somehow we managed to give him the information that he needed to know while respecting his boundaries.

[geniebelle6901]

I, I have no words for this. Who would teach kids under double digit ages, barely in their pre-teen years about sex?!? Please forgive me if this offended anybody here.

No offense at all. While I don't think kids that young need "the talk" at those ages, I do believe kids say 4 and up need to be told that it's not ok for anyone to touch their private parts, and to tell someone if it happens.

[Witsec7]

No offense at all. While I don't think kids that young need "the talk" at those ages, I do believe kids say 4 and up need to be told that it's not ok for anyone to touch their private parts, and to tell someone if it happens.

Why don't you just piss off and stuff it. Not one of your opinions holds water.

[Hane]

In our family, the rule has always been to answer kids' questions in a way appropriate to their ages, and not to cram superfluous information down their throats. Yesterday, my 4 1/2-year-old grandson asked me why my dog didn't have puppies. I told him it was because I didn't have a male dog to be the puppies' "dad." (He knows enough about mammals to realize that a male and a female are necessary for reproduction.) When he suggested I get a male dog for this purpose, I told him that Tippy is too old to have puppies anymore. Everything I said to him was true, but I didn't want to explain spaying to a four-year-old; it was hard enough having to explain to him why poor Tip has only one eye.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I have seen this in college dorms. I think the duggards did this so people could get ready without having to be in the actual bathroom. With so many little kids, it would be hard to only have sinks in the bathroom.

With a family the size of the Duggars, it's time for stalls in the bathroom for exactly this reason - people need privacy on the toilet, but not at the sink. Sink users can't be knocking the toilet out of commission. Sinks outside of the actual bathroom just makes the bathroom into a stall, so pretty much the same thing.

What strikes me as extra sad about these families is, if you were a normal kid who went to school and outside the house and wherever else, but with a crazy control freak family at home, it wouldn't be AS BAD just because you can find some private space outside of the house. Because you're allowed to leave the house. Stairwell of your building, whatever it is (I didn't have a control freak family like this but still quarters were tight and so I had places outside of our apartment I'd go for some quiet time - including the stairwells).

But if your family is the "100% together! Always!" homeschooling type, where can you even go? I just can't imagine.