The Pearls And Children's Privacy

[debrand]

We've discussed this on the old Free Jinger Forum but I thought it would be interesting for newbies to read.

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/safegu ... -children/

Dad built our house so that all the bedroom doors facing the main living room/family room. None of our doors had locks on them until we were older, and then only the girls. We were never allowed to spend time in our rooms behind closed doors. The door could only be closed for five minutes of clothes changing. If a door was closed for a longer period of time, Dad was likely to walk in unannounced to see what we were up to.

Thank about it. Their father would barge into their room if it took them more then five minutes to dress. That must have been humiliating.

The article also includes a description of Michael not helping a woman who was being beaten because he wanted to give his children a lesson about 'pimps' and 'prostitutes'

[WanderingStar]

This is the kind of crap that would make me try to file for legal emancipation. How do they trust any of their kids as adults? Do they come to their house and wait outside their door with an egg timer? I don't think I could even dress quickly enough if I knew I was being timed because I'd feel so nervous and angry all at once...

[CrazySister]

And to think this is "mild" compared to the BS in their books! The Pearls are vile.

[debrand]

This is the kind of crap that would make me try to file for legal emancipation. How do they trust any of their kids as adults? Do they come to their house and wait outside their door with an egg timer? I don't think I could even dress quickly enough if I knew I was being timed because I'd feel so nervous and angry all at once...

Even as an adult, there are times when I suddenly decide that I don't like a certain shirt with a pair of pants. So, I'll take of the shirt and start rummaging through my drawers and closet. When I was a teenager, I was much worse. So yeah, it would have taken me longer then five minutes to dress. As long as I got to school on time, no one cared. Of course, my mom wasn't terrified that I would masturbate. She just didn't want me to miss the bus

I am guessing that it is masturbation that Michael was hoping to stop, however, maybe he got a thrill from his kids' embarrasment.

[SealFan1963]

I am guessing that it is masturbation that Michael was hoping to stop, however, maybe he got a thrill from his kids' embarrasment.

I'm betting on this.

[holothuroidea]

Gah, I could not read that whole thing.

I cannot imagine what kind of man watches a woman being beaten, does nothing to help, and then preaches about how great he is.

I couldn't get past all the hatred about people in the sex industry and homosexuals (that they are all rapists and child molesters and deserve to have their teeth broken and be thrown in a lake of fire) to read the part about "protecting" your children from these things by allowing them zero privacy but I'm sure that was horrible as well.

[BlackHawk]

oh man.. call this a stereotypical issue, but as a gay man.. and especially a gay teen.. my outfit had to be RIGHT. Now a days if it fits I wear it because I'm not likely to go anywhere special. As a teen, I would get up a couple hours before school to shower, shave, and pick out the perfect outfit. Even if I had picked out the outfit the night before, it was never right. And on picture day... crap, you may as well assume I stayed up all night. Seriously sad, now that I look back on it, but had someone tried to set me a timer of 5 min... that just wouldn't have gone over well at all.

I can't imagine not having privacy. I understand not having a lock on a small child's door... we switched out the locking doors on the bedrooms at this house that will be our kids (though now it looks like it won't matter cause we won't be here past infancy with out first) because I don't want to have to call the locksmith to get my 2 year old out of his room. However I can't imagine being a teenager and not having a lock. We plan to allow our children to have locks if they want them (and we plan to offer it up so there is no weird questions needed), but as a kid who locked people out of places as a habit, I wouldn't let my young child have a lock. (I am that kid who locked my mom out of the house when I was about 3. No clue why I did it, it's just a fun family story. Apparently I was known for locking people out of their homes so much that no matter where I stayed, everyone took their keys even down to the mailbox with them.)

[CrazySister]

(snip) Apparently I was known for locking people out of their homes so much that no matter where I stayed, everyone took their keys even down to the mailbox with them.(snip)

Hahaha, it's OT, but that's exactly what I do when I babysit a particular kid. I can literally be letting the dogs into the dogrun (side of house) and I ALWAYS take the keys with me! :lol:

[bananacat]

There are so many control issues in these fundie families, and I think it's great to bring up this topic. It's easy to focus on the beating, but the abuse is as much psychological as it is physical. I remember bits and pieces from Razing Ruth's blog and possibly NLQ. I think this all happened to Ruth, but some of it might have happened to some other fundie. I know she had scheduled bathroom time during the day, and if she had an emergency and needed to go in between, she was expected to get explicit permission from a parent. The bathroom had a strict time limit of 5 minutes, and when someone needed to be in there for longer (for baths), they couldn't be alone in there. She had to have a sister or her mother hang out in the bathroom while she took a shower.

Then you have the Duggars with all the kids in just two giant dorms, and the girls don't even get their own beds. I think it was the Duggars who admitted to reading their children's prayer journals. There is absolutely no privacy in that house either, although I don't know if they have any specific bathroom policies. It is interesting that they have sinks outside of the bathrooms, allegedly to make it easier for the girls and women to get ready. I have wondered if the real reason is so they can't use that hair as an excuse to hide in the bathroom for 10 minutes. And the Duggars don't change clothes in their bedrooms because they keep all of the clothes in a giant family closet.

[holothuroidea]

There are so many control issues in these fundie families, and I think it's great to bring up this topic. It's easy to focus on the beating, but the abuse is as much psychological as it is physical. I remember bits and pieces from Razing Ruth's blog and possibly NLQ. I think this all happened to Ruth, but some of it might have happened to some other fundie. I know she had scheduled bathroom time during the day, and if she had an emergency and needed to go in between, she was expected to get explicit permission from a parent. The bathroom had a strict time limit of 5 minutes, and when someone needed to be in there for longer (for baths), they couldn't be alone in there. She had to have a sister or her mother hang out in the bathroom while she took a shower.

Then you have the Duggars with all the kids in just two giant dorms, and the girls don't even get their own beds. I think it was the Duggars who admitted to reading their children's prayer journals. There is absolutely no privacy in that house either, although I don't know if they have any specific bathroom policies. It is interesting that they have sinks outside of the bathrooms, allegedly to make it easier for the girls and women to get ready. I have wondered if the real reason is so they can't use that hair as an excuse to hide in the bathroom for 10 minutes. And the Duggars don't change clothes in their bedrooms because they keep all of the clothes in a giant family closet.

If I had to fold and put away that many clothes for that many people, you better believe it would all be in one room!

I think a lot of privacy problems in homes with that many children are just a logistical inevitability. The problem is that these parents seem to think that this is a good thing. I would see it as a problem that needed a solution.

I think instituting "no closed door" rules and designing your house so you can see all people at all times is way beyond the logistical issues that families like the Duggars have, it's obsessive and really bad for the kids (specifically pre-teens and teenagers).

[Glass Cowcatcher]

There are so many control issues in these fundie families, and I think it's great to bring up this topic. It's easy to focus on the beating, but the abuse is as much psychological as it is physical. I remember bits and pieces from Razing Ruth's blog and possibly NLQ... I know she had scheduled bathroom time during the day, and if she had an emergency and needed to go in between, she was expected to get explicit permission from a parent. The bathroom had a strict time limit of 5 minutes, and when someone needed to be in there for longer (for baths), they couldn't be alone in there. She had to have a sister or her mother hang out in the bathroom while she took a shower.

I think one of the commentors on NLQ even posted that her father told her he had the right to "inspect" her whenever he wanted. :o

The bathroom rules are ridiculous. I don't like my offspring to go into the bathroom unless they actually need to use it, and I had them leave the door open when they were learning to go on their own so I could make sure they washed their hands properly and stuff, but this is just beyond the pale. WTF kind of a parent makes a kid get permission for a bathroom emergency?

[doggie]

control is critical in these families. but the price are damaged adults. since a lot of these parents have never done this before they are way over zealous in their control Plus they have not yet really seen the results of this control and the ruined lives.

[Beammeup]

I shudder every time I hear these stories. They make me so ill. That father is truly an abusive asshole. And I just feel for the poor gas clerks he turned his unrighteous dominion on. Like they got to choose the magazines. But they likely are single mothers just trying to feed their kids so they deserve his wrath. (/sarcasm). I hope he ran out of gas constantly.

But I'll be honest, if I were to build my dream home, I would have a massive laundry room/closet, because I totally suck at the putting away of clothing. Everyone would have their own area and baskets etc.

And for me, the most powerful message I ever learned about how to handle unintentional pornography came from some Buddhist friends of mine. We walked to school together in middle school, and one day there was hardcore gay porn strewn on the sidewalk. They noticed it, realized what it was, and lifted their heads high and walked fast past it. No need for a scene. No need for fire. No hysterics. Just the lesson of quiet dignity of ignoring that which you don't need to see. I've used that lesson several times in my life.

eta riffle

[Elle]

I don't have a problem with teens not hang locks on their doors. No one should be barging in anyway. We never had locks growing up, but we were alto taught to knock. If you know and wait, there's no need for a lock.

Not allowing kids to be behind closed doors, especially ones without locks, is ridiculous. And five minutes to get dressed? Yeah, it's just control.

[CanadianHippie]

There is no way I would have survived in any of those houses, then or now. I always have and still do like having private time. Not explicit private time, just time for me and me alone so I can read, writer, or just think. I'd rather have a door closed than open too. It's always been like that and for the most part my parents respected that. Interestingly enough, I grew up respecting their silly quirks, even the ones I don't like.

[CanadianHippie]

I don't have a problem with teens not hang locks on their doors. No one should be barging in anyway. We never had locks growing up, but we were alto taught to knock. If you know and wait, there's no need for a lock.

Not allowing kids to be behind closed doors, especially ones without locks, is ridiculous. And five minutes to get dressed? Yeah, it's just control.

In a house where dad feels it is his right to barge into a teen girls room because she took too long to get dressed, I totally support locks on the doors! Otherwise, I agree there should be no reason to have lock because mom and dad should know they can't just bust in there.

*I also agree with a teen having a lock on their door if they have a younger sibling with an inability to respect boundaries. In high school one of my friends had a younger brother who would just barge right in no matter what just because the door was closed, he didn't listen to their parents and it made her really uncomfortable. It didn't stop until dad switched the door handle from a bathroom with the door handle on her bedroom door and gave her the ability to lock him out.

[doggie]

the thing is there are no boundaries no choice no freedom of thought or action or body. no privacy no free thoughts no emotions but joy.Where in the hell does the bible say this is the way to raise kids?

[DarkAnts]

There are so many control issues in these fundie families, and I think it's great to bring up this topic. It's easy to focus on the beating, but the abuse is as much psychological as it is physical. I remember bits and pieces from Razing Ruth's blog and possibly NLQ. I think this all happened to Ruth, but some of it might have happened to some other fundie. I know she had scheduled bathroom time during the day, and if she had an emergency and needed to go in between, she was expected to get explicit permission from a parent. The bathroom had a strict time limit of 5 minutes, and when someone needed to be in there for longer (for baths), they couldn't be alone in there. She had to have a sister or her mother hang out in the bathroom while she took a shower.

Then you have the Duggars with all the kids in just two giant dorms, and the girls don't even get their own beds. I think it was the Duggars who admitted to reading their children's prayer journals. There is absolutely no privacy in that house either, although I don't know if they have any specific bathroom policies. It is interesting that they have sinks outside of the bathrooms, allegedly to make it easier for the girls and women to get ready. I have wondered if the real reason is so they can't use that hair as an excuse to hide in the bathroom for 10 minutes. And the Duggars don't change clothes in their bedrooms because they keep all of the clothes in a giant family closet.

I have seen this in college dorms. I think the duggards did this so people could get ready without having to be in the actual bathroom. With so many little kids, it would be hard to only have sinks in the bathroom.

[donks]

BlackHawk wrote: " because I don't want to have to call the locksmith to get my 2 year old out of his room."

Little tip: roll a handtowel up and place it over the top of the door. It won't close all the way, so no locked-in screaming toddler! ;)

[Tanaqui]

BlackHawk wrote: " because I don't want to have to call the locksmith to get my 2 year old out of his room."

Little tip: roll a handtowel up and place it over the top of the door. It won't close all the way, so no locked-in screaming toddler! ;)

Also, many indoor locks have the little pinhole that allows you to unlock from the other side. I had a locking door when I was a teen and would often lock it when we had young guests (ex. my wild little cousins) and would use a bent paper clip to get back in when they were gone.

[bananacat]

I have seen this in college dorms. I think the duggards did this so people could get ready without having to be in the actual bathroom. With so many little kids, it would be hard to only have sinks in the bathroom.

This is the reason they claim, but taken in context, I'm not inclined to believe them. If it were just about getting ready, why the sink? Why not just use mirrors on the wall? I don't get ready in my bathroom, and I don't have a sink anywhere else (except the kitchen). And I don't spend very much time in the bathroom in spite of having a sink there.

[bananacat]

Also, many indoor locks have the little pinhole that allows you to unlock from the other side. I had a locking door when I was a teen and would often lock it when we had young guests (aka my wild little cousins) and would use a bent paper clip to get back in when they were gone.

Yeah, I always have a lock on my door, but it was easy enough to open from the outside with a lollipop stick. It doesn't give you absolute privacy, but at least it can give you warning. If your creepy father is about to barge in on you naked, you'll hear him fiddling out there and can at least grab a bathrobe in the meantime. Of course I never had that problem because my parents were respectful of my privacy. Around puberty I started closing my door, and they would always knock before entering. If I told them to wait a minute (so I could finish getting dressed), they would respect that. But on the other hand, my parents didn't think masturbation was a sin (and that's what I was doing frequently behind that locked door).

I just think kids should be treated with respect. Parents earn respect by treating their kids like human beings, not by beating them constantly. Obviously kids aren't adults, but I know I wouldn't want someone to barge in on me without knocking, so I would try not to do that to a kid unless it was a special circumstance.

[MamaJunebug]

Japanese-American women who were interned at camps during World War II found themselves with communal bathrooms that provided a row of toilets without any partitions for privacy. One woman's mother and her friends found cardboard cartons that they rigged into walls and doors around the pots and thus got preserved some of their dignity.

I mention this because it seems that denying privacy for basic private moments is not confined to abusive (yes the Pearls are) parents, but to abusive masters of any type, especially those who aim to break their captives' wills or strip them of their inherent human dignity.

Oh, MIchael and Debi, you must be so proud of yourselves.

[debrand]

Japanese-American women who were interned at camps during World War II found themselves with communal bathrooms that provided a row of toilets without any partitions for privacy. One woman's mother and her friends found cardboard cartons that they rigged into walls and doors around the pots and thus got preserved some of their dignity.

I mention this because it seems that denying privacy for basic private moments is not confined to abusive (yes the Pearls are) parents, but to abusive masters of any type, especially those who aim to break their captives' wills or strip them of their inherent human dignity.

Oh, MIchael and Debi, you must be so proud of yourselves.

That is chilling but accurate comparison. The Pearls train their children to not expect human dignity or respect.

[hoipolloi]

That is chilling but accurate comparison. The Pearls train their children to not expect human dignity or respect.

Exactly. Pearl child torture training = setting kids up to be abuse victims.

I've wondered for some time now what really went on in the Pearl home such that Michael is/was so obsessed with controlling his daughters' (normally) private activities like changing clothes.